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Money market fund shows a loss

 
 
David Arnstein
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      12-21-2011, 05:10 PM
Using Quicken 2012 with a LONG history.

I have a money market fund that is showing a loss. I have and do hold
this fund in multiple accounts, but I think I can isolate the problem
to a single account. If I pull up the Account Overview for that account,
I see all of the capital loss for the money market fund there.

I have examined every transaction for that fund, in the problematic
account. The only transaction Actions I can find are
BoughtX
SoldX
DivX
ReinvDiv

The BoughtX, SoldX, and ReinvDiv Actions all show a quote of exactly
$1.00. The DivX Actions do not show a quote, which seems to be the way
Quicken works. Logical.

I totalled the amounts in all the DivX transactions and it does not seem
to be related to the amount of the loss that Quicken reports. The two
numbers are not equal. One number is not an integer multiple of the
other.

I am concerned about this because I cannot now trust any of the gain/loss
numbers reported by Quicken. I would like to understand this particular
problem so that I can make sense of the gain/loss numbers reported by
Quicken for my other investments.

Thanks for any suggestions.
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David Arnstein (00)
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John Pollard
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      12-21-2011, 08:10 PM
"David Arnstein"

Using Quicken 2012 with a LONG history.

I have a money market fund that is showing a loss.

....

I have examined every transaction for that fund, in the problematic
account.

....

-----------------------------------------------

I'm not sure the problem need be with a transaction.

Have you checked the Quicken price history for the fund?

Investing > Investing Tools > Security Detail View

Select the security. Then Update > Edit Price History.

Look for non-one dollar prices.

If that doesn't turn up anything, you can try recalculating the register.

In the Transaction List of the account where you believe the problem lies,
hold down CTRL while clicking the letter z. When it works, you should see a
message saying "Recalculate all transactions?" with OK and Cancel buttons.

 
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David Arnstein
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      12-22-2011, 07:47 AM
In article <jctefv$8tm$(E-Mail Removed)>,
John Pollard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Have you checked the Quicken price history for the fund?


I just did. Every entry is $1.00.

>If that doesn't turn up anything, you can try recalculating the register.
>
>In the Transaction List of the account where you believe the problem lies,
>hold down CTRL while clicking the letter z. When it works, you should see a
>message saying "Recalculate all transactions?" with OK and Cancel buttons.


I was able to do this for the brokerage register. I was unable to
bring up this message for the linked cash register, perhaps that does
not matter.

Anyway, my "loss" problem is still in effect. Any other suggestions.

In any case, Thank you John. I learned something from your post.
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David Arnstein (00)
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ps56k
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      12-22-2011, 02:24 PM
I was wondering if this MMF was in the Savings side or the Investment side ?
having some bank MMF setup in the Savings side,
along with the various Investment MMF direct funds from Fidelity, Schwab,
Vanguard, etc.

I can only really see details on the Investment side.....
and mine of course show ->
Shares = Market Value = Cost Basis

The share price could have been wacked at some point
and was not equal to $1.00 when some minor add/subtract took place.
I do recall seeing that happen recently.

I have also seen where the downloaded file doesn't properly account
for the transaction - and shares are added or subtracted - but nothing else.


 
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Zaidy036
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      12-22-2011, 03:22 PM
On 12/21/2011 12:10 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
> BoughtX
> SoldX
> DivX
> ReinvDiv


Should ReinvDiv be ReinvDivX or DivX be Div ?

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Zaidy036
 
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David Arnstein
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      12-22-2011, 03:38 PM
In article <jcvhv9$m6f$(E-Mail Removed)>, Zaidy036 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On 12/21/2011 12:10 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
>> BoughtX
>> SoldX
>> DivX
>> ReinvDiv

>
>Should ReinvDiv be ReinvDivX or DivX be Div ?


Hello Zaidy,

Those actions are exactly what I see. Perhaps the reason is that my
investment account in Quicken is linked to a cash account. This
linkage was set up in Quicken automatically, many years ago. That is
the way Quicken used to work. I believe that the "X" stands for
"transfer" (to/from linked cash account).
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David Arnstein (00)
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Jerry Boyle
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      12-22-2011, 03:38 PM

"David Arnstein" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:jct3ts$hdo$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Using Quicken 2012 with a LONG history.
>
> I have a money market fund that is showing a loss. I have and do hold
> this fund in multiple accounts, but I think I can isolate the problem
> to a single account. If I pull up the Account Overview for that account,
> I see all of the capital loss for the money market fund there.
>
> I have examined every transaction for that fund, in the problematic
> account. The only transaction Actions I can find are
> BoughtX
> SoldX
> DivX
> ReinvDiv
>
> The BoughtX, SoldX, and ReinvDiv Actions all show a quote of exactly
> $1.00. The DivX Actions do not show a quote, which seems to be the way
> Quicken works. Logical.
>
> I totalled the amounts in all the DivX transactions and it does not seem
> to be related to the amount of the loss that Quicken reports. The two
> numbers are not equal. One number is not an integer multiple of the
> other.
>
> I am concerned about this because I cannot now trust any of the gain/loss
> numbers reported by Quicken. I would like to understand this particular
> problem so that I can make sense of the gain/loss numbers reported by
> Quicken for my other investments.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.


Does the loss show in Portfolio view?

If so, you can set "Group by:" to Accounts, "Show" to any view (e.g. Tax
Implications) that shows Gain/Loss, and then step thru dates ("As of:")
until you find the earliest time at which the problem occurs. If you like,
you can customize the view to eliminate accounts and securities that aren't
relevant to your problem.

You can also click the "+" next to a security name to see the individual lot
statuses as of that date.

The above may expose the location of an unprintable garbage character in a
transaction or a price history entry. Sometimes garbage characters in data
can cause unpredictable calculation errors [and maybe even *re*calculation
errors!].

I also vaguely remember a case many years ago where correcting the cost of a
purchase left me with correct cost bases for (the remaining portion of)
individual lots but with an incorrect total. I had to delete and reenter
both the purchase and all subsequent sales to fix the problem. I can't
recall whether or not I first tried recalculating the register.


 
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Zaidy036
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      12-22-2011, 03:56 PM
On 12/22/2011 10:38 AM, David Arnstein wrote:
> In article<jcvhv9$m6f$(E-Mail Removed)>, Zaidy036<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On 12/21/2011 12:10 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
>>> BoughtX
>>> SoldX
>>> DivX
>>> ReinvDiv

>>
>> Should ReinvDiv be ReinvDivX or DivX be Div ?

>
> Hello Zaidy,
>
> Those actions are exactly what I see. Perhaps the reason is that my
> investment account in Quicken is linked to a cash account. This
> linkage was set up in Quicken automatically, many years ago. That is
> the way Quicken used to work. I believe that the "X" stands for
> "transfer" (to/from linked cash account).


Since you have a linked cash account then ReinvDiv should not be there.
DivX and BoughtX combination take care of that function.

I think that your ReinvDiv are duplications and your share totals are
now wrong. For the dates of your ReinvDiv compare to DivX and BoughtX
transactions.

Have you checked your share totals against 1099s or the funds web site info?
--
Zaidy036
 
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David Arnstein
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      12-22-2011, 05:26 PM
In article <jcviv0$rj3$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Jerry Boyle <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Does the loss show in Portfolio view?
>
>If so, you can set "Group by:" to Accounts, "Show" to any view (e.g. Tax
>Implications) that shows Gain/Loss, and then step thru dates ("As of:")
>until you find the earliest time at which the problem occurs. If you like,
>you can customize the view to eliminate accounts and securities that aren't
>relevant to your problem.


Excellent suggestion Jerry. Using your method, I was able to isolate a
single SoldX transaction for the money market fund. It caused the problem,
somehow.

I tried choosing new Lots for the transaction. That did not fix the
problem. Why should it? Every single lot had a share price of $1.

Then I simply deleted the transaction and typed it in again. Problem
solved.

I have a much bigger problem now. I cannot trust any of Quicken's
gain/loss numbers. From now on, I will just use Quicken as a register
for recording transactions. The reports are useless.
--
David Arnstein (00)
(E-Mail Removed) {{ }}
^^
 
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Green Eggs & NoSpam
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      01-02-2012, 06:39 PM

"David Arnstein" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:jcvp8o$ar0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <jcviv0$rj3$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Jerry Boyle <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>Does the loss show in Portfolio view?
>>
>>If so, you can set "Group by:" to Accounts, "Show" to any view (e.g. Tax
>>Implications) that shows Gain/Loss, and then step thru dates ("As of:")
>>until you find the earliest time at which the problem occurs. If you like,
>>you can customize the view to eliminate accounts and securities that
>>aren't
>>relevant to your problem.

>
> Excellent suggestion Jerry. Using your method, I was able to isolate a
> single SoldX transaction for the money market fund. It caused the problem,
> somehow.
>
> I tried choosing new Lots for the transaction. That did not fix the
> problem. Why should it? Every single lot had a share price of $1.
>
> Then I simply deleted the transaction and typed it in again. Problem
> solved.
>
> I have a much bigger problem now. I cannot trust any of Quicken's
> gain/loss numbers. From now on, I will just use Quicken as a register
> for recording transactions. The reports are useless.
> --
> David Arnstein (00)
> (E-Mail Removed) {{ }}
> ^^


I change "almost" all of my DivX and IntIncX transactions in my linked cash
accounts. That way I can assign an appropriate category (e.g., federal tax
exempt, state tax exempt, totally exempt, etc.). One exception is where DivX
is paid and then additional shares are purchased; some securities at my
brokerage (e.g., MSFT) do it that way instead of a simple ReinvDiv,
especially when the reinvested amount is a little less than the dividend.

Also, I do use the capital gains report every year. In many cases, my
brokerage does not know the cost basis (Forms 8949 this year will be lots of
fun). I own several municipal bonds, some bought at a premium, and one
cannot use the actual purchase price, but must amortize the premium because
you cannot get a double tax benefit. One feature of the capital gains report
I haven't figured out how to "fix" is that when I transfer securities from
one account to another (I.e., change brokerages) all the transferred
securities appear in the report with zero gain or loss.
--

.................................................. .................................................. ...........................................
"I don't remember any of that. I've been defragging my hard drive and got
rid of all those lost clusters."


 
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