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401K withdrawal transfer to checking

 
 
Bill R
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      10-16-2005, 06:05 PM
I am withdrawing money from my TIAA-CREF 403B pension accounts
and transferring it to my checking account. Both the pension and
the checking accounts are set up in my Quicken 2005 Deluxe R4.

When I do the transfer from the Quicken TIAA-CREF accounts to the
checking, I have to indicate the transfer account INSTEAD of the
category. [In Quicken, a transfer between accounts CANNOT have a
category! This is explicitly stated in the Help pages.]

I would like to have Quicken categorize the withdrawals in the
category "_401K withdrawal" so that this shows up as income.

How can I do this and still do the direct transfer between accounts
(which is what happens in the real world, i.e., direct deposit)?

In my Quicken checking account after the transfer, I tried over-riding
the "Transfer from/to" category for the full transfer amount with the
"_401K withdrawal", but this action completely screws up (somehow
deletes) the transfer out of the Quicken TIAA-CREF account.

Bill R

 
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John Pollard
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      10-16-2005, 07:41 PM
Bill R wrote:
> I am withdrawing money from my TIAA-CREF 403B pension accounts
> and transferring it to my checking account. Both the pension
> and
> the checking accounts are set up in my Quicken 2005 Deluxe R4.
>
> When I do the transfer from the Quicken TIAA-CREF accounts to
> the
> checking, I have to indicate the transfer account INSTEAD of
> the
> category. [In Quicken, a transfer between accounts CANNOT have
> a
> category! This is explicitly stated in the Help pages.]
>
> I would like to have Quicken categorize the withdrawals in the
> category "_401K withdrawal" so that this shows up as income.


Quicken already does this. Look at your Tax Summary report.
And if you assign _401kwithdrawal to the correct tax line, you
will also find the withdrawal in the Tax Schedule report.

> How can I do this and still do the direct transfer between
> accounts
> (which is what happens in the real world, i.e., direct
> deposit)?
>
> In my Quicken checking account after the transfer, I tried
> over-riding
> the "Transfer from/to" category for the full transfer amount
> with the
> "_401K withdrawal", but this action completely screws up
> (somehow
> deletes) the transfer out of the Quicken TIAA-CREF account.


A transfer already contains a category; an account in square
brackets *is* a category. You just can not apply a non-transfer
category to the same transaction. Transfers *can* show up as
income ... where is it you are expecting to see them show up as
income? How about in Income/Expense report? If you just
"include all" transfers, you can see that FROM account
categories are treated as income. You will have to work out
for yourself what transfers should appear in which of your
reports.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup


 
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JM
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      10-16-2005, 08:02 PM

Bill R wrote:
> I am withdrawing money from my TIAA-CREF 403B pension accounts
> and transferring it to my checking account. Both the pension and
> the checking accounts are set up in my Quicken 2005 Deluxe R4.
>
> When I do the transfer from the Quicken TIAA-CREF accounts to the
> checking, I have to indicate the transfer account INSTEAD of the
> category. [In Quicken, a transfer between accounts CANNOT have a
> category! This is explicitly stated in the Help pages.]
>
> I would like to have Quicken categorize the withdrawals in the
> category "_401K withdrawal" so that this shows up as income.
>
> How can I do this and still do the direct transfer between accounts
> (which is what happens in the real world, i.e., direct deposit)?
>
> In my Quicken checking account after the transfer, I tried over-riding
> the "Transfer from/to" category for the full transfer amount with the
> "_401K withdrawal", but this action completely screws up (somehow
> deletes) the transfer out of the Quicken TIAA-CREF account.
>
> Bill R



The key here is to do the transfers just as you are doing. You get the
withdrawals to report as taxable income by setting the tax attributes
of the retirement account.

Goto the summary view of the retirement account.
In the account attributes section, click on options and select 'Set Tax
Attributes'
Set 'Transfers Out:' to '1099-R:Total IRA taxable distribution'.

You can check results by running QW's Tax Schedule Report.
Withdrawals will report under the 1099-R header.

Do you have taxes with-held on these withdrawals?

 
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Ron
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      10-16-2005, 09:56 PM

"John Pollard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:C1y4f.491529$xm3.180254@attbi_s21...
> Bill R wrote:
>> I am withdrawing money from my TIAA-CREF 403B pension accounts
>> and transferring it to my checking account. Both the pension and
>> the checking accounts are set up in my Quicken 2005 Deluxe R4.
>>
>> When I do the transfer from the Quicken TIAA-CREF accounts to the
>> checking, I have to indicate the transfer account INSTEAD of the
>> category. [In Quicken, a transfer between accounts CANNOT have a
>> category! This is explicitly stated in the Help pages.]
>>
>> I would like to have Quicken categorize the withdrawals in the
>> category "_401K withdrawal" so that this shows up as income.

>
> Quicken already does this. Look at your Tax Summary report. And if you
> assign _401kwithdrawal to the correct tax line, you will also find the
> withdrawal in the Tax Schedule report.
>


........snip.......

Let me ask a question that perhaps takes this discussion to another level.
I have *after-tax* contributions in my 401k (along with the before-tax
contributions and company matches.) I left that company some years before
starting to use Quicken, so I've simply set up the account to reflect the
component funds and record dividend reinvestments, etc., as they occur. But
I've not yet made a withdrawal. The tax category I have assigned to
transfers out is "1099R gross withdrawal." Will Quicken properly be able to
deal with the fact that a percentage of that first withdrawal (or maybe all
of it - I gotta bone up on the IRS requirements) will be after tax funds?
Is there a way I can re-constitute the account setup to recognize the fact
that a portion of the assets are after-tax? (I know the total after-tax
percentage from my online account statement, but not how it is apportioned
among each fund.) I use Q2005P, and I don't see a treatment of this
particular situation in the help file.

Thanks, Ron

 
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JM
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      10-16-2005, 10:19 PM
<snip>
>
> Let me ask a question that perhaps takes this discussion to another level.
> I have *after-tax* contributions in my 401k (along with the before-tax
> contributions and company matches.) I left that company some years before
> starting to use Quicken, so I've simply set up the account to reflect the
> component funds and record dividend reinvestments, etc., as they occur. But
> I've not yet made a withdrawal. The tax category I have assigned to
> transfers out is "1099R gross withdrawal." Will Quicken properly be able to
> deal with the fact that a percentage of that first withdrawal (or maybe all
> of it - I gotta bone up on the IRS requirements) will be after tax funds?
> Is there a way I can re-constitute the account setup to recognize the fact
> that a portion of the assets are after-tax? (I know the total after-tax
> percentage from my online account statement, but not how it is apportioned
> among each fund.) I use Q2005P, and I don't see a treatment of this
> particular situation in the help file.
>
> Thanks, Ron



The after-tax portion of the account is the exact amount that you
contributed. This is the cumulative total that will be withdrawn
tax-free. All pre-tax contributions and all earnings (on pre-tax and
aft-tax contributions) are co-mingled and taxable as ordinary income on
withdrawal.

I do not know how the withdrawals of the aft-tax funds are handled - a
ratio, first out, your choice, or ???

There is no provision for allocating between aft-tax and pre-tax in the
QW account. I have used a class 'AT' to track the aft-tax
contributions; i.e., aft-tax contributions to the account were entered
as '[<retirement acct>]/AT'. This was the easiest way I found to keep
track of these contributions.

 
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Bill R
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      10-16-2005, 11:39 PM
Thanks, JM, for your suggestions.

I do have the 'Transfers Out' of the retirement accounts set to
'1099-R: Total Pension taxable distributions' (rather than IRA,
since the TIAA-CREF accounts are not technically IRAs).

And indeed on QW's Tax Schedule Report, the withdrawals do show
up under the 1099-R header. So this is working OK for me.

I did find out that my problem was that in the Income/Expense
Report I did not have these retirement accounts checked to be
included, nor did I have transfers included (on the Advanced
tab). However correcting this cures one problem but introduces
another which I will describe separately.

Both federal and state taxes are withheld on my pension
withdrawals. I put the correct amount of tax in the correct
category after I get the gross withdrawal amount transferred
over to my checking account.

Bill R

JM wrote:
> Bill R wrote:
>
>>I am withdrawing money from my TIAA-CREF 403B pension accounts
>>and transferring it to my checking account. Both the pension and
>>the checking accounts are set up in my Quicken 2005 Deluxe R4.
>>
>>When I do the transfer from the Quicken TIAA-CREF accounts to the
>>checking, I have to indicate the transfer account INSTEAD of the
>>category. [In Quicken, a transfer between accounts CANNOT have a
>>category! This is explicitly stated in the Help pages.]
>>
>>I would like to have Quicken categorize the withdrawals in the
>>category "_401K withdrawal" so that this shows up as income.
>>
>>How can I do this and still do the direct transfer between accounts
>>(which is what happens in the real world, i.e., direct deposit)?
>>
>>In my Quicken checking account after the transfer, I tried over-riding
>>the "Transfer from/to" category for the full transfer amount with the
>>"_401K withdrawal", but this action completely screws up (somehow
>>deletes) the transfer out of the Quicken TIAA-CREF account.
>>
>>Bill R

>
>
>
> The key here is to do the transfers just as you are doing. You get the
> withdrawals to report as taxable income by setting the tax attributes
> of the retirement account.
>
> Goto the summary view of the retirement account.
> In the account attributes section, click on options and select 'Set Tax
> Attributes'
> Set 'Transfers Out:' to '1099-R:Total IRA taxable distribution'.
>
> You can check results by running QW's Tax Schedule Report.
> Withdrawals will report under the 1099-R header.
>
> Do you have taxes with-held on these withdrawals?
>


 
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Bill R
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      10-17-2005, 12:36 AM
Yes, I was looking at the Income/Expense Report (and also at the Cash Flow
Report) and expecting to see the pension distributions. My problem was that in
the customize options for these reports my two pension accounts were NOT
checked to be included and transfers between accounts were excluded (under
the Advanced tab). So naturally these withdrawals did not display in these reports.

However, the pension withdrawals still are NOT automatically included in the
Tax Planner under Other Income for the current year. I have to manually insert
the correct amount of withdrawals to get the Tax Planner to come out right. When
I click on the "View tax items used here" for the pension income, it does correctly
show "1099-R: Total pension taxable distributions" and "_401K withdrawal". But
somehow the amount doesn't get automatically included in the Tax Planner.
Therefore something is still not being done correctly either by me or QW.
The pension withdrawals do show up under the 1099-R header in the Tax
Summary Report.

In the Income/Expense Report, after including my two pension accounts and
including transfers in my customization options, my pension distributions do show
up as transfer income (although not explicitly as a _401K withdrawal). However,
my *income* also shows the *payment* I made from my checking account to my
credit card account, even though it is really negative income! (But I suppose it is
positive income to the credit card account).

Thanks for your help, John,
Bill R

--------------------------------------
John Pollard wrote:
> Bill R wrote:
>
>>I am withdrawing money from my TIAA-CREF 403B pension accounts
>>and transferring it to my checking account. Both the pension
>>and
>>the checking accounts are set up in my Quicken 2005 Deluxe R4.
>>
>>When I do the transfer from the Quicken TIAA-CREF accounts to
>>the
>>checking, I have to indicate the transfer account INSTEAD of
>>the
>>category. [In Quicken, a transfer between accounts CANNOT have
>>a
>>category! This is explicitly stated in the Help pages.]
>>
>>I would like to have Quicken categorize the withdrawals in the
>>category "_401K withdrawal" so that this shows up as income.

>
>
> Quicken already does this. Look at your Tax Summary report.
> And if you assign _401kwithdrawal to the correct tax line, you
> will also find the withdrawal in the Tax Schedule report.
>
>
>>How can I do this and still do the direct transfer between
>>accounts
>>(which is what happens in the real world, i.e., direct
>>deposit)?
>>
>>In my Quicken checking account after the transfer, I tried
>>over-riding
>>the "Transfer from/to" category for the full transfer amount
>>with the
>>"_401K withdrawal", but this action completely screws up
>>(somehow
>>deletes) the transfer out of the Quicken TIAA-CREF account.

>
>
> A transfer already contains a category; an account in square
> brackets *is* a category. You just can not apply a non-transfer
> category to the same transaction. Transfers *can* show up as
> income ... where is it you are expecting to see them show up as
> income? How about in Income/Expense report? If you just
> "include all" transfers, you can see that FROM account
> categories are treated as income. You will have to work out
> for yourself what transfers should appear in which of your
> reports.
>


 
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JM
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      10-17-2005, 01:09 AM
Did a little more digging on the distribution issue. Appears the
distribution will be a combination of aft-tax and pre-tax. Would guess
this goes on until the aft-tax portion is fully distributed. This
thread gives some insight:

http://tinyurl.com/9zrlj

I retired an did a roll-over of my 401k in 2001. I was issued a check
(no tax liability) for the aft-tax portion - exactly in the amount of
my aft-tax contributions. The remainder of the account rolled into
another tax-deferred account.

The tax laws were changed in 2003 and apparently now permit including
the aft-tax portion in the rollover if so desired. You file some form
to report the relative values on rollover. Perusing several related
threads, it appears that it is your responsibility to keep track of the
cumulative aft-tax distributions when you file your yearly tax forms.

 
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Ron
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      10-17-2005, 02:49 AM

"JM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> Did a little more digging on the distribution issue. Appears the
> distribution will be a combination of aft-tax and pre-tax. Would guess
> this goes on until the aft-tax portion is fully distributed. This
> thread gives some insight:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/9zrlj
>

snip

Thank you! I was aware, in principle, not in detail, of the reporting
requirements. I'll surely be doing more research before moving funds from
the 401k, either as direct distributions or as rollover. My concern here
was mainly how to make Q2005P reflect the accumulations & transactions
properly. Apparently, it's not (yet?) that sophisticated. Many thanks,
Ron

 
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