Check Endorsements: What are the different types?

Discussion in 'UK Finance' started by DarkProtoman, Oct 13, 2006.

  1. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    What are the different types of check endorsements, and what does each
    one mean? And what's the difference b/w "for deposit" and "for
    collection"? Thanks!!!!!
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. DarkProtoman

    John Boyle Guest

    In message <>,
    DarkProtoman <> writes
    >What are the different types of check endorsements, and what does each
    >one mean? And what's the difference b/w "for deposit" and "for
    >collection"? Thanks!!!!!
    >

    Are you sure this a UK question? Your answer will determine my answer.
    --
    John Boyle
     
    John Boyle, Oct 14, 2006
    #2
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  3. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    John Boyle wrote:
    > In message <>,
    > DarkProtoman <> writes
    > >What are the different types of check endorsements, and what does each
    > >one mean? And what's the difference b/w "for deposit" and "for
    > >collection"? Thanks!!!!!
    > >

    > Are you sure this a UK question? Your answer will determine my answer.
    > --
    > John Boyle


    I'm in America, but this is the only general finance group I can find.
    The concepts should be the same for both countries. Thanks!!!!!
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 14, 2006
    #3
  4. DarkProtoman

    Peter King Guest

    DarkProtoman wrote:
    > John Boyle wrote:
    > > In message <>,
    > > DarkProtoman <> writes
    > > >What are the different types of check endorsements, and what does each
    > > >one mean? And what's the difference b/w "for deposit" and "for
    > > >collection"? Thanks!!!!!
    > > >

    > > Are you sure this a UK question? Your answer will determine my answer.
    > > --
    > > John Boyle

    >
    > I'm in America, but this is the only general finance group I can find.
    > The concepts should be the same for both countries. Thanks!!!!!


    The concepts are completly different
     
    Peter King, Oct 14, 2006
    #4
  5. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    Peter King wrote:
    > DarkProtoman wrote:
    > > John Boyle wrote:
    > > > In message <>,
    > > > DarkProtoman <> writes
    > > > >What are the different types of check endorsements, and what does each
    > > > >one mean? And what's the difference b/w "for deposit" and "for
    > > > >collection"? Thanks!!!!!
    > > > >
    > > > Are you sure this a UK question? Your answer will determine my answer.
    > > > --
    > > > John Boyle

    > >
    > > I'm in America, but this is the only general finance group I can find.
    > > The concepts should be the same for both countries. Thanks!!!!!

    >
    > The concepts are completly different


    How?
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 14, 2006
    #5
  6. DarkProtoman

    John Boyle Guest

    In message <>,
    DarkProtoman <> writes
    >
    >John Boyle wrote:
    >> In message <>,
    >> DarkProtoman <> writes
    >> >What are the different types of check endorsements, and what does each
    >> >one mean? And what's the difference b/w "for deposit" and "for
    >> >collection"? Thanks!!!!!
    >> >

    >> Are you sure this a UK question? Your answer will determine my answer.
    >> --
    >> John Boyle

    >
    >I'm in America, but this is the only general finance group I can find.
    >The concepts should be the same for both countries. Thanks!!!!!
    >

    Sadly they are not. for example, the two terms you describe do not exist
    as 'endorsements' to cheques in UK. Whilst our Bills of Exchange Act
    and the practices contained within it is largely copied around the world
    and the terms of the Uniform Rules for the Collection of Commercial
    Paper is an international standard, Our 1957 Cheques Act and its more
    recent amendments together with our bank clearing system make us quite
    different to US practice.

    It was obvious that your spelling of cheque and the basis of you
    question was not a matter that could be answered in UK Banking Law.

    None the less I think I can cast some light on it, but I may be wrong.
    'For deposit' is likely to mean that when the payee pays the cheque into
    his account at his bank that bank will credit his account right away but
    will mark the funds as 'awaiting collection'. i.e. waiting to be paid
    for the cheque.

    'For collection' is likely to mean that whilst the bank might give the
    payee a receipt, his account wont be credited until the collecting bank
    (i.e. the one where the payee has paid it in) gets the money from the
    drawee (i.e. the bank upon which the drawer has drawn the cheque).

    HTH
    --
    John Boyle
     
    John Boyle, Oct 14, 2006
    #6
  7. DarkProtoman

    John Boyle Guest

    In message <>, John Boyle
    <> writes
    >None the less I think I can cast some light on it, but I may be wrong.
    >'For deposit' is likely to mean that when the payee pays the cheque
    >into his account at his bank that bank will credit his account right
    >away but will mark the funds as 'awaiting collection'. i.e. waiting to
    >be paid for the cheque.
    >


    Just realised I forgot to add that this crossing' could also mean that
    the cheque cant be 'cashed', it can only be paid into a bank account.

    Also, in US when you say 'endorsement', in UK we say 'crossing' or
    'restricted crossing'. In UK, 'endorsement' is when the rear of the
    cheque is signed by the holder and passed to another holder.
    --
    John Boyle
     
    John Boyle, Oct 14, 2006
    #7
  8. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    John Boyle wrote:
    > In message <>, John Boyle
    > <> writes
    > >None the less I think I can cast some light on it, but I may be wrong.
    > >'For deposit' is likely to mean that when the payee pays the cheque
    > >into his account at his bank that bank will credit his account right
    > >away but will mark the funds as 'awaiting collection'. i.e. waiting to
    > >be paid for the cheque.
    > >

    >
    > Just realised I forgot to add that this crossing' could also mean that
    > the cheque cant be 'cashed', it can only be paid into a bank account.
    >
    > Also, in US when you say 'endorsement', in UK we say 'crossing' or
    > 'restricted crossing'. In UK, 'endorsement' is when the rear of the
    > cheque is signed by the holder and passed to another holder.
    > --
    > John Boyle


    The US has the latter, which is called a blank endorsement; crossing is
    achieved by the payee writing "For Deposit Only/Acct. #/Signed Name"
    on the back.
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 14, 2006
    #8
  9. DarkProtoman

    John Boyle Guest

    In message <>,
    DarkProtoman <> writes
    >
    >John Boyle wrote:
    >> In message <>, John Boyle
    >> <> writes
    >> >None the less I think I can cast some light on it, but I may be wrong.
    >> >'For deposit' is likely to mean that when the payee pays the cheque
    >> >into his account at his bank that bank will credit his account right
    >> >away but will mark the funds as 'awaiting collection'. i.e. waiting to
    >> >be paid for the cheque.
    >> >

    >>
    >> Just realised I forgot to add that this crossing' could also mean that
    >> the cheque cant be 'cashed', it can only be paid into a bank account.
    >>
    >> Also, in US when you say 'endorsement', in UK we say 'crossing' or
    >> 'restricted crossing'. In UK, 'endorsement' is when the rear of the
    >> cheque is signed by the holder and passed to another holder.
    >> --
    >> John Boyle

    >
    >The US has the latter, which is called a blank endorsement;


    Same here, but if the cheque bears two parallel straight lines then
    there are restrictions on title by negotiability, bit not
    transferability.
    >crossing is
    >achieved by the payee writing "For Deposit Only/Acct. #/Signed Name"
    >on the back.
    >


    This is another example of the differences between UK & US. These days
    UK cheques are generally preprinted with the restrictive crossing
    'account payee only' which restricts negotiability but not
    transferability/ In UK such a restriction needs to be 'on the face of
    it' not the rear. In any event the restriction would be a 'crossing' not
    an 'endorsement'. So whilst you say that 'crossing is achieved', I would
    challenge your assertion that 'US has the latter' because it plainly
    doesnt because it would appear in US the words are on the rear of the
    cheque not the face.



    --
    John Boyle
     
    John Boyle, Oct 15, 2006
    #9
  10. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    John Boyle wrote:
    > In message <>,
    > DarkProtoman <> writes
    > >
    > >John Boyle wrote:
    > >> In message <>, John Boyle
    > >> <> writes
    > >> >None the less I think I can cast some light on it, but I may be wrong.
    > >> >'For deposit' is likely to mean that when the payee pays the cheque
    > >> >into his account at his bank that bank will credit his account right
    > >> >away but will mark the funds as 'awaiting collection'. i.e. waiting to
    > >> >be paid for the cheque.
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> Just realised I forgot to add that this crossing' could also mean that
    > >> the cheque cant be 'cashed', it can only be paid into a bank account.
    > >>
    > >> Also, in US when you say 'endorsement', in UK we say 'crossing' or
    > >> 'restricted crossing'. In UK, 'endorsement' is when the rear of the
    > >> cheque is signed by the holder and passed to another holder.
    > >> --
    > >> John Boyle

    > >
    > >The US has the latter, which is called a blank endorsement;

    >
    > Same here, but if the cheque bears two parallel straight lines then
    > there are restrictions on title by negotiability, bit not
    > transferability.
    > >crossing is
    > >achieved by the payee writing "For Deposit Only/Acct. #/Signed Name"
    > >on the back.
    > >

    >
    > This is another example of the differences between UK & US. These days
    > UK cheques are generally preprinted with the restrictive crossing
    > 'account payee only' which restricts negotiability but not
    > transferability/ In UK such a restriction needs to be 'on the face of
    > it' not the rear. In any event the restriction would be a 'crossing' not
    > an 'endorsement'. So whilst you say that 'crossing is achieved', I would
    > challenge your assertion that 'US has the latter' because it plainly
    > doesnt because it would appear in US the words are on the rear of the
    > cheque not the face.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > John Boyle


    But it acheives the same effect, doesn't it? And what does
    "non-negotiability" mean? How can a check, a negotiable instrument of
    payment, be used if it's not? Wouldn't that be voiding it?
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 15, 2006
    #10
  11. DarkProtoman

    John Boyle Guest

    In message <>,
    DarkProtoman <> writes
    >But it acheives the same effect, doesn't it?


    Oh yes! but only in the respective country. If a cheque duly
    crossed/endorsed were presented in the other country then it wouldn't
    work!

    >And what does
    >"non-negotiability" mean?


    It means the instrument loses its negotiability. I.e. a it is not
    possible for a holder of a cheque subsequent to the payee which bears
    the crossing "a/c payee only" to obtain the status of a 'holder in due
    course'.
    >How can a check, a negotiable instrument of
    >payment, be used if it's not?


    These days a cheque can usually achieve almost all its uses despite
    losing its negotiability just so long as the payee doesnt endorse the
    cheque and attempt to assign it to somebody else other than the
    collecting bank.

    >Wouldn't that be voiding it?
    >


    I cant see why.

    Your earlier post said "The concepts should be the same for both
    countries. " and in answer to another post asserting that "
    The concepts are completly different" you said "why?"

    Perhaps this thread is showing you that things are very different.
    --
    John Boyle
     
    John Boyle, Oct 15, 2006
    #11
  12. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    John Boyle wrote:
    > In message <>,
    > DarkProtoman <> writes
    > >But it acheives the same effect, doesn't it?

    >
    > Oh yes! but only in the respective country. If a cheque duly
    > crossed/endorsed were presented in the other country then it wouldn't
    > work!
    >
    > >And what does
    > >"non-negotiability" mean?

    >
    > It means the instrument loses its negotiability. I.e. a it is not
    > possible for a holder of a cheque subsequent to the payee which bears
    > the crossing "a/c payee only" to obtain the status of a 'holder in due
    > course'.
    > >How can a check, a negotiable instrument of
    > >payment, be used if it's not?

    >
    > These days a cheque can usually achieve almost all its uses despite
    > losing its negotiability just so long as the payee doesnt endorse the
    > cheque and attempt to assign it to somebody else other than the
    > collecting bank.
    >
    > >Wouldn't that be voiding it?
    > >

    >
    > I cant see why.
    >
    > Your earlier post said "The concepts should be the same for both
    > countries. " and in answer to another post asserting that "
    > The concepts are completly different" you said "why?"
    >
    > Perhaps this thread is showing you that things are very different.
    > --
    > John Boyle


    If I went to Britain and used my checkbook, and the clerk doesn't
    notice, what would happen? Would they send it to the FX to get it
    changed into GBPs? What if I used my debit or credit card?
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 15, 2006
    #12
  13. DarkProtoman

    John Boyle Guest

    In message <>,
    DarkProtoman <> writes
    >
    >If I went to Britain and used my checkbook, and the clerk doesn't
    >notice, what would happen?


    ?? I dont understand. Are you saying that if you went to bank in UK and
    tried to cash a cheque drawn on your US bank and that the cashier
    'doesnt notice'? I cant see that happening as your cheque will have the
    name of your US bank all over it, US cheques are generally printed
    differently to ours and it will have $ signs on it, it will be rejected
    by the scanner (if used) because US cheques have a different encoding
    system to us, she wont have any way of checking your signature or your
    balance, so it wouldnt happen.
    >Would they send it to the FX to get it
    >changed into GBPs?


    If you are trying to 'cash' the cheque for Sterling BoE Notes then if
    you had no arrangement with that bank, and assuming you have satisfied
    all the ID requirements then the cheque would be sent for collection to
    your own bank in US. If the cheque was drawn un Dollars, then the US
    bank would send Dollars to the UKs correspondent bank in US who would
    then instruct the UK branch of the correspondent to credit the UK bank
    with the equivalent amount in sterling. The conversion will take place
    in US. When this is done then you would get your dosh.

    >What if I used my debit or credit card?
    >

    Your card would be charged in Sterling and your bank would exchange that
    into Dollars when it debits your acocunt.
    --
    John Boyle
     
    John Boyle, Oct 15, 2006
    #13
  14. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    John Boyle wrote:
    > In message <>,
    > DarkProtoman <> writes
    > >
    > >If I went to Britain and used my checkbook, and the clerk doesn't
    > >notice, what would happen?

    >
    > ?? I dont understand. Are you saying that if you went to bank in UK and
    > tried to cash a cheque drawn on your US bank and that the cashier
    > 'doesnt notice'? I cant see that happening as your cheque will have the
    > name of your US bank all over it, US cheques are generally printed
    > differently to ours and it will have $ signs on it, it will be rejected
    > by the scanner (if used) because US cheques have a different encoding
    > system to us, she wont have any way of checking your signature or your
    > balance, so it wouldnt happen.
    > >Would they send it to the FX to get it
    > >changed into GBPs?

    >
    > If you are trying to 'cash' the cheque for Sterling BoE Notes then if
    > you had no arrangement with that bank, and assuming you have satisfied
    > all the ID requirements then the cheque would be sent for collection to
    > your own bank in US. If the cheque was drawn un Dollars, then the US
    > bank would send Dollars to the UKs correspondent bank in US who would
    > then instruct the UK branch of the correspondent to credit the UK bank
    > with the equivalent amount in sterling. The conversion will take place
    > in US. When this is done then you would get your dosh.
    >
    > >What if I used my debit or credit card?
    > >

    > Your card would be charged in Sterling and your bank would exchange that
    > into Dollars when it debits your acocunt.
    > --
    > John Boyle


    Do you know if Bank of America has a branch in England? Their website
    gives me no help? If I tried to cash/deposit a check drawn on my US
    branch with the UK branch, would they let me? Would I get charged a
    currency conversion fee? When I said clerk, I meant a store clerk. Like
    if I pay for a meal at one of your restraunts. Not a bank teller.
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 15, 2006
    #14
  15. DarkProtoman

    John Boyle Guest

    In message <>,
    DarkProtoman <> writes
    >Do you know if Bank of America has a branch in England? Their website
    >gives me no help?


    http://corp.bankofamerica.com/public/products/regions/emea.jsp#

    5 Canada Square
    London E14 5AQ
    United Kingdom
    Tel: +44 20 7174 4000
    Fax: +44 20 7174 6400


    >If I tried to cash/deposit a check drawn on my US
    >branch with the UK branch, would they let me?


    Its highly unlikely that it is a branch with a counter service for cash
    transactions.

    >Would I get charged a
    >currency conversion fee?

    If you drew Sterling, the yes.

    >When I said clerk, I meant a store clerk. Like
    >if I pay for a meal at one of your restraunts. Not a bank teller.


    Ah, sorry. In that case the scenario of the clerk not noticing is just
    as unlikely because cheques arent used as much these days (plastic being
    the main way) for counter purchases and when they are they usually have
    to be supported by a Cheque Guarantee Card which you would be unlikely
    to have. None gthe less these cards generally wont guarantee cheques
    over £250 so cheques have use for larger anounts.. If you were able to
    present a cheque though, and it was drawn in sterling then the procedure
    I described in my previous post would still apply, i.e. the cheque would
    be sent for collection. In days gone by US cheques took an age to
    collect because the US clearing system and its multitude of small banks
    made things very slow.
    >


    --
    John Boyle
     
    John Boyle, Oct 15, 2006
    #15
  16. DarkProtoman wrote:

    > When I said clerk, I meant a store clerk. Like
    > if I pay for a meal at one of your restraunts. Not a bank teller.


    Your chances of using a US check in a UK retail outlet are close to
    zero. Cheques are on the way out - for example few gas stations now
    accept them - and you would need a cheque quarantee card in other retail
    locations. I can't see you producing one.
     
    Colin Forrester, Oct 15, 2006
    #16
  17. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    Colin Forrester wrote:
    > DarkProtoman wrote:
    >
    > > When I said clerk, I meant a store clerk. Like
    > > if I pay for a meal at one of your restraunts. Not a bank teller.

    >
    > Your chances of using a US check in a UK retail outlet are close to
    > zero. Cheques are on the way out - for example few gas stations now
    > accept them - and you would need a cheque quarantee card in other retail
    > locations. I can't see you producing one.


    What about my debit/credit card? I have a balance in my checking
    account of USD2700; how many GBPs is that?
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 15, 2006
    #17
  18. DarkProtoman wrote:

    >>> When I said clerk, I meant a store clerk. Like
    >>> if I pay for a meal at one of your restraunts. Not a bank teller.


    >> Your chances of using a US check in a UK retail outlet are close to
    >> zero. Cheques are on the way out - for example few gas stations now
    >> accept them - and you would need a cheque quarantee card in other retail
    >> locations. I can't see you producing one.


    > What about my debit/credit card? I have a balance in my checking
    > account of USD2700; how many GBPs is that?


    Your credit card will almost certainly be accepted in most retail
    outlets - your debit card may not. You could post the type/name of the
    cards here for further feedback.

    USD 2700 = GBP 1455 (source FT.com)
     
    Colin Forrester, Oct 15, 2006
    #18
  19. DarkProtoman

    John Boyle Guest

    In message <>,
    DarkProtoman <> writes
    >
    >Colin Forrester wrote:
    >> DarkProtoman wrote:
    >>
    >> > When I said clerk, I meant a store clerk. Like
    >> > if I pay for a meal at one of your restraunts. Not a bank teller.

    >>
    >> Your chances of using a US check in a UK retail outlet are close to
    >> zero. Cheques are on the way out - for example few gas stations now
    >> accept them - and you would need a cheque quarantee card in other retail
    >> locations. I can't see you producing one.

    >
    >What about my debit/credit card? I have a balance in my checking
    >account of USD2700; how many GBPs is that?
    >


    Look it up at your banks forex dept.
    --
    John Boyle
     
    John Boyle, Oct 15, 2006
    #19
  20. DarkProtoman

    DarkProtoman Guest

    Colin Forrester wrote:
    > DarkProtoman wrote:
    >
    > >>> When I said clerk, I meant a store clerk. Like
    > >>> if I pay for a meal at one of your restraunts. Not a bank teller.

    >
    > >> Your chances of using a US check in a UK retail outlet are close to
    > >> zero. Cheques are on the way out - for example few gas stations now
    > >> accept them - and you would need a cheque quarantee card in other retail
    > >> locations. I can't see you producing one.

    >
    > > What about my debit/credit card? I have a balance in my checking
    > > account of USD2700; how many GBPs is that?

    >
    > Your credit card will almost certainly be accepted in most retail
    > outlets - your debit card may not. You could post the type/name of the
    > cards here for further feedback.
    >
    > USD 2700 = GBP 1455 (source FT.com)


    My credit card is American Express Blue Cash; debit is Visa Platinum
    Check Card. And, is GBP1455 a lot, or a little, balance?
     
    DarkProtoman, Oct 16, 2006
    #20
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