Check cleared before setup date!

Discussion in 'Quicken' started by DotCom2, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. DotCom2

    DotCom2 Guest

    I setup an online check to be paid to my health ins. for $1680.00 for this
    Wed. the 15th.
    However it cleared my bank account this Monday the 13th! Two days early!
    It did not cause my account to be over drafted but I could see the potential
    that it certainly could have.
    If I recall, this is not the first time this has happened but I never really
    worried about it until I see know that it can happen at anytime without my
    knowledge. I pay my bills online through Quicken on my Wells Fargo account.
    Who is at fault here? Quicken or Wells Fargo? And how is that even legal
    for a check to clear before the date I put on it? I know you can't cash a
    paper check before the date stated on it so how is this possible on an
    online check?
     
    DotCom2, Jun 14, 2011
    #1
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  2. DotCom2

    Han Guest

    "DotCom2" <> wrote in news:it7qvt$38r$:

    > I setup an online check to be paid to my health ins. for $1680.00 for
    > this Wed. the 15th.
    > However it cleared my bank account this Monday the 13th! Two days
    > early! It did not cause my account to be over drafted but I could see
    > the potential that it certainly could have.
    > If I recall, this is not the first time this has happened but I never
    > really worried about it until I see know that it can happen at anytime
    > without my knowledge. I pay my bills online through Quicken on my
    > Wells Fargo account. Who is at fault here? Quicken or Wells Fargo?
    > And how is that even legal for a check to clear before the date I put
    > on it? I know you can't cash a paper check before the date stated on
    > it so how is this possible on an online check?


    I believe this occurs because the intent is to have the check (or EFT)
    show up on the date you told Quicken to do this. In other words, in
    order to be sure the "check" gets there the 15th, Quicken tells your bank
    to take the money out of your account on the 13th, so that there are 2
    days to make sure the check/EFT gets there on time. In the case of
    actual checks (not EFTs) by USPS snailmail, the lead time is probably
    more like 5 business days, not 2.

    To avoid this, I have authorized utilities etc. to "pull" the money out
    of my checking account on the payment due date. That way, the payee is
    responsible for getting the money on time, and I get to use the "float".
    I know some people are hesitant to do this, but anytime you have sent
    them an actualcheck,they have all the info on your checking account
    already.

    --
    Best regards
    Han
    email address is invalid
     
    Han, Jun 14, 2011
    #2
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  3. DotCom2

    DotCom2 Guest

    I *think* I understand what you are saying, but can it ever be more than two
    days?
    Because if so that can be pretty scary.

    "Han" wrote in message news:Xns9F047129C748Bikkezelf@216.151.153.169...

    "DotCom2" <> wrote in news:it7qvt$38r$:

    > I setup an online check to be paid to my health ins. for $1680.00 for
    > this Wed. the 15th.
    > However it cleared my bank account this Monday the 13th! Two days
    > early! It did not cause my account to be over drafted but I could see
    > the potential that it certainly could have.
    > If I recall, this is not the first time this has happened but I never
    > really worried about it until I see know that it can happen at anytime
    > without my knowledge. I pay my bills online through Quicken on my
    > Wells Fargo account. Who is at fault here? Quicken or Wells Fargo?
    > And how is that even legal for a check to clear before the date I put
    > on it? I know you can't cash a paper check before the date stated on
    > it so how is this possible on an online check?


    I believe this occurs because the intent is to have the check (or EFT)
    show up on the date you told Quicken to do this. In other words, in
    order to be sure the "check" gets there the 15th, Quicken tells your bank
    to take the money out of your account on the 13th, so that there are 2
    days to make sure the check/EFT gets there on time. In the case of
    actual checks (not EFTs) by USPS snailmail, the lead time is probably
    more like 5 business days, not 2.

    To avoid this, I have authorized utilities etc. to "pull" the money out
    of my checking account on the payment due date. That way, the payee is
    responsible for getting the money on time, and I get to use the "float".
    I know some people are hesitant to do this, but anytime you have sent
    them an actualcheck,they have all the info on your checking account
    already.

    --
    Best regards
    Han
    email address is invalid
     
    DotCom2, Jun 14, 2011
    #3
  4. DotCom2

    Han Guest

    "DotCom2" <> wrote in news:it813v$efe$:

    > I *think* I understand what you are saying, but can it ever be more
    > than two days?
    > Because if so that can be pretty scary.


    You'll have to read what it says when you enter a transaction to be paid to
    an individual of whom you do not know his bank routing number and account
    number. I do believe it can be up to 5 days in that case. I believe the 2
    days is only for transactions made by EFT.
    --
    Best regards
    Han
    email address is invalid
     
    Han, Jun 14, 2011
    #4
  5. DotCom2

    DotCom2 Guest

    OK thank you very much

    "Han" wrote in message news:Xns9F04855D67FAEikkezelf@216.151.153.161...

    "DotCom2" <> wrote in news:it813v$efe$:

    > I *think* I understand what you are saying, but can it ever be more
    > than two days?
    > Because if so that can be pretty scary.


    You'll have to read what it says when you enter a transaction to be paid to
    an individual of whom you do not know his bank routing number and account
    number. I do believe it can be up to 5 days in that case. I believe the 2
    days is only for transactions made by EFT.
    --
    Best regards
    Han
    email address is invalid
     
    DotCom2, Jun 14, 2011
    #5
  6. DotCom2

    John Pollard Guest

    "DotCom2" wrote

    > OK thank you very much


    Not all billpayers handle this the same way.

    I use BofA-All Other States for most of my billpay transactions. When I
    schedule an online bill payment at BofA, I am telling BofA the date I want
    the payment delivered. They do not take the money from my account until
    the delivery date ... even if the payee gets a check and doesn't cash the
    check for a month after the delivery date. I consider that a fair
    arrangement.

    The only affect the lead time has is that I can't schedule a payment to be
    delivered in two days (for example) if the payee must be paid by check
    (for which BofA requires 4 days lead time). EFT payments usually take only
    1 day lead time.

    --

    John Pollard
    news://<YOUR-NNTP-NEWSERVER-HERE>/alt.comp.software.financial.quicken
    Your source of user-to-user Quicken help
     
    John Pollard, Jun 14, 2011
    #6
  7. DotCom2

    DotCom2 Guest

    I am going to call Wells Fargo tomorrow and find out why this was paid 2
    days sooner than I set it up for.
    Thank you for your response.

    "John Pollard" wrote in message news:it8i4s$66u$...

    "DotCom2" wrote

    > OK thank you very much


    Not all billpayers handle this the same way.

    I use BofA-All Other States for most of my billpay transactions. When I
    schedule an online bill payment at BofA, I am telling BofA the date I want
    the payment delivered. They do not take the money from my account until
    the delivery date ... even if the payee gets a check and doesn't cash the
    check for a month after the delivery date. I consider that a fair
    arrangement.

    The only affect the lead time has is that I can't schedule a payment to be
    delivered in two days (for example) if the payee must be paid by check
    (for which BofA requires 4 days lead time). EFT payments usually take only
    1 day lead time.

    --

    John Pollard
    news://<YOUR-NNTP-NEWSERVER-HERE>/alt.comp.software.financial.quicken
    Your source of user-to-user Quicken help
     
    DotCom2, Jun 15, 2011
    #7
  8. DotCom2 wrote:
    > I setup an online check to be paid to my health ins. for $1680.00 for
    > this Wed. the 15th.
    > However it cleared my bank account this Monday the 13th! Two days early!
    > It did not cause my account to be over drafted but I could see the
    > potential that it certainly could have.
    >

    If I setup an online check with Wachovia for the 15th, that is usually
    the date my account is debited. However, when I transfer to Wells Fargo
    in the next month, Wells Fargo stated the following on page 12 of the
    "Transition Guide", under Online Bill Pay:

    "At Wells Fargo, funds to pay your bills will be withdrawn from your
    account up to five business days earlier than they were at Wachovia".
    Sounds like your lucky if they only debited your account 2 days early
    when they could have debited it up to 5 business days early.
     
    Arnie Goetchius, Jun 16, 2011
    #8
  9. DotCom2

    Guest

    On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 18:29:05 -0400, Arnie Goetchius
    <> wrote:

    >DotCom2 wrote:
    >> I setup an online check to be paid to my health ins. for $1680.00 for
    >> this Wed. the 15th.
    >> However it cleared my bank account this Monday the 13th! Two days early!
    >> It did not cause my account to be over drafted but I could see the
    >> potential that it certainly could have.
    >>

    >If I setup an online check with Wachovia for the 15th, that is usually
    >the date my account is debited. However, when I transfer to Wells Fargo
    >in the next month, Wells Fargo stated the following on page 12 of the
    >"Transition Guide", under Online Bill Pay:
    >
    >"At Wells Fargo, funds to pay your bills will be withdrawn from your
    >account up to five business days earlier than they were at Wachovia".
    >Sounds like your lucky if they only debited your account 2 days early
    >when they could have debited it up to 5 business days early.
    >
    >
    >

    I just did this conversion yesterday. I'll keep an eye out for the
    timing changes. I'm interested in whether Quicken bill pay will use
    this to change to allowed scheduled date.

    I wonder what their reason is for this change? Don't all these banks
    use the same service for the Quicken bill pay?
    >
    >
     
    , Jun 17, 2011
    #9
  10. wrote:
    > On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 18:29:05 -0400, Arnie Goetchius
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> DotCom2 wrote:
    >>> I setup an online check to be paid to my health ins. for $1680.00 for
    >>> this Wed. the 15th.
    >>> However it cleared my bank account this Monday the 13th! Two days early!
    >>> It did not cause my account to be over drafted but I could see the
    >>> potential that it certainly could have.
    >>>

    >> If I setup an online check with Wachovia for the 15th, that is usually
    >> the date my account is debited. However, when I transfer to Wells Fargo
    >> in the next month, Wells Fargo stated the following on page 12 of the
    >> "Transition Guide", under Online Bill Pay:
    >>
    >> "At Wells Fargo, funds to pay your bills will be withdrawn from your
    >> account up to five business days earlier than they were at Wachovia".
    >> Sounds like your lucky if they only debited your account 2 days early
    >> when they could have debited it up to 5 business days early.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    > I just did this conversion yesterday. I'll keep an eye out for the
    > timing changes. I'm interested in whether Quicken bill pay will use
    > this to change to allowed scheduled date.
    >
    > I wonder what their reason is for this change? Don't all these banks
    > use the same service for the Quicken bill pay?
    >>

    I do not know. Perhaps each bank that uses Quicken Bill Pay can tweak
    the time when funds can be withdrawn?
     
    Arnie Goetchius, Jun 17, 2011
    #10
  11. If you use quicken to schedule a Wells Fargo bill pay, the payments are
    done correctly - you are charged on the deliver date. If you schedule
    payments on the web, they are charged on the send date.
     
    Marc Auslander, Jun 17, 2011
    #11
  12. DotCom2

    DotCom2 Guest

    I called Wells Fargo yesterday and they said it was all Citi Banks fault and
    WF had nothing to do with it. They said WF has to make sure they get the
    check on time. I told the lady I realize this but how was it my Insurance
    Co was able to cash it two days prior that it shows on the date field. ( I
    looked up a photo copy of the actual check quicken sent online). She said
    that I need to talk to Citi Bank on how they allowed this. I didn't call
    citi bank though. I know that in snail mail if I make out a check and date
    it say, the 30th but I send it out in the mail on the first, the person
    receiving that check can not cash it and will be turned away from the
    cashing bank until the 30th! At least that's how it used to be in the Old
    Days. :) I guess I'm going to have to keep a larger amount in my checking
    account to make up for earlier that posted pay dates. What bothers me is
    that if I had say Direct Deposit on the same day each month and I go on
    vacation and want to set up all my bills to be paid before I leave but know
    my DD date and set up my payments after that Direct Deposit date, I better
    make sure I transfer more outta my savings account in case they pull this
    again!
    It's just not right IMHO. I can see sending a payment early enough to get
    there on time, but the ability to cash it before the date posted is just not
    right!
     
    DotCom2, Jun 18, 2011
    #12
  13. DotCom2

    DotCom2 Guest

    Good GRIEF!
    Thanks for letting us know!

    "Arnie Goetchius" wrote in message news:itdvrj$3l1$...

    DotCom2 wrote:
    > I setup an online check to be paid to my health ins. for $1680.00 for
    > this Wed. the 15th.
    > However it cleared my bank account this Monday the 13th! Two days early!
    > It did not cause my account to be over drafted but I could see the
    > potential that it certainly could have.
    >

    If I setup an online check with Wachovia for the 15th, that is usually
    the date my account is debited. However, when I transfer to Wells Fargo
    in the next month, Wells Fargo stated the following on page 12 of the
    "Transition Guide", under Online Bill Pay:

    "At Wells Fargo, funds to pay your bills will be withdrawn from your
    account up to five business days earlier than they were at Wachovia".
    Sounds like your lucky if they only debited your account 2 days early
    when they could have debited it up to 5 business days early.
     
    DotCom2, Jun 18, 2011
    #13
  14. DotCom2

    Han Guest

    "DotCom2" <> wrote in news:itifl1$2qg$:

    > I know that in snail mail if I make out a check and date
    > it say, the 30th but I send it out in the mail on the first, the
    > person receiving that check can not cash it and will be turned away
    > from the cashing bank until the 30th! At least that's how it used to
    > be in the Old Days. :)


    You're right. That's how it used to be in the old days. That's very old
    history now.
    If I have the check now, no matter what is says, I'm going to cash it
    now!!!
    <VBGrin>
    --
    Best regards
    Han
    email address is invalid
     
    Han, Jun 18, 2011
    #14
  15. "DotCom2" <> wrote:

    > I know that in snail mail if I make out a check and date
    >it say, the 30th but I send it out in the mail on the first, the person
    >receiving that check can not cash it and will be turned away from the
    >cashing bank until the 30th! At least that's how it used to be in the Old
    >Days. :)


    Payment processing is so automated these days that humans rarely get involved.
    If your bank cuts a check and it arrives a few days early, noone is going to
    stop and hold the check until the check date.
     
    Robert Neville, Jun 18, 2011
    #15
  16. DotCom2

    John Pollard Guest

    "DotCom2" <> wrote

    > I know that in snail mail if I make
    > out a check and date it say, the 30th but I send it out
    > in the mail on the first, the person receiving that check
    > can not cash it and will be turned away from the cashing
    > bank until the 30th!


    I think you should check with your bank ... and perhaps seek some
    additiional legal help, before you stick with this assumption.

    State laws may apply; and I believe that in many cases, your bank is not
    required to honor the date on your check unless you have formally notified
    them in advance of the specifics of the post-dated check.

    --

    John Pollard
    news://<YOUR-NNTP-NEWSERVER-HERE>/alt.comp.software.financial.quicken
    Your source of user-to-user Quicken help
     
    John Pollard, Jun 18, 2011
    #16
  17. DotCom2

    DotCom2 Guest

    I'm not "sticking with this assumption" obviously.
    I was just stating how it used to be.
    That's all.

    "John Pollard" wrote in message news:itioo5$ujm$...

    "DotCom2" <> wrote

    > I know that in snail mail if I make
    > out a check and date it say, the 30th but I send it out
    > in the mail on the first, the person receiving that check
    > can not cash it and will be turned away from the cashing
    > bank until the 30th!


    I think you should check with your bank ... and perhaps seek some
    additiional legal help, before you stick with this assumption.

    State laws may apply; and I believe that in many cases, your bank is not
    required to honor the date on your check unless you have formally notified
    them in advance of the specifics of the post-dated check.

    --

    John Pollard
    news://<YOUR-NNTP-NEWSERVER-HERE>/alt.comp.software.financial.quicken
    Your source of user-to-user Quicken help
     
    DotCom2, Jun 18, 2011
    #17
  18. DotCom2

    Ken Blake Guest

    On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:50 -0600, Robert Neville <>
    wrote:

    > "DotCom2" <> wrote:
    >
    > > I know that in snail mail if I make out a check and date
    > >it say, the 30th but I send it out in the mail on the first, the person
    > >receiving that check can not cash it and will be turned away from the
    > >cashing bank until the 30th! At least that's how it used to be in the Old
    > >Days. :)

    >
    > Payment processing is so automated these days that humans rarely get involved.
    > If your bank cuts a check and it arrives a few days early, noone is going to
    > stop and hold the check until the check date.



    Even when humans are involved, they don't always notice or do anything
    about such issues. I have more than once cashed or deposited such a
    check, post-dated, by giving it to a cashier at a bank, and had no
    problem.

    Once, a number of years ago, I even deposited a check that the person
    who sent it to me had forgotten to sign!


    --
    Ken Blake
     
    Ken Blake, Jun 18, 2011
    #18
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