A4e

Discussion in 'UK Tax Credits and Benefits' started by Bill, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. Bill

    Bill Guest

    After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin
    to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a class
    of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing useful made
    me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone notice the young
    girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and believing
    the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and
    disillusioned.

    It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
     
    Bill, Aug 28, 2009
    #1
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  2. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin
    > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
    > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
    > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone notice
    > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and
    > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and
    > disillusioned.
    >
    > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.
    >


    Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
    banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
    bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the building
    for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the course"
    shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they set.
    The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.

    They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
    poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there is
    let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
    agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to the
    point of lying to get people to apply.

    It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
    through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously contemplated
    killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing that
    now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a bonus
    and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact they
    will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better for
    A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the fee
    with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e are
    exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
    worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
    people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
    battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
    fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
    time.
     
    Niteawk, Aug 28, 2009
    #2
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  3. Bill

    Guest

    On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I begin
    > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.  Seeing a
    > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
    > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for.  Did anyone notice
    > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm and
    > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored and
    > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
    > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
    > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the building
    > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the course"
    > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they set.
    > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
    >
    > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
    > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work thereis
    > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
    > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to the
    > point of lying to get people to apply.
    >
    > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
    > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously contemplated
    > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing that
    > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
    >
    > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a bonus
    > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact they
    > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better for
    > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the fee
    > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e are
    > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
    > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
    > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
    > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
    > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
    > time.


    Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    £300 net.
    The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    job better than the guy I ended up training.
    Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    nice filler.
    Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    unable to work.

    Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
    keep people they don't like.

    Martin <><
     
    , Aug 28, 2009
    #3
  4. Bill

    onearm Guest

    On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:50:06 +0100, Bill wrote:

    > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
    > begin to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
    > Seeing a class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
    > nothing useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did
    > anyone notice the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full
    > of enthusiasm and believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few
    > days later bored and disillusioned.
    >
    > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.


    Some of the schemes are appalling.

    Luckily there's some better schemes around, especially if you avoid the
    mandatory providers.

    Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists, and
    these are very different to the a4e type service.
     
    onearm, Aug 28, 2009
    #4
  5. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    "onearm" <> wrote in message
    news:%sSlm.19720$2...
    > On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:50:06 +0100, Bill wrote:
    >
    >> After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
    >> begin to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
    >> Seeing a class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
    >> nothing useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did
    >> anyone notice the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full
    >> of enthusiasm and believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few
    >> days later bored and disillusioned.
    >>
    >> It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > Some of the schemes are appalling.


    I have been to 3 different providers and all of them are the same, Same
    format as A4e, same bonus driven goals. Same mindless exercises.


    >
    > Luckily there's some better schemes around, especially if you avoid the
    > mandatory providers.



    I have yet to see a scheme that is not mandatory. The mental health trust
    that keeps writing to me tells me that if I do not attend, it could affect
    my benefit. I have not been to Shaw Trust yet, and I do not intend to go.


    >
    > Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists, and
    > these are very different to the a4e type service.



    Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to create
    jobs where there are none? Anyway you will see what they are like in next
    weeks episode of BB when they will be dealing with the sick, should be a
    right laugh.
     
    Niteawk, Aug 28, 2009
    #5
  6. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
    > > begin
    > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
    > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
    > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
    > > notice
    > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
    > > and
    > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
    > > and
    > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
    > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
    > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
    > building
    > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
    > course"
    > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they
    > set.
    > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.
    >
    > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
    > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there
    > is
    > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
    > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
    > the
    > point of lying to get people to apply.
    >
    > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
    > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > contemplated
    > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
    > that
    > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.
    >
    > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
    > bonus
    > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
    > they
    > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
    > for
    > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the
    > fee
    > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
    > are
    > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
    > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
    > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
    > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
    > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
    > time.


    Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    £300 net.
    The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    job better than the guy I ended up training.
    Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    nice filler.
    Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    unable to work.

    Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
    keep people they don't like.

    Martin <><

    >>>>>>>>>>>

    There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
    shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning on
    a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
    find some excuse to keep sending them in.
     
    Niteawk, Aug 28, 2009
    #6
  7. Bill

    Guest

    On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:...

    >
    > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
    > > > begin
    > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
    > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
    > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
    > > > notice
    > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
    > > > and
    > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
    > > > and
    > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
    > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
    > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
    > > building
    > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
    > > course"
    > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they
    > > set.
    > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.

    >
    > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply for
    > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work there
    > > is
    > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
    > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
    > > the
    > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
    > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > contemplated
    > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
    > > that
    > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
    > > bonus
    > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
    > > they
    > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
    > > for
    > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the
    > > fee
    > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
    > > are
    > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
    > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they push
    > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
    > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and endless
    > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
    > > time.

    >
    > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    > £300 net.
    > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > nice filler.
    > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > unable to work.
    >
    > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
    >
    > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
    > keep people they don't like.
    >
    > Martin  <><
    >
    >
    >
    > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
    > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoningon
    > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
    > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    unemployment.
    Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    plentiful.

    Have you not heard of people dying because of mine work? Mineworkers
    compensation scheme was going for several years.

    Martin <><
     
    , Aug 28, 2009
    #7
  8. Bill

    onearm Guest

    On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:

    > "onearm" <> wrote in message
    > news:%sSlm.19720$2...
    >
    >> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
    >> and these are very different to the a4e type service.

    >
    >
    > Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
    > create jobs where there are none?


    They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
    people paying for the service. It's evidence based, and part of the
    evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.

    The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
    they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
    says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
    time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
    fit the client into available jobs.
     
    onearm, Aug 28, 2009
    #8
  9. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    "onearm" <> wrote in message
    news:Z6Ylm.10390$2...
    > On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
    >
    >> "onearm" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%sSlm.19720$2...
    >>
    >>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
    >>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.

    >>
    >>
    >> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
    >> create jobs where there are none?

    >
    > They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
    > people paying for the service. It's evidence based, and part of the
    > evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
    >
    > The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
    > they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
    > says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
    > time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
    > fit the client into available jobs.



    Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out there?
    Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters from Shaw
    Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first appointment.
    They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers. "Work Focused
    Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that you participate".
    Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make money out of me. It
    goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored, personal support available
    to you, and to avoid any possible reduction in benefit". The same old
    bullshit threats you get from all course providers. "Because you did not
    attend, we are required to notify the benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.

    This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they are
    well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they use, there
    is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New Deal. They
    want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of them.

    Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report saying
    you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are actually
    the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you will find
    yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.
     
    Niteawk, Aug 29, 2009
    #9
  10. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:...

    >
    > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
    > > > begin
    > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing a
    > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
    > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
    > > > notice
    > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
    > > > and
    > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
    > > > and
    > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
    > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
    > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
    > > building
    > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
    > > course"
    > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they
    > > set.
    > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.

    >
    > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply
    > > for
    > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
    > > there
    > > is
    > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
    > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
    > > the
    > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
    > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > contemplated
    > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
    > > that
    > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
    > > bonus
    > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
    > > they
    > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
    > > for
    > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the
    > > fee
    > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
    > > are
    > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
    > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
    > > push
    > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
    > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
    > > endless
    > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
    > > time.

    >
    > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    > £300 net.
    > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > nice filler.
    > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > unable to work.
    >
    > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.
    >
    > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
    > keep people they don't like.
    >
    > Martin <><
    >
    >
    >
    > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
    > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning
    > on
    > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
    > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    unemployment.
    Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    plentiful.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>

    How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
    Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year
    contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.
     
    Niteawk, Aug 29, 2009
    #10
  11. Bill

    Guest

    On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:....
    > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > > >news:...

    >
    > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
    > > > > begin
    > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeinga
    > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
    > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
    > > > > notice
    > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of enthusiasm
    > > > > and
    > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later bored
    > > > > and
    > > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and utter
    > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together. Some
    > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
    > > > building
    > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
    > > > course"
    > > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks they
    > > > set.
    > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose JSA.

    >
    > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply
    > > > for
    > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
    > > > there
    > > > is
    > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
    > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering, to
    > > > the
    > > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever been
    > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > > contemplated
    > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about doing
    > > > that
    > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
    > > > bonus
    > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
    > > > they
    > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is better
    > > > for
    > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus + the
    > > > fee
    > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job. A4e
    > > > are
    > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
    > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
    > > > push
    > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
    > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
    > > > endless
    > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4 weeks
    > > > time.

    >
    > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    > > £300 net.
    > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > > nice filler.
    > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > > unable to work.

    >
    > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    >
    > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
    > > keep people they don't like.

    >
    > > Martin <><

    >
    > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
    > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical poisoning
    > > on
    > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you would
    > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    > unemployment.
    > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    > plentiful.
    >
    >
    >
    > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
    > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year
    > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
    have been so many years without one.
    Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
    being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
    is hand you a perfect job.

    I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
    merely want some help but make the effort myself.

    Martin <><
     
    , Aug 29, 2009
    #11
  12. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:...
    > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > > >news:...

    >
    > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
    > > > > begin
    > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing
    > > > > a
    > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
    > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
    > > > > notice
    > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
    > > > > enthusiasm
    > > > > and
    > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
    > > > > bored
    > > > > and
    > > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and
    > > > utter
    > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
    > > > Some
    > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
    > > > building
    > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
    > > > course"
    > > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks
    > > > they
    > > > set.
    > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
    > > > JSA.

    >
    > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply
    > > > for
    > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
    > > > there
    > > > is
    > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to do
    > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering,
    > > > to
    > > > the
    > > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
    > > > been
    > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > > contemplated
    > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
    > > > doing
    > > > that
    > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
    > > > bonus
    > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
    > > > they
    > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
    > > > better
    > > > for
    > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus +
    > > > the
    > > > fee
    > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job.
    > > > A4e
    > > > are
    > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
    > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
    > > > push
    > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
    > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
    > > > endless
    > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
    > > > weeks
    > > > time.

    >
    > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    > > £300 net.
    > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > > nice filler.
    > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > > unable to work.

    >
    > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    >
    > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
    > > keep people they don't like.

    >
    > > Martin <><

    >
    > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile of
    > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
    > > poisoning
    > > on
    > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
    > > would
    > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    > unemployment.
    > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    > plentiful.
    >
    >
    >
    > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
    > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year
    > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
    have been so many years without one.
    Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
    being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
    is hand you a perfect job.

    I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
    merely want some help but make the effort myself.

    Martin <><

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
    hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?

    The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for work,
    everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently Shaw
    Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
    vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am between
    courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
    opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. that
    would be nice for a change.
     
    Niteawk, Aug 29, 2009
    #12
  13. Bill

    Guest

    On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:....
    > > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > >news:....
    > > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > >news:...

    >
    > > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters I
    > > > > > begin
    > > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e. Seeing
    > > > > > a
    > > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing nothing
    > > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
    > > > > > notice
    > > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
    > > > > > enthusiasm
    > > > > > and
    > > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
    > > > > > bored
    > > > > > and
    > > > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and
    > > > > utter
    > > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
    > > > > Some
    > > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
    > > > > building
    > > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
    > > > > course"
    > > > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks
    > > > > they
    > > > > set.
    > > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
    > > > > JSA.

    >
    > > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to apply
    > > > > for
    > > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
    > > > > there
    > > > > is
    > > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes todo
    > > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering,
    > > > > to
    > > > > the
    > > > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
    > > > > been
    > > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > > > contemplated
    > > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
    > > > > doing
    > > > > that
    > > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get a
    > > > > bonus
    > > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In fact
    > > > > they
    > > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
    > > > > better
    > > > > for
    > > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus +
    > > > > the
    > > > > fee
    > > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job.
    > > > > A4e
    > > > > are
    > > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long term
    > > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
    > > > > push
    > > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a constant
    > > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
    > > > > endless
    > > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
    > > > > weeks
    > > > > time.

    >
    > > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    > > > £300 net.
    > > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    > > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > > > nice filler.
    > > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > > > unable to work.

    >
    > > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    > > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    >
    > > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
    > > > keep people they don't like.

    >
    > > > Martin <><

    >
    > > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pileof
    > > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
    > > > poisoning
    > > > on
    > > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
    > > > would
    > > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    > > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    > > unemployment.
    > > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    > > plentiful.

    >
    > > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
    > > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5 year
    > > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
    > have been so many years without one.
    > Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
    > being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
    > is hand you a perfect job.
    >
    > I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
    > merely want some help but make the effort myself.
    >
    > Martin  <><
    >
    >
    >
    > And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
    > hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?
    >
    > The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for work,
    > everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently Shaw
    > Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
    > vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am between
    > courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
    > opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. that
    > would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?

    With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
    A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
    Then onto retirement pension when you reach retirement age, and you
    can then complain about lack of money and lack of help for
    pensioners. :)

    Martin <><
     
    , Aug 29, 2009
    #13
  14. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:...
    > > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > >news:...
    > > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > >news:...

    >
    > > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters
    > > > > > I
    > > > > > begin
    > > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
    > > > > > Seeing
    > > > > > a
    > > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
    > > > > > nothing
    > > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
    > > > > > notice
    > > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
    > > > > > enthusiasm
    > > > > > and
    > > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
    > > > > > bored
    > > > > > and
    > > > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and
    > > > > utter
    > > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
    > > > > Some
    > > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
    > > > > building
    > > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
    > > > > course"
    > > > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks
    > > > > they
    > > > > set.
    > > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
    > > > > JSA.

    >
    > > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to
    > > > > apply
    > > > > for
    > > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
    > > > > there
    > > > > is
    > > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to
    > > > > do
    > > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering,
    > > > > to
    > > > > the
    > > > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
    > > > > been
    > > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > > > contemplated
    > > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
    > > > > doing
    > > > > that
    > > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get
    > > > > a
    > > > > bonus
    > > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In
    > > > > fact
    > > > > they
    > > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
    > > > > better
    > > > > for
    > > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus +
    > > > > the
    > > > > fee
    > > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job.
    > > > > A4e
    > > > > are
    > > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long
    > > > > term
    > > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
    > > > > push
    > > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a
    > > > > constant
    > > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
    > > > > endless
    > > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
    > > > > weeks
    > > > > time.

    >
    > > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    > > > £300 net.
    > > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    > > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > > > nice filler.
    > > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > > > unable to work.

    >
    > > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    > > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    >
    > > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have to
    > > > keep people they don't like.

    >
    > > > Martin <><

    >
    > > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile
    > > > of
    > > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
    > > > poisoning
    > > > on
    > > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
    > > > would
    > > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    > > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    > > unemployment.
    > > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    > > plentiful.

    >
    > > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
    > > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5
    > > year
    > > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
    > have been so many years without one.
    > Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
    > being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
    > is hand you a perfect job.
    >
    > I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
    > merely want some help but make the effort myself.
    >
    > Martin <><
    >
    >
    >
    > And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
    > hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?
    >
    > The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for work,
    > everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently
    > Shaw
    > Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
    > vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am between
    > courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
    > opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. that
    > would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?

    With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
    A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
    Martin <><


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    What are you saying, you mean they might not find me a job ever, not even
    charity work! Christ on a bike, this sounds serious, all my sellotaping
    skills gone to waste, "for nowt" as they say in Hull. There must be someone
    out there who needs a skilled sellotaper.
     
    Niteawk, Aug 29, 2009
    #14
  15. Bill

    Guest

    On 29 Aug, 18:23, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:...
    > > On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > >news:....
    > > > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > >news:...
    > > > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > > >news:...

    >
    > > > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit Busters
    > > > > > > I
    > > > > > > begin
    > > > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
    > > > > > > Seeing
    > > > > > > a
    > > > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
    > > > > > > nothing
    > > > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did anyone
    > > > > > > notice
    > > > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
    > > > > > > enthusiasm
    > > > > > > and
    > > > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
    > > > > > > bored
    > > > > > > and
    > > > > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > > > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and
    > > > > > utter
    > > > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together..
    > > > > > Some
    > > > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving the
    > > > > > building
    > > > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off the
    > > > > > course"
    > > > > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks
    > > > > > they
    > > > > > set.
    > > > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
    > > > > > JSA.

    >
    > > > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to
    > > > > > apply
    > > > > > for
    > > > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours work
    > > > > > there
    > > > > > is
    > > > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes to
    > > > > > do
    > > > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in offering,
    > > > > > to
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
    > > > > > been
    > > > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > > > > contemplated
    > > > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
    > > > > > doing
    > > > > > that
    > > > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will get
    > > > > > a
    > > > > > bonus
    > > > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In
    > > > > > fact
    > > > > > they
    > > > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
    > > > > > better
    > > > > > for
    > > > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus+
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > fee
    > > > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp job.
    > > > > > A4e
    > > > > > are
    > > > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long
    > > > > > term
    > > > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why they
    > > > > > push
    > > > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a
    > > > > > constant
    > > > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
    > > > > > endless
    > > > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
    > > > > > weeks
    > > > > > time.

    >
    > > > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to earn
    > > > > £300 net.
    > > > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > > > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > > > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > > > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing the
    > > > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > > > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > > > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > > > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > > > > nice filler.
    > > > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > > > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > > > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > > > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > > > > unable to work.

    >
    > > > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies. If
    > > > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    >
    > > > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > > > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > > > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't haveto
    > > > > keep people they don't like.

    >
    > > > > Martin <><

    >
    > > > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a pile
    > > > > of
    > > > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > > > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
    > > > > poisoning
    > > > > on
    > > > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
    > > > > would
    > > > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    > > > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    > > > unemployment.
    > > > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    > > > plentiful.

    >
    > > > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch Benefit
    > > > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5
    > > > year
    > > > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
    > > have been so many years without one.
    > > Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
    > > being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
    > > is hand you a perfect job.

    >
    > > I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
    > > merely want some help but make the effort myself.

    >
    > > Martin <><

    >
    > > And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
    > > hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?

    >
    > > The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for work,
    > > everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently
    > > Shaw
    > > Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
    > > vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am between
    > > courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
    > > opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to. that
    > > would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?
    >
    > With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
    > A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
    > Martin  <><
    >
    >
    >
    > What are you saying, you mean they might not find me a job ever, not even
    > charity work! Christ on a bike, this sounds serious, all my sellotaping
    > skills gone to waste, "for nowt" as they say in Hull. There must be someone
    > out there who needs a skilled sellotaper.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    No, they might never find you a job you will take at all.
    And for some insane reason, charities tend to want people willing to
    work as employees......

    Martin <><
     
    , Aug 29, 2009
    #15
  16. Bill

    Robbie Guest

    Niteawk wrote:
    >
    > "onearm" <> wrote in message
    > news:Z6Ylm.10390$2...
    >> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
    >>
    >>> "onearm" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:%sSlm.19720$2...
    >>>
    >>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
    >>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
    >>> create jobs where there are none?

    >>
    >> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
    >> people paying for the service. It's evidence based, and part of the
    >> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
    >>
    >> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
    >> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
    >> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
    >> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
    >> fit the client into available jobs.

    >
    >
    > Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out
    > there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
    > from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
    > appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
    > "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
    > you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
    > money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
    > personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
    > in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
    > providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
    > benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
    >
    > This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they
    > are well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they
    > use, there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New
    > Deal. They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of
    > them.
    >
    > Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report
    > saying you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are
    > actually the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you
    > will find yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.


    Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of
    the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to
    provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with
    disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the
    past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government
    funding. They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.

    I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more
    individual way.
     
    Robbie, Aug 29, 2009
    #16
  17. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Niteawk wrote:
    >>
    >> "onearm" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Z6Ylm.10390$2...
    >>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "onearm" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:%sSlm.19720$2...
    >>>>
    >>>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
    >>>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
    >>>> create jobs where there are none?
    >>>
    >>> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
    >>> people paying for the service. It's evidence based, and part of the
    >>> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.
    >>>
    >>> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
    >>> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
    >>> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
    >>> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
    >>> fit the client into available jobs.

    >>
    >>
    >> Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out
    >> there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
    >> from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
    >> appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
    >> "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
    >> you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
    >> money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
    >> personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction in
    >> benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
    >> providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
    >> benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.
    >>
    >> This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they are
    >> well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they use,
    >> there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New Deal.
    >> They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of them.
    >>
    >> Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report saying
    >> you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are actually
    >> the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you will find
    >> yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.

    >
    > Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of
    > the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to
    > provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with
    > disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the
    > past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government funding.
    > They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.



    The reports they write are used in evidence to deny IB/ESA. That is what
    they are getting paid for. Whores that would sell their own mothers
    basically.



    >
    > I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more
    > individual way.


    As you say, they have sold out. All this crap is not about helping. If it
    was, they would simply let people choose for themselves. I cant go out and
    demand that someone does something for me, threaten them with some form of
    BS penalty, and then claim I am helping them, but that is what those looney
    bastards are doing.

    I hope I never have to help them out, somehow I dont think they would like
    it ;)
     
    Niteawk, Aug 29, 2009
    #17
  18. Bill

    Niteawk Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On 29 Aug, 18:23, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:...
    > > On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > >news:...
    > > > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > >news:...
    > > > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > > >news:...

    >
    > > > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit
    > > > > > > Busters
    > > > > > > I
    > > > > > > begin
    > > > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
    > > > > > > Seeing
    > > > > > > a
    > > > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
    > > > > > > nothing
    > > > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did
    > > > > > > anyone
    > > > > > > notice
    > > > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
    > > > > > > enthusiasm
    > > > > > > and
    > > > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
    > > > > > > bored
    > > > > > > and
    > > > > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > > > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and
    > > > > > utter
    > > > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
    > > > > > Some
    > > > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > building
    > > > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > course"
    > > > > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks
    > > > > > they
    > > > > > set.
    > > > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
    > > > > > JSA.

    >
    > > > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to
    > > > > > apply
    > > > > > for
    > > > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours
    > > > > > work
    > > > > > there
    > > > > > is
    > > > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes
    > > > > > to
    > > > > > do
    > > > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in
    > > > > > offering,
    > > > > > to
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
    > > > > > been
    > > > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > > > > contemplated
    > > > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
    > > > > > doing
    > > > > > that
    > > > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will
    > > > > > get
    > > > > > a
    > > > > > bonus
    > > > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In
    > > > > > fact
    > > > > > they
    > > > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
    > > > > > better
    > > > > > for
    > > > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus
    > > > > > +
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > fee
    > > > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp
    > > > > > job.
    > > > > > A4e
    > > > > > are
    > > > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long
    > > > > > term
    > > > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why
    > > > > > they
    > > > > > push
    > > > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a
    > > > > > constant
    > > > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
    > > > > > endless
    > > > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or 4
    > > > > > weeks
    > > > > > time.

    >
    > > > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to
    > > > > earn
    > > > > £300 net.
    > > > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > > > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > > > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > > > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing
    > > > > the
    > > > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > > > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > > > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > > > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > > > > nice filler.
    > > > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > > > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > > > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > > > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > > > > unable to work.

    >
    > > > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies.
    > > > > If
    > > > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    >
    > > > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > > > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > > > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have
    > > > > to
    > > > > keep people they don't like.

    >
    > > > > Martin <><

    >
    > > > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a
    > > > > pile
    > > > > of
    > > > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > > > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
    > > > > poisoning
    > > > > on
    > > > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
    > > > > would
    > > > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    > > > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    > > > unemployment.
    > > > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    > > > plentiful.

    >
    > > > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch
    > > > Benefit
    > > > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5
    > > > year
    > > > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
    > > have been so many years without one.
    > > Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
    > > being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
    > > is hand you a perfect job.

    >
    > > I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
    > > merely want some help but make the effort myself.

    >
    > > Martin <><

    >
    > > And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
    > > hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?

    >
    > > The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for
    > > work,
    > > everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently
    > > Shaw
    > > Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
    > > vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am
    > > between
    > > courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
    > > opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to.
    > > that
    > > would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?
    >
    > With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
    > A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
    > Martin <><
    >
    >
    >
    > What are you saying, you mean they might not find me a job ever, not even
    > charity work! Christ on a bike, this sounds serious, all my sellotaping
    > skills gone to waste, "for nowt" as they say in Hull. There must be
    > someone
    > out there who needs a skilled sellotaper.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    No, they might never find you a job you will take at all.
    And for some insane reason, charities tend to want people willing to
    work as employees......

    Martin <><

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The only reason they want people regardless is, they are making a fortune
    out of the unemployed for doing **** all.
     
    Niteawk, Aug 29, 2009
    #18
  19. Bill

    Guest

    On 29 Aug, 20:32, Robbie <> wrote:
    > Niteawk wrote:
    >
    > > "onearm" <> wrote in message
    > >news:Z6Ylm.10390$2...
    > >> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:31:56 +0100, Niteawk wrote:

    >
    > >>> "onearm" <> wrote in message
    > >>>news:%sSlm.19720$2...

    >
    > >>>> Mental Health trusts are starting to provide employment specialists,
    > >>>> and these are very different to the a4e type service.

    >
    > >>> Really, and what special talents do they have, a magic talisman to
    > >>> create jobs where there are none?

    >
    > >> They have a different model to work to, and this is specified by the
    > >> people paying for the service.  It's evidence based, and part of the
    > >> evidence specifically excludes mandatory systems.

    >
    > >> The Individual Placement and Support model is open to anyone who says
    > >> they're ready to work (so people don't get excluded because someone else
    > >> says they're too ill.), it aims for rapid placement in real jobs, it has
    > >> time-unlimited support, and it tries to get work the client wants, not
    > >> fit the client into available jobs.

    >
    > > Mental Health Trusts, a bit of a catch all isnt it, how many are out
    > > there? Anyway I dont believe a word of what you say. I have 2 letters
    > > from Shaw Trust, the latest one berating me for not attending the first
    > > appointment. They use exactly the same phrases as New Deal advisers.
    > > "Work Focused Interview, Pathways to Work program. It is important that
    > > you participate". Yes I am sure it is, if the fuckers are going to make
    > > money out of me. It goes on, "Find out about the range of tailored,
    > > personal support available to you, and to avoid any possible reduction
    > > in benefit". The same old bullshit threats you get from all course
    > > providers. "Because you did not attend, we are required to notify the
    > > benefit delivery centre". Yeah right.

    >
    > > This type of course is about taking people off the sick, whether they
    > > are well enough to work or not. As you can see from the phrases they
    > > use, there is nothing different about their model to that of A4e and New
    > > Deal. They want to beat people with a big stick the same as the rest of
    > > them.

    >
    > > Anyone on IB or ESA will lose it once those fuckers write a report
    > > saying you can perform a range of mindless tasks. So in a way, they are
    > > actually the worst of all sham course providers. Once you attend, you
    > > will find yourself back on JSA then its back to A4e.

    >
    > Unfortunately Shaw Trust seem to have come on board the Golden Dream of
    > the Government and are now providing services they weren't set up to
    > provide. They have been a long time provider of help to people with
    > disabilities, both physical and mental, and have done this well in the
    > past but now have been lured by the promise of £££s of Government
    > funding. They have sold out, in a way, and that is a sad situation.
    >
    > I hope they go back to their roots and help less people but in a more
    > individual way.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Government funding is a funny thing. You either meet all the criteria
    and do what the contract says. Or you simply don't have the money.
    If necessary they can subsidise the government with the contract (all
    charities can) in order to produce service beyond the minimum needed.
    Though always limited funds for doing that.
    I rather like them, even now. Then again, they helped me a lot. And
    continue to help local disabled people in my area.

    Martin <><
     
    , Aug 30, 2009
    #19
  20. Bill

    Guest

    On 29 Aug, 23:34, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On 29 Aug, 18:23, "Niteawk" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:....
    > > On 29 Aug, 17:43, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > >news:....
    > > > On 29 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > >news:...
    > > > > On 28 Aug, 21:32, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > > >news:..com...
    > > > > > On 28 Aug, 15:21, "Niteawk" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message

    >
    > > > > > >news:...

    >
    > > > > > > > After watching last night's programme (27/8/09) of Benefit
    > > > > > > > Busters
    > > > > > > > I
    > > > > > > > begin
    > > > > > > > to understand what Niteawk finds so objectionable about A4e.
    > > > > > > > Seeing
    > > > > > > > a
    > > > > > > > class of jobseekers just left to their own devices and doing
    > > > > > > > nothing
    > > > > > > > useful made me wonder what A4e get paid good money for. Did
    > > > > > > > anyone
    > > > > > > > notice
    > > > > > > > the young girl, bright and intelligent, came to A4e full of
    > > > > > > > enthusiasm
    > > > > > > > and
    > > > > > > > believing the bullshit she was being fed, then a few days later
    > > > > > > > bored
    > > > > > > > and
    > > > > > > > disillusioned.

    >
    > > > > > > > It all just seems a waste of time and money to me.

    >
    > > > > > > Thats right, although edited to ****, you could see the sheer and
    > > > > > > utter
    > > > > > > banality of it all. The mindless tasks sellotaping paper together.
    > > > > > > Some
    > > > > > > bearded prick talking down to one of the jobseekers for leaving
    > > > > > > the
    > > > > > > building
    > > > > > > for a couple of hours. They really play on the "you will be off
    > > > > > > the
    > > > > > > course"
    > > > > > > shit if you do not act like a **** and complete the childish tasks
    > > > > > > they
    > > > > > > set.
    > > > > > > The implication is, if they kick you off the course, you will lose
    > > > > > > JSA.

    >
    > > > > > > They are in effect treating people like morons. Forcing them to
    > > > > > > apply
    > > > > > > for
    > > > > > > poxy agency jobs where there is no guarantee of how many hours
    > > > > > > work
    > > > > > > there
    > > > > > > is
    > > > > > > let alone days that are available. 0 hour contracts ffs.
    > > > > > > Any fool knows you cant sign off and on the dole every 5 minutes
    > > > > > > to
    > > > > > > do
    > > > > > > agency work, but thats all the fat woman was interested in
    > > > > > > offering,
    > > > > > > to
    > > > > > > the
    > > > > > > point of lying to get people to apply.

    >
    > > > > > > It is the most soul destroying and depressing exercise I have ever
    > > > > > > been
    > > > > > > through. You are treated worse than prisoners. I have seriously
    > > > > > > contemplated
    > > > > > > killing one of the bastards in the past, I even still think about
    > > > > > > doing
    > > > > > > that
    > > > > > > now. I could end up doing that if they send me back.

    >
    > > > > > > Still 2 people got jobs out of it, for about 5 minutes. A4e will
    > > > > > > get
    > > > > > > a
    > > > > > > bonus
    > > > > > > and be paid another fee for dealing with the same 2 customers. In
    > > > > > > fact
    > > > > > > they
    > > > > > > will be paid endlessly for dealing with the same people, so it is
    > > > > > > better
    > > > > > > for
    > > > > > > A4e to find people short term and temp jobs as they get the bonus
    > > > > > > +
    > > > > > > the
    > > > > > > fee
    > > > > > > with more to come each time they place someone in a shite temp
    > > > > > > job.
    > > > > > > A4e
    > > > > > > are
    > > > > > > exploiting people to maximise profit. They wont find people long
    > > > > > > term
    > > > > > > worthwhile jobs as there is not as much profit in it, thats why
    > > > > > > they
    > > > > > > push
    > > > > > > people to apply for shite jobs all the time. So it becomes a
    > > > > > > constant
    > > > > > > battle, you hate them and they hate you. They want their bonus and
    > > > > > > endless
    > > > > > > fees, you want a full time job that is not going to end in 2 or4
    > > > > > > weeks
    > > > > > > time.

    >
    > > > > > Not all agency work is bad. And some will sign off for a week to
    > > > > > earn
    > > > > > £300 net.
    > > > > > The thing about agency work is you yourself set the limitations.
    > > > > > Hours, distance and minimum salary.
    > > > > > When 11/9 happened I was doing some agency work at Direct Line.
    > > > > > Getting about 25% more than the staff I was working with and doing
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > job better than the guy I ended up training.
    > > > > > Only a 1 week contract that week but I'd just finished 5 months
    > > > > > contract and had another contract (that ended up leading to a
    > > > > > permanent job) starting the following week. A 1 week contract made a
    > > > > > nice filler.
    > > > > > Some of the people registered with the agency rarely got work - they
    > > > > > didn't want to do xxx or work in yyyy. I was dependable, willing to
    > > > > > travel a bit, didn't insist on 9 to 5 jobs and set my minimum salary
    > > > > > at well above minimum wage. Apart from public holidays I was rarely
    > > > > > unable to work.

    >
    > > > > > Two of my previous employers have only recruited through agencies..
    > > > > > If
    > > > > > not registered with a particular agency, no chance of a job.

    >
    > > > > > Still plenty of agency jobs around today. Attractive to employers
    > > > > > because they can terminate position without too much hassle, can get
    > > > > > staff without going through full recruitment process and don't have
    > > > > > to
    > > > > > keep people they don't like.

    >
    > > > > > Martin <><

    >
    > > > > > There is a saying for people like you Martin. If you fell into a
    > > > > > pile
    > > > > > of
    > > > > > shit, you would come out smelling of roses.
    > > > > > If I said people were working down mines, and dying of chemical
    > > > > > poisoning
    > > > > > on
    > > > > > a weekly basis, such is the insane mindset of course providers, you
    > > > > > would
    > > > > > find some excuse to keep sending them in.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > > > Yes, I am a hard worker, great CV, great career and don't have trouble
    > > > > finding a job even in the area of Britain with the highest
    > > > > unemployment.
    > > > > Unlike you who couldn't or wouldn't find work even when jobs were
    > > > > plentiful.

    >
    > > > > How many more times must I tell you, it is not down to me. Watch
    > > > > Benefit
    > > > > Busters, the government has just awarded A4e 700 million quid on a 5
    > > > > year
    > > > > contract to get us jobs. Let them get on with it.- Hide quoted text-

    >
    > > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > > And because you refuse to accept responsibility to find a job, you
    > > > have been so many years without one.
    > > > Government departments can help, with money, expenses (maybe) and
    > > > being a contact point for employers to advertise. What they can't do
    > > > is hand you a perfect job.

    >
    > > > I suspect thats where we differ the most. You want it handed to you, I
    > > > merely want some help but make the effort myself.

    >
    > > > Martin <><

    >
    > > > And if we make the effort ourselves, why is the likes of A4e being paid
    > > > hundreds of millions of pounds to find us work?

    >
    > > > The way I see is, I am not out of work. I have no say in looking for
    > > > work,
    > > > everything I do is dictated at me by the JC and A4e, and more recently
    > > > Shaw
    > > > Trust who wants to control me while on the sick. They hand me the job
    > > > vacancies and order me to apply, thats what I do. Technically I am
    > > > between
    > > > courses at the moment, I just hope they find me a PAYING job soon, as
    > > > opposed to the unpaid charity job placements they keep sending me to.
    > > > that
    > > > would be nice for a change.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > LOL. You really believe you have no say in looking for work?

    >
    > > With that belief, you'll always be under government schemes such as
    > > A4e, jobcentre and benefits.
    > > Martin <><

    >
    > > What are you saying, you mean they might not find me a job ever, not even
    > > charity work! Christ on a bike, this sounds serious, all my sellotaping
    > > skills gone to waste, "for nowt" as they say in Hull. There must be
    > > someone
    > > out there who needs a skilled sellotaper.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > No, they might never find you a job you will take at all.
    > And for some insane reason, charities tend to want people willing to
    > work as employees......
    >
    > Martin  <><
    >
    >
    >
    > The only reason they want people regardless is, they are making a fortune
    > out of the unemployed for doing **** all.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    LOL.
    Thats besides the costs in training, criminal checks (charity has to
    pay for) and lack of government money. Some of these charities are
    getting £30 a person for over £100 in costs!

    Martin <><
     
    , Aug 30, 2009
    #20
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