CPA new to e-filing; form 8453 or 8879?

Discussion in 'Tax' started by David Haffey, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. David Haffey

    David Haffey Guest

    I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new at
    this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
    signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
    8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
    Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
    Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
    between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
    the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
    other does not. Am I missing something important?

    David L. Haffey, CPA

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    David Haffey, Feb 3, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. "David Haffey" <> wrote:

    > I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new at
    > this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
    > signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
    > 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
    > Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
    > Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
    > between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
    > the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
    > other does not. Am I missing something important?


    I prefer the 8879. Why add another layer of administrative
    work in your office? The 8453 forms must be mailed to the
    IRS within three days of acceptance. Yes, I know there are
    offices out there that do a weekly mailing of the forms, but
    that is not the instructions given. Granted you only need
    retain the 8453 until December of this year, but how many of
    us have bulging retained files stretching back to the stone
    age - ample proof that we do not shred, even when we legally
    could. The 8879 forms need to be kept the full three years,
    as normal tax documentation is kept, so I don't have to
    think - the forms are kept the same length of time as the
    regular tax forms.

    Therese Thomas, EA

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Therese Thomas, EA, Feb 4, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. David Haffey wrote:

    > The only real difference
    > between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
    > the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
    > other does not.


    That's pretty much it. No mailing is a better choice for us
    than mailing.

    Phoebe :)

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Phoebe Roberts, EA, Feb 4, 2004
    #3
  4. David Haffey wrote:

    > I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new at
    > this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
    > signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
    > 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
    > Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
    > Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
    > between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
    > the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
    > other does not. Am I missing something important?


    Not missing a thing. If the return qualifies for form 8879,
    that is definitely the way to go. Saves up to 37 cents,
    too.

    Cheer$,
    Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
    been efiling since 1989.

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Harlan Lunsford, Feb 5, 2004
    #4
  5. David Haffey <> wrote:

    > I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new at
    > this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
    > signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
    > 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
    > Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
    > Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
    > between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
    > the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
    > other does not. Am I missing something important?


    If you can use the 8879, it is far simpler.

    Since the 8453 has to be mailed in, and the IRS loses some
    of them from time to time, it can end up being a mild pain.

    Unfortunately there are some cases where you cannot file an
    8879 and have to file the 8453, such as young kids filing
    for the first time, anyone for whom last year's AGI is
    unknown, returns with certain attachments like Form 8332 or
    2120, and some others.

    __
    Art Kamlet ArtKamlet @ AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Arthur Kamlet, Feb 5, 2004
    #5
  6. >> I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new
    >> at this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
    >> signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why?
    >> Form 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an
    >> IRS e-file Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature
    >> Authorization. Both require a client's signature. The only
    >> real difference between them that I can see is that one
    >> has to be mailed to the IRS following acceptance of the
    >> e-filed return and the other does not. Am I missing
    >> something important?


    I chose the 8453 for past years because of having to enter
    the AGI and pin for the 8879. It was no big deal to send the
    forms in once a week.

    However, I'm considering the 8879 this year because I'm
    tired of the IRS contacting me several months after April 15
    and saying that they didn't receive the 8453 forms for about
    5 clients (they give me the SSN of the ones they didn't get)

    Jan Zobel EA
    Oakland, CA

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    JanZtaxNOSPAM, Feb 5, 2004
    #6
  7. David Haffey

    Ernie Betts Guest

    "Phoebe Roberts, EA" <> wrote:
    > David Haffey wrote:


    >> The only real difference
    >> between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
    >> the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
    >> other does not.


    > That's pretty much it. No mailing is a better choice for us
    > than mailing.


    And IRS is always coming back in the summer asking for
    copies of 8453's they claim they never got. I did one 5
    times a couple of years ago and it had a 15 page POA. They
    claim they never received. 8879 is the way to go if
    possible. We do about 4,000 e-files a year and only now do
    a hand full of 8453's. Ernie

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Ernie Betts, Feb 5, 2004
    #7
  8. > I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new at
    > this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
    > signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
    > 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
    > Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
    > Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
    > between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
    > the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
    > other does not. Am I missing something important?


    8879, you don't have to mail it in.

    Helen, EA in PA
    Member of The Tax Gang
    Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
    Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Helen P. OPlanick EA, Feb 5, 2004
    #8
  9. David Haffey

    Don Priebe Guest

    > Unfortunately there are some cases where you cannot file an
    > 8879 and have to file the 8453, such as young kids filing
    > for the first time, anyone for whom last year's AGI is
    > unknown, returns with certain attachments like Form 8332 or
    > 2120, and some others.


    You do not have to know the prior year AGI (or birthday) if
    you use the Practitioner PIN method.

    --
    Don EA in Upstate NY

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Don Priebe, Feb 5, 2004
    #9
  10. > I chose the 8453 for past years because of having to enter
    > the AGI and pin for the 8879. It was no big deal to send the
    > forms in once a week.
    >
    > However, I'm considering the 8879 this year because I'm
    > tired of the IRS contacting me several months after April 15
    > and saying that they didn't receive the 8453 forms for about
    > 5 clients (they give me the SSN of the ones they didn't get)


    Jan, it depends on your software, we don't need AGI at all.
    Pin'ing is so much easier.

    Helen, EA in PA
    Member of The Tax Gang
    Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
    Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Helen P. OPlanick EA, Feb 5, 2004
    #10
  11. David Haffey

    Guest

    (Arthur Kamlet) wrote:
    > David Haffey <> wrote:


    > If you can use the 8879, it is far simpler.
    >
    > Since the 8453 has to be mailed in, and the IRS loses some
    > of them from time to time, it can end up being a mild pain.
    >
    > Unfortunately there are some cases where you cannot file an
    > 8879 and have to file the 8453, such as young kids filing
    > for the first time, anyone for whom last year's AGI is
    > unknown, returns with certain attachments like Form 8332 or
    > 2120, and some others.


    I know that the storefronts all seem to be using the 8879 so
    that there is no mailing on an efile. I wonder how they are
    handling the AGI issue on new clients? Also, where is that
    required on the forms, I am not seeing it?

    Thanks,

    bex

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    , Feb 5, 2004
    #11
  12. > I know that the storefronts all seem to be using the 8879 so
    > that there is no mailing on an efile. I wonder how they are
    > handling the AGI issue on new clients? Also, where is that
    > required on the forms, I am not seeing it?


    It is not on the 8879. IF the software requires it, it is
    an input screen only.

    Helen, EA in PA
    Member of The Tax Gang
    Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
    Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Helen P. OPlanick EA, Feb 6, 2004
    #12
  13. David Haffey

    KenB Guest

    > I chose the 8453 for past years because of having to enter
    > the AGI and pin for the 8879.


    The taxapyer is supposed to select the PIN, but you will
    waste a lot of unnecesary time while your client decides on
    the perfect PIN if you ask them for it. I usually select and
    input the PIN myself, subject of course to my client's
    approval. (This is not like your secret ATM PIN, it is only
    a number that the taxpayer authorizes as representative of
    his signature.)

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    KenB, Feb 6, 2004
    #13
  14. > I did one 5 times a couple of years ago and it had a 15 page
    > POA. They claim they never received. 8879 is the way to go
    > if possible. We do about 4,000 e-files a year and only now
    > do a hand full of 8453's.


    A couple of questions:
    What makes a POA 15 pages long?
    And, more relevant to me, what returns do you do as 8453
    forms vs. 8879 forms? (in other words, why do you do any
    with 8453 or are there some that can only be done with 8453
    forms)?

    Jan Zobel EA

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    JanZtaxNOSPAM, Feb 6, 2004
    #14
  15. >> I chose the 8453 for past years because of having to enter
    >> the AGI and pin for the 8879. It was no big deal to send the
    >> forms in once a week.
    >>
    >> However, I'm considering the 8879 this year because I'm
    >> tired of the IRS contacting me several months after April 15
    >> and saying that they didn't receive the 8453 forms for about
    >> 5 clients (they give me the SSN of the ones they didn't get)


    > Jan, it depends on your software, we don't need AGI at all.
    > Pin'ing is so much easier.


    Perhaps then your software brings forth last year's AGI
    seamlessly. But you would need it for a new client.

    Quote from IRS just today:

    "Authorized e-file providers are reminded that the prior
    year adjusted gross income must be the amount from the
    originally filed prior year return. Authentication Record
    field number 0020 and field number 0050 will allow a
    positive amount, negative amount or zero entry. To prevent
    Error Reject Codes 0679 and 0680 the field must match IRS
    Master File.

    See Publication 1346 for additional information.

    ----------
    This has been an IRS e-file QuickAlert "

    Cheer$,
    Harlan LUnsford, EA
    Phenix City, AL

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Harlan Lunsford, Feb 10, 2004
    #15
  16. >> I did one 5 times a couple of years ago and it had a 15 page
    >> POA. They claim they never received. 8879 is the way to go
    >> if possible. We do about 4,000 e-files a year and only now
    >> do a hand full of 8453's.


    > A couple of questions:
    > What makes a POA 15 pages long?
    > And, more relevant to me, what returns do you do as 8453
    > forms vs. 8879 forms? (in other words, why do you do any
    > with 8453 or are there some that can only be done with 8453
    > forms)?


    Jan, see latest pub 1345A.

    I used an 8453 just today for two brand new filers, both
    younguns.

    Also use an 8453 when you have ancillary documents to send,
    e.g. form 8332, other statements listed in the pub.

    Cheer$,
    Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Harlan Lunsford, Feb 10, 2004
    #16
  17. David Haffey

    Don Priebe Guest

    >> Jan, it depends on your software, we don't need AGI at all.
    >> Pin'ing is so much easier.


    > Perhaps then your software brings forth last year's AGI
    > seamlessly. But you would need it for a new client.


    Nope. Not when using the Practitioner's PIN. Don't need
    the AGI, don't need the birthday.

    --
    Don EA in Upstate NY

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Don Priebe, Feb 11, 2004
    #17
  18. >> Jan, it depends on your software, we don't need AGI at all.
    >> Pin'ing is so much easier.


    > Perhaps then your software brings forth last year's AGI
    > seamlessly. But you would need it for a new client.


    The Practitioner PIN program (which is the only paperless
    method Lacerte supports) doesn't require prior year AGI (or
    birthdates, IIRC).

    Phoebe :)

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Phoebe Roberts, EA, Feb 11, 2004
    #18
  19. Harlan Lunsford wrote:

    >>> I chose the 8453 for past years because of having to enter
    >>> the AGI and pin for the 8879. It was no big deal to send the
    >>> forms in once a week.
    >>>
    >>> However, I'm considering the 8879 this year because I'm
    >>> tired of the IRS contacting me several months after April 15
    >>> and saying that they didn't receive the 8453 forms for about
    >>> 5 clients (they give me the SSN of the ones they didn't get)


    >> Jan, it depends on your software, we don't need AGI at all.
    >> Pin'ing is so much easier.


    > Perhaps then your software brings forth last year's AGI
    > seamlessly. But you would need it for a new client.
    >
    > Quote from IRS just today:
    >
    > "Authorized e-file providers are reminded that the prior
    > year adjusted gross income must be the amount from the
    > originally filed prior year return. Authentication Record
    > field number 0020 and field number 0050 will allow a
    > positive amount, negative amount or zero entry. To prevent
    > Error Reject Codes 0679 and 0680 the field must match IRS
    > Master File.


    Since posting that, I noticed that on my software (Taxwise)
    PIN form, it is said that for Practitioner entered PIN,
    neither AGI nor DOB is needed.

    So then; what in the heck are they referring to above?

    Cheer$,
    Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

    << ------------------------------------------------->>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
    << messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org >>
    << ------------------------------------------------->>
     
    Harlan Lunsford, Feb 11, 2004
    #19
    1. Advertisements

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Harlan Lunsford

    Form 8453

    Harlan Lunsford, Aug 6, 2003, in forum: Tax
    Replies:
    57
    Views:
    1,422
    Harlan Lunsford
    Aug 27, 2003
  2. Helen P. OPlanick EA

    Re: Form 8453

    Helen P. OPlanick EA, Aug 13, 2003, in forum: Tax
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    333
    Frederick Jorden
    Aug 15, 2003
  3. John H. Fisher

    IRS e-file QuickAlert = Form 8453

    John H. Fisher, May 24, 2004, in forum: Tax
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    699
    John H. Fisher
    May 24, 2004
  4. John H. Fisher

    Form 8453 Programming Problem

    John H. Fisher, Aug 19, 2004, in forum: Tax
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    278
    John H. Fisher
    Aug 19, 2004
  5. John H. Fisher

    TY 2004 Form 8453 & 8453-OL Submissions

    John H. Fisher, Nov 7, 2004, in forum: Tax
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    379
    John H. Fisher
    Nov 7, 2004
Loading...

Share This Page