A4e

After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin
to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a class
of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing useful made
me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone notice the young
girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and believing
the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and
disillusioned.

It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

"Bill" <> wrote in message
news:...
> After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin
> to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
> class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone notice
> the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and
> believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and
> disillusioned.
>
> It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>

Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the building
for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the course"
**** if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they set.
The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.

They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there is
let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to the
point of lying to get people to apply.

It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously contemplated
killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing that
now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a bonus
and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact they
will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better for
A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the fee
with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e are
exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
time.

On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Bill" <c...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:...
>
> > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin
> > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. *Seeing a
> > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. *Did anyone notice
> > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and
> > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and
> > disillusioned.
>
> > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
> banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the building
> for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the course"
> **** if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they set.
> The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
> poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work thereis
> let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to the
> point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously contemplated
> killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing that
> now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a bonus
> and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact they
> will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better for
> A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the fee
> with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e are
> exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
> people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
> fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> time.

Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
£300 net.
The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
Hours, distance and minimum salary.
When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
job better than the guy I ended up training.
Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
nice filler.
Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
unable to work.

Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
keep people they don't like.

Martin <><

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:50:06 +0100, Bill wrote:

> After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> begin to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
> Seeing a class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
> nothing useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did
> anyone notice the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full
> of enthusiasm and believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few
> days later bored and disillusioned.
>
> It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

Some of the schemes are appalling.

Luckily there's some better schemes around, especially if you avoid the
mandatory providers.

Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists, and
these are very different to the a4e type service.

"onearm" <> wrote in message
news:%sSlm.19720$2...
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:50:06 +0100, Bill wrote:
>
>> After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
>> begin to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
>> Seeing a class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
>> nothing useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did
>> anyone notice the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full
>> of enthusiasm and believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few
>> days later bored and disillusioned.
>>
>> It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> Some of the schemes are appalling.

I have been to 3 different providers and all of them are the same, Same
format as A4e, same bonus driven goals. Same mindless exercises.


>
> Luckily there's some better schemes around, especially if you avoid the
> mandatory providers.


I have yet to see a scheme that is not mandatory. The mental health trust
that keeps writing to me tells me that if I do not attend, it could affect
my benefit. I have not been to Shaw Trust yet, and I do not intend to go.


>
> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists, and
> these are very different to the a4e type service.


Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to create
jobs where there are none? Anyway you will see what they are like in next
weeks episode of BB when they will be dealing with the sick, should be a
right laugh.

<> wrote in message
news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-...
On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Bill" <c...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:...
>
> > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> > begin
> > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
> > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > notice
> > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
> > and
> > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
> > and
> > disillusioned.
>
> > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
> banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> building
> for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> course"
> **** if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they
> set.
> The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
> poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there
> is
> let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
> the
> point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> contemplated
> killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
> that
> now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
> bonus
> and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
> they
> will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
> for
> A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the
> fee
> with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
> are
> exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
> people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
> fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> time.

Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
£300 net.
The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
Hours, distance and minimum salary.
When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
job better than the guy I ended up training.
Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
nice filler.
Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
unable to work.

Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
keep people they don't like.

Martin <><

>>>>>>>>>>>
There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
****, you would come out smelling of roses.
If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning on
a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
find some excuse to keep sending them in.

On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> <mart2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-...
> On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bill" <c...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >news:...
>
> > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> > > begin
> > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
> > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > notice
> > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
> > > and
> > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
> > > and
> > > disillusioned.
>
> > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
> > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > building
> > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > course"
> > **** if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they
> > set.
> > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
> > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there
> > is
> > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
> > the
> > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > contemplated
> > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
> > that
> > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
> > bonus
> > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
> > they
> > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
> > for
> > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the
> > fee
> > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
> > are
> > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
> > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
> > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> > time.
>
> Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> £300 net.
> The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> job better than the guy I ended up training.
> Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> nice filler.
> Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> unable to work.
>
> Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> keep people they don't like.
>
> Martin *<><
>
>
>
> There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
> ****, you would come out smelling of roses.
> If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoningon
> a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
> find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
unemployment.
Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
plentiful.

Have you not heard of people dying because of mine work? Mineworkers
compensation scheme was going for several years.

Martin <><

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:

> "onearm" <> wrote in message
> news:%sSlm.19720$2...
>
>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
>
>
> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
> create jobs where there are none?

They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
people paying for the service. It's evidence based, and part of the
evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.

The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
fit the client into available jobs.

"onearm" <> wrote in message
news:Z6Ylm.10390$2...
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
>
>> "onearm" <> wrote in message
>> news:%sSlm.19720$2...
>>
>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
>>
>>
>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
>> create jobs where there are none?
>
> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
> people paying for the service. It's evidence based, and part of the
> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
>
> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
> fit the client into available jobs.


Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out there?
Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters from Shaw
Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first appointment.
They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers. "Work Focused
Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that you participate".
Yes I am sure it is, if the ****ers are going to make money out of me. It
goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored, personal support available
to you, and to avoid any possible reduction in benefit". The same old
bullshit threats you get from all course providers. "Because you did not
attend, we are required to notify the benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.

This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they are
well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they use, there
is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New Deal. They
want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of them.

Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those ****ers write a report saying
you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are actually
the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you will find
yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.

<> wrote in message
news:a1ea58e5-7adb-4c04-9816-...
On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> <mart2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0de37d08-54ca-488c-b962-...
> On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bill" <c...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >news:...
>
> > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
> > > begin
> > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
> > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
> > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
> > > notice
> > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
> > > and
> > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
> > > and
> > > disillusioned.
>
> > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
>
> > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
> > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
> > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
> > building
> > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
> > course"
> > **** if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they
> > set.
> > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
>
> > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply
> > for
> > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
> > there
> > is
> > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
> > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
> > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
> > the
> > point of lying to get people to apply.
>
> > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
> > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
> > contemplated
> > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
> > that
> > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
>
> > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
> > bonus
> > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
> > they
> > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
> > for
> > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the
> > fee
> > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
> > are
> > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
> > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
> > push
> > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
> > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
> > endless
> > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
> > time.
>
> Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
> £300 net.
> The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
> Hours, distance and minimum salary.
> When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
> Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
> job better than the guy I ended up training.
> Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
> contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
> permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
> nice filler.
> Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
> didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
> travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
> at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
> unable to work.
>
> Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
> not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
>
> Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
> because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
> staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
> keep people they don't like.
>
> Martin <><
>
>
>
> There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
> ****, you would come out smelling of roses.
> If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning
> on
> a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
> find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
unemployment.
Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
plentiful.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year
contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.