Hawaii nonresident income tax

Discussion in 'Tax' started by Pico Rico, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Pico Rico

    Pico Rico Guest

    If one owns a vacation rental condo in Hawaii (and that is all), a Hawaii
    state income tax return is required, regardless of whether there is any
    taxable income or not.

    The instructions say:

    Election to File Form N-15 Without Providing

    Information as to Worldwide Source Income

    In lieu of providing information as to worldwide source income, nonresident

    taxpayers (including nonresident alien taxpayers) and part-year resident
    taxpayers

    may elect to file Form N-15 without claiming any standard deduction

    or personal exemption amounts. Itemized deductions calculated using the

    ratio of Hawaii adjusted gross income to Total adjusted gross income may not

    be claimed. Also, tax credits which are based on total adjusted gross income

    from all sources may not be claimed. To make this election, enter zero on
    line

    36, Ratio of Hawaii AGI to Total AGI.



    Does this mean I can consider my California Source Income as "worldwide
    source income" and substantially ease the paperwork burden with respect to
    Hawaii?



    Also, it says you need to file a copy of your Federal return. Is this true
    if you make the above election? Yes or no, do you need to file a copy of
    ALL of the federal return, or just the 1040 itself?

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Pico Rico, Jul 10, 2012
    #1
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  2. Pico Rico

    Alan Guest

    On 7/9/12 9:10 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    > If one owns a vacation rental condo in Hawaii (and that is all), a Hawaii
    > state income tax return is required, regardless of whether there is any
    > taxable income or not.
    >
    > The instructions say:
    >
    > Election to File Form N-15 Without Providing
    >
    > Information as to Worldwide Source Income
    >
    > In lieu of providing information as to worldwide source income, nonresident
    >
    > taxpayers (including nonresident alien taxpayers) and part-year resident
    > taxpayers
    >
    > may elect to file Form N-15 without claiming any standard deduction
    >
    > or personal exemption amounts. Itemized deductions calculated using the
    >
    > ratio of Hawaii adjusted gross income to Total adjusted gross income may not
    >
    > be claimed. Also, tax credits which are based on total adjusted gross income
    >
    > from all sources may not be claimed. To make this election, enter zero on
    > line
    >
    > 36, Ratio of Hawaii AGI to Total AGI.
    >
    >
    >
    > Does this mean I can consider my California Source Income as "worldwide
    > source income" and substantially ease the paperwork burden with respect to
    > Hawaii?
    >
    >
    >
    > Also, it says you need to file a copy of your Federal return. Is this true
    > if you make the above election? Yes or no, do you need to file a copy of
    > ALL of the federal return, or just the 1040 itself?
    >

    Each year I prepare a nonresident Hawaii return for a friend who has
    rental property in Hawaii. Hawaii does not use the generally accepted
    method used by other states to calculate state tax. Most of the other
    states calculate the tax on worldwide income and apply a ratio of state
    sourced income to federal income to arrive at the tax. Hawaii calculates
    the tax by using your Hawaii sourced AGI and allows you to take
    deductions and exemptions by applying the AGI ratio to those items
    before arriving at the taxable state income. Because of this method,
    Hawaii can give you the option of foregoing any deductions, personal
    exemptions and credits by using your Hawaii AGI as your Hawaii taxable
    income. This election also allows you to avoid having to complete
    Column A, your worldwide source income. However, you are required to
    attach all forms and schedules of your federal tax return to the N-15
    whether you make the election or not.

    Just to make sure we are not talking past each other.... Column A of the
    N-15 wants your worldwide income as if you were a Hawaii resident. This
    is your federal income adjusted to Hawaii law. It's the same method that
    CA uses for nonresidents. E.g., neither CA or HI would want you to
    include taxable social security benefits in your worldwide income as
    neither state taxes those benefits. The only difference between CA and
    HI is that CA asks for your federal numbers and then gives you two
    columns to add and subtract from that to conform to CA law. HI only
    gives you one column to enter the income and adjustments based on HI law.

    If you are a CA resident and CA is taxing your HI income and you also
    pay tax to HI on that same income, CA will give you a credit for the HI
    taxes. See CA Schedule S.

    --
    Alan
    http://taxtopics.net

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Alan, Jul 10, 2012
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Pico Rico

    Pico Rico Guest

    "Alan" <> wrote in message
    news:jthirv$4tq$...
    > On 7/9/12 9:10 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >> If one owns a vacation rental condo in Hawaii (and that is all), a Hawaii
    >> state income tax return is required, regardless of whether there is any
    >> taxable income or not.
    >>
    >> The instructions say:
    >>
    >> Election to File Form N-15 Without Providing
    >>
    >> Information as to Worldwide Source Income
    >>
    >> In lieu of providing information as to worldwide source income,
    >> nonresident
    >>
    >> taxpayers (including nonresident alien taxpayers) and part-year resident
    >> taxpayers
    >>
    >> may elect to file Form N-15 without claiming any standard deduction
    >>
    >> or personal exemption amounts. Itemized deductions calculated using the
    >>
    >> ratio of Hawaii adjusted gross income to Total adjusted gross income may
    >> not
    >>
    >> be claimed. Also, tax credits which are based on total adjusted gross
    >> income
    >>
    >> from all sources may not be claimed. To make this election, enter zero on
    >> line
    >>
    >> 36, Ratio of Hawaii AGI to Total AGI.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Does this mean I can consider my California Source Income as "worldwide
    >> source income" and substantially ease the paperwork burden with respect
    >> to
    >> Hawaii?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Also, it says you need to file a copy of your Federal return. Is this
    >> true
    >> if you make the above election? Yes or no, do you need to file a copy of
    >> ALL of the federal return, or just the 1040 itself?
    >>

    > Each year I prepare a nonresident Hawaii return for a friend who has
    > rental property in Hawaii. Hawaii does not use the generally accepted
    > method used by other states to calculate state tax. Most of the other
    > states calculate the tax on worldwide income and apply a ratio of state
    > sourced income to federal income to arrive at the tax. Hawaii calculates
    > the tax by using your Hawaii sourced AGI and allows you to take deductions
    > and exemptions by applying the AGI ratio to those items before arriving at
    > the taxable state income. Because of this method, Hawaii can give you the
    > option of foregoing any deductions, personal exemptions and credits by
    > using your Hawaii AGI as your Hawaii taxable income. This election also
    > allows you to avoid having to complete Column A, your worldwide source
    > income. However, you are required to attach all forms and schedules of
    > your federal tax return to the N-15 whether you make the election or not.
    >
    > Just to make sure we are not talking past each other.... Column A of the
    > N-15 wants your worldwide income as if you were a Hawaii resident. This is
    > your federal income adjusted to Hawaii law. It's the same method that CA
    > uses for nonresidents. E.g., neither CA or HI would want you to include
    > taxable social security benefits in your worldwide income as neither state
    > taxes those benefits. The only difference between CA and HI is that CA
    > asks for your federal numbers and then gives you two columns to add and
    > subtract from that to conform to CA law. HI only gives you one column to
    > enter the income and adjustments based on HI law.
    >
    > If you are a CA resident and CA is taxing your HI income and you also pay
    > tax to HI on that same income, CA will give you a credit for the HI taxes.
    > See CA Schedule S.
    >
    > --
    > Alan
    > http://taxtopics.net


    Thank you. I don't know why, but taxpayer hates the thought of giving a
    state a copy of my federal return if it is not to be used to calculate that
    state's taxes. I tend to agree, again, without a specific reason.

    Another question: I am assuming that there would be a NOL from this rental
    activity, given depreciation, maintenance and repairs, etc. Does Hawaii
    allow NOL carryforwards (indefinitely?) for future use against positive
    income for a year, or a capital gain when the property is sold?

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Pico Rico, Jul 10, 2012
    #3
  4. Pico Rico

    Alan Guest

    On 7/10/12 1:04 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    > "Alan" <> wrote in message
    > news:jthirv$4tq$...
    >> On 7/9/12 9:10 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >>> If one owns a vacation rental condo in Hawaii (and that is all), a Hawaii
    >>> state income tax return is required, regardless of whether there is any
    >>> taxable income or not.
    >>>
    >>> The instructions say:
    >>>
    >>> Election to File Form N-15 Without Providing
    >>>
    >>> Information as to Worldwide Source Income
    >>>
    >>> In lieu of providing information as to worldwide source income,
    >>> nonresident
    >>>
    >>> taxpayers (including nonresident alien taxpayers) and part-year resident
    >>> taxpayers
    >>>
    >>> may elect to file Form N-15 without claiming any standard deduction
    >>>
    >>> or personal exemption amounts. Itemized deductions calculated using the
    >>>
    >>> ratio of Hawaii adjusted gross income to Total adjusted gross income may
    >>> not
    >>>
    >>> be claimed. Also, tax credits which are based on total adjusted gross
    >>> income
    >>>
    >>> from all sources may not be claimed. To make this election, enter zero on
    >>> line
    >>>
    >>> 36, Ratio of Hawaii AGI to Total AGI.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Does this mean I can consider my California Source Income as "worldwide
    >>> source income" and substantially ease the paperwork burden with respect
    >>> to
    >>> Hawaii?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Also, it says you need to file a copy of your Federal return. Is this
    >>> true
    >>> if you make the above election? Yes or no, do you need to file a copy of
    >>> ALL of the federal return, or just the 1040 itself?
    >>>

    >> Each year I prepare a nonresident Hawaii return for a friend who has
    >> rental property in Hawaii. Hawaii does not use the generally accepted
    >> method used by other states to calculate state tax. Most of the other
    >> states calculate the tax on worldwide income and apply a ratio of state
    >> sourced income to federal income to arrive at the tax. Hawaii calculates
    >> the tax by using your Hawaii sourced AGI and allows you to take deductions
    >> and exemptions by applying the AGI ratio to those items before arriving at
    >> the taxable state income. Because of this method, Hawaii can give you the
    >> option of foregoing any deductions, personal exemptions and credits by
    >> using your Hawaii AGI as your Hawaii taxable income. This election also
    >> allows you to avoid having to complete Column A, your worldwide source
    >> income. However, you are required to attach all forms and schedules of
    >> your federal tax return to the N-15 whether you make the election or not.
    >>
    >> Just to make sure we are not talking past each other.... Column A of the
    >> N-15 wants your worldwide income as if you were a Hawaii resident. This is
    >> your federal income adjusted to Hawaii law. It's the same method that CA
    >> uses for nonresidents. E.g., neither CA or HI would want you to include
    >> taxable social security benefits in your worldwide income as neither state
    >> taxes those benefits. The only difference between CA and HI is that CA
    >> asks for your federal numbers and then gives you two columns to add and
    >> subtract from that to conform to CA law. HI only gives you one column to
    >> enter the income and adjustments based on HI law.
    >>
    >> If you are a CA resident and CA is taxing your HI income and you also pay
    >> tax to HI on that same income, CA will give you a credit for the HI taxes.
    >> See CA Schedule S.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Alan
    >> http://taxtopics.net

    >
    > Thank you. I don't know why, but taxpayer hates the thought of giving a
    > state a copy of my federal return if it is not to be used to calculate that
    > state's taxes. I tend to agree, again, without a specific reason.


    You can choose not to attach your federal return and maybe you will not
    get a letter asking for it. I have no experience in this matter with HI.

    >
    > Another question: I am assuming that there would be a NOL from this rental
    > activity, given depreciation, maintenance and repairs, etc. Does Hawaii
    > allow NOL carryforwards (indefinitely?) for future use against positive
    > income for a year, or a capital gain when the property is sold?
    >

    See the N-15 instruction on page 7 for Line 19 Other Income. It explains
    the carry back and carry forward rules for NOLs.
    http://www6.hawaii.gov/tax/2011/n15ins.pdf

    --
    Alan
    http://taxtopics.net

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Alan, Jul 10, 2012
    #4
  5. Pico Rico

    Pico Rico Guest

    "Alan" <> wrote in message
    news:jti1il$193$...
    > On 7/10/12 1:04 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >> "Alan" <> wrote in message
    >> news:jthirv$4tq$...
    >>> On 7/9/12 9:10 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >>>> If one owns a vacation rental condo in Hawaii (and that is all), a
    >>>> Hawaii
    >>>> state income tax return is required, regardless of whether there is any
    >>>> taxable income or not.
    >>>>

    [snip]

    >>
    >> Another question: I am assuming that there would be a NOL from this
    >> rental
    >> activity, given depreciation, maintenance and repairs, etc. Does Hawaii
    >> allow NOL carryforwards (indefinitely?) for future use against positive
    >> income for a year, or a capital gain when the property is sold?
    >>

    > See the N-15 instruction on page 7 for Line 19 Other Income. It explains
    > the carry back and carry forward rules for NOLs.
    > http://www6.hawaii.gov/tax/2011/n15ins.pdf
    >
    > --
    > Alan
    > http://taxtopics.net



    Thank you, Alan. One more question: can the NOL due to the Hawaii condo be
    used on the Calif resident's California Income Tax return?

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Pico Rico, Jul 10, 2012
    #5
  6. Pico Rico

    Alan Guest

    On 7/10/12 4:59 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    [SNIP]
    >
    > Thank you, Alan. One more question: can the NOL due to the Hawaii condo be
    > used on the Calif resident's California Income Tax return?
    >


    As a resident of CA, you include your out of state rental income/loss on
    your CA return because it flows from your federal return. You then make
    adjustments, if required, because CA and federal law differ on
    depreciation schedules (Schedule CA(540)). Then you complete CA Form FTB
    3801 and its worksheets to see how much of any passive loss may be
    allowed on your CA return. Completing FTB 3801 is not for the faint at
    heart.
    --
    Alan
    http://taxtopics.net

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Alan, Jul 11, 2012
    #6
  7. Pico Rico

    Pico Rico Guest

    "Alan" <> wrote in message
    news:jtieaj$hih$...
    > On 7/10/12 4:59 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    > [SNIP]
    >>
    >> Thank you, Alan. One more question: can the NOL due to the Hawaii condo
    >> be
    >> used on the Calif resident's California Income Tax return?
    >>

    >
    > As a resident of CA, you include your out of state rental income/loss on
    > your CA return because it flows from your federal return. You then make
    > adjustments, if required, because CA and federal law differ on
    > depreciation schedules (Schedule CA(540)). Then you complete CA Form FTB
    > 3801 and its worksheets to see how much of any passive loss may be allowed
    > on your CA return. Completing FTB 3801 is not for the faint at heart.
    > --



    assuming taxpayer has plenty of other passive gains, then you just skip the
    FTB 3801 because all the losses will be more than offset by the gains,
    right?

    But does Calif want you to exclude the out of state loss because it is out
    of state, or can it be used?

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Pico Rico, Jul 11, 2012
    #7
  8. Pico Rico

    Alan Guest

    On 7/10/12 7:36 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    > "Alan" <> wrote in message
    > news:jtieaj$hih$...
    >> On 7/10/12 4:59 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >> [SNIP]
    >>>
    >>> Thank you, Alan. One more question: can the NOL due to the Hawaii condo
    >>> be
    >>> used on the Calif resident's California Income Tax return?
    >>>

    >>
    >> As a resident of CA, you include your out of state rental income/loss on
    >> your CA return because it flows from your federal return. You then make
    >> adjustments, if required, because CA and federal law differ on
    >> depreciation schedules (Schedule CA(540)). Then you complete CA Form FTB
    >> 3801 and its worksheets to see how much of any passive loss may be allowed
    >> on your CA return. Completing FTB 3801 is not for the faint at heart.
    >> --

    >
    >
    > assuming taxpayer has plenty of other passive gains, then you just skip the
    > FTB 3801 because all the losses will be more than offset by the gains,
    > right?


    Can you pass this test?

    Exception. You do not have to file form
    FTB 3801 if you meet both of the following
    conditions:
    • You have a net loss from rental real estate
    activities that is fully deductible under the
    special allowance for rental real estate.
    • You have no other passive activities.

    >
    > But does Calif want you to exclude the out of state loss because it is out
    > of state, or can it be used?
    >

    I haven't prepared a CA state return with out of state passive losses in
    a good number of years. However, I do monitor changes in CA tax law. I
    am not aware of anything in CA tax law that says a CA resident has to
    exclude the loss because it doesn't have its source in CA.

    --
    Alan
    http://taxtopics.net

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Alan, Jul 11, 2012
    #8
  9. Pico Rico

    Pico Rico Guest

    "Alan" <> wrote in message
    news:jtken7$mdq$...
    > On 7/10/12 7:36 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >> "Alan" <> wrote in message
    >> news:jtieaj$hih$...
    >>> On 7/10/12 4:59 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >>> [SNIP]
    >>>>
    >>>> Thank you, Alan. One more question: can the NOL due to the Hawaii
    >>>> condo
    >>>> be
    >>>> used on the Calif resident's California Income Tax return?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> As a resident of CA, you include your out of state rental income/loss on
    >>> your CA return because it flows from your federal return. You then make
    >>> adjustments, if required, because CA and federal law differ on
    >>> depreciation schedules (Schedule CA(540)). Then you complete CA Form FTB
    >>> 3801 and its worksheets to see how much of any passive loss may be
    >>> allowed
    >>> on your CA return. Completing FTB 3801 is not for the faint at heart.
    >>> --

    >>
    >>
    >> assuming taxpayer has plenty of other passive gains, then you just skip
    >> the
    >> FTB 3801 because all the losses will be more than offset by the gains,
    >> right?

    >
    > Can you pass this test?
    >
    > Exception. You do not have to file form
    > FTB 3801 if you meet both of the following
    > conditions:
    > • You have a net loss from rental real estate
    > activities that is fully deductible under the
    > special allowance for rental real estate.
    > • You have no other passive activities.
    >
    >>


    well, taxpayer has net passive income. Are you saying FTB 3801 must be
    filled out and filed even then?
    "If line 3 shows income, all of your losses are allowed, including any prior
    year unallowed losses entered on line 1c or line 2c. Transfer the income and
    losses to the form or schedule on which you normally report them. "



    >> But does Calif want you to exclude the out of state loss because it is
    >> out
    >> of state, or can it be used?
    >>

    > I haven't prepared a CA state return with out of state passive losses in a
    > good number of years. However, I do monitor changes in CA tax law. I am
    > not aware of anything in CA tax law that says a CA resident has to exclude
    > the loss because it doesn't have its source in CA.
    >



    thank you.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Pico Rico, Jul 11, 2012
    #9
  10. Pico Rico

    Alan Guest

    On 7/11/12 4:25 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >>
    >> Can you pass this test?
    >>
    >> Exception. You do not have to file form
    >> FTB 3801 if you meet both of the following
    >> conditions:
    >> • You have a net loss from rental real estate
    >> activities that is fully deductible under the
    >> special allowance for rental real estate.
    >> • You have no other passive activities.
    >>
    >>>

    >
    > well, taxpayer has net passive income. Are you saying FTB 3801 must be
    > filled out and filed even then?


    If you have losses from a passive activity you have to file the 3801
    unless you meet the exception I posted. The exception is for an entity
    that has a net loss from rental real estate that is fully deductible AND
    has no other type of passive activity (gain or loss).
    --
    Alan
    http://taxtopics.net

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Alan, Jul 12, 2012
    #10
  11. Pico Rico

    Pico Rico Guest

    "Alan" <> wrote in message
    news:jtl8vv$j9k$...
    > On 7/11/12 4:25 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Can you pass this test?
    >>>
    >>> Exception. You do not have to file form
    >>> FTB 3801 if you meet both of the following
    >>> conditions:
    >>> • You have a net loss from rental real estate
    >>> activities that is fully deductible under the
    >>> special allowance for rental real estate.
    >>> • You have no other passive activities.
    >>>
    >>>>

    >>
    >> well, taxpayer has net passive income. Are you saying FTB 3801 must be
    >> filled out and filed even then?

    >
    > If you have losses from a passive activity you have to file the 3801
    > unless you meet the exception I posted. The exception is for an entity
    > that has a net loss from rental real estate that is fully deductible AND
    > has no other type of passive activity (gain or loss).
    > --
    > Alan
    > http://taxtopics.net



    If you have a net gain from all your passive activities, is there ever a
    possibility that a loss from ONE passive activity would not be fully
    deductible?

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Pico Rico, Jul 12, 2012
    #11
  12. Pico Rico

    Alan Guest

    On 7/12/12 9:08 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
    > "Alan" <> wrote in message
    > news:jtl8vv$j9k$...
    >> On 7/11/12 4:25 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Can you pass this test?
    >>>>
    >>>> Exception. You do not have to file form
    >>>> FTB 3801 if you meet both of the following
    >>>> conditions:
    >>>> • You have a net loss from rental real estate
    >>>> activities that is fully deductible under the
    >>>> special allowance for rental real estate.
    >>>> • You have no other passive activities.
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>> well, taxpayer has net passive income. Are you saying FTB 3801 must be
    >>> filled out and filed even then?

    >>
    >> If you have losses from a passive activity you have to file the 3801
    >> unless you meet the exception I posted. The exception is for an entity
    >> that has a net loss from rental real estate that is fully deductible AND
    >> has no other type of passive activity (gain or loss).
    >> --
    >> Alan
    >> http://taxtopics.net

    >
    >
    > If you have a net gain from all your passive activities, is there ever a
    > possibility that a loss from ONE passive activity would not be fully
    > deductible?
    >

    The answers to all your questions have been posted or can be found in
    the CA instructions for the 3801 under who must file.

    --
    Alan
    http://taxtopics.net

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    Alan, Jul 12, 2012
    #12
  13. "Pico Rico" <> wrote in message
    news:jtfpna$cr7$...

    > Also, it says you need to file a copy of your Federal return. Is this
    > true if you make the above election? Yes or no, do you need to file a
    > copy of ALL of the federal return, or just the 1040 itself?


    Probably just the 1040. However, you should eFile and the tax program will
    take care of whatever is necessary behind the scenes.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
     
    removeps-groups, Jul 13, 2012
    #13
  14. Pico Rico

    KristianB

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Dear Alan

    Please could you get in touch? I am a non resident alien and bought a condo in Hawaii last year. I am looking for an account to file my 2012 state and federal tax returns.

    Best regards

    Kristian
     
    KristianB, Apr 10, 2013
    #14
  15. Pico Rico

    caldonna49

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Does Hawaii recognize passive loss carryovers on rental property?

    Does Hawaii recognize passive loss carryovers on rental property?
     
    caldonna49, Apr 2, 2014
    #15
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