Long DWP Investigation

Discussion in 'UK Tax Credits and Benefits' started by Patience, Jan 6, 2007.

  1. Patience

    Patience Guest

    The DWP interviewed me under caution in late August about a failure
    to admit a change in my circumstances. I have heard nothing since.
    Both at the interview and when I phoned Counterfraud in November the
    officer concerned assured me that if they decided not to prosecute
    they would notify me.
    In the November phone call I made he recalled my case and said I was
    still being investigated. I am reluctant to ring again following the
    old adage "Let sleeping dogs lie", but are the DWP obliged to tell
    someone their enquiries are at an end? Surely they can shelve the case
    and not bother notifying the suspect? That is, someone may no longer
    be under investigation, but may be assuming they are?

    Patience
     
    Patience, Jan 6, 2007
    #1
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  2. Patience

    Mike Guest

    Patience wrote:
    > The DWP interviewed me under caution in late August about a failure
    > to admit a change in my circumstances. I have heard nothing since.
    > Both at the interview and when I phoned Counterfraud in November the
    > officer concerned assured me that if they decided not to prosecute
    > they would notify me.
    > In the November phone call I made he recalled my case and said I was
    > still being investigated. I am reluctant to ring again following the
    > old adage "Let sleeping dogs lie", but are the DWP obliged to tell
    > someone their enquiries are at an end? Surely they can shelve the case
    > and not bother notifying the suspect? That is, someone may no longer
    > be under investigation, but may be assuming they are?
    >
    > Patience


    In all probability they are not prosecuting, it has been referred for
    re-assessment and overpayment action and this is taking a while. It may
    be difficulties getting the information to re-assess your benefit (e.g
    from an employer or bank) or even there's a backlog of work at the
    office. They will notify you if a decision maker decides to change your
    benefit.

    Unless of course you were less than candid at the interview in which
    case investigations by the fraud sect.could be ongoing.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Jan 6, 2007
    #2
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  3. Patience

    Ste Guest

    Patience wrote:
    > The DWP interviewed me under caution in late August about a failure
    > to admit a change in my circumstances. I have heard nothing since.
    > Both at the interview and when I phoned Counterfraud in November the
    > officer concerned assured me that if they decided not to prosecute
    > they would notify me.
    > In the November phone call I made he recalled my case and said I was
    > still being investigated. I am reluctant to ring again following the
    > old adage "Let sleeping dogs lie", but are the DWP obliged to tell
    > someone their enquiries are at an end? Surely they can shelve the case
    > and not bother notifying the suspect? That is, someone may no longer
    > be under investigation, but may be assuming they are?
    >
    > Patience


    What you'll find is that the wheels of justice - at least when the DWP
    is geared in - turn very slowly. Try getting a simple ajudication and
    you're lucky if you get it by April.

    That said, if your "change of circumstances" materially affected your
    claim, you've committed a criminal offence. There are no sleeping dogs
    here I'm afraid. If there is any money owing, you'll be asked to repay
    the money. You may also be asked to pay a penalty on top of that,
    particularly if you've been uncooperative - I believe it's 30% of the
    amount owing.

    If you refuse to pay the money back, or if you've committed a very
    malicious fraud, you'll be prosecuted in due course. Your sentence will
    obviously reflect the circumstances, but you should avoid court if you
    can.
     
    Ste, Jan 7, 2007
    #3
  4. Patience

    Mike Guest

    Ste wrote:

    > If you refuse to pay the money back, or if you've committed a very
    > malicious fraud, you'll be prosecuted in due course. Your sentence will
    > obviously reflect the circumstances, but you should avoid court if you
    > can.



    The only things that influence whether a fraud is prosecuted is prospect
    of success and possible adverse publicity (public interest). The DWP
    rarely loses in court because they only prosecute when they are
    confident of success but just because they don't prosecute doesn't mean
    the OP can't be recovered.

    Refusing to pay back an OP won't make any difference, if you are on
    benefits they will make deductions whether the cust. likes it or not.
    If not the DWP will take court action including bailiffs which of course
    the customer pays for.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Jan 7, 2007
    #4
  5. Patience

    Patience Guest

    On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 15:54:28 GMT, Mike
    <> wrote:

    >Ste wrote:
    >
    >> If you refuse to pay the money back, or if you've committed a very
    >> malicious fraud, you'll be prosecuted in due course. Your sentence will
    >> obviously reflect the circumstances, but you should avoid court if you
    >> can.

    >
    >
    >The only things that influence whether a fraud is prosecuted is prospect
    >of success and possible adverse publicity (public interest). The DWP
    >rarely loses in court because they only prosecute when they are
    >confident of success but just because they don't prosecute doesn't mean
    >the OP can't be recovered.
    >
    >Refusing to pay back an OP won't make any difference, if you are on
    >benefits they will make deductions whether the cust. likes it or not.
    >If not the DWP will take court action including bailiffs which of course
    >the customer pays for.
    >
    >Mike



    Thanks Guys

    Since they cut off my benefits I am back at work, so no question of
    deductions from benefits
    The Overpay Dept wrote to me and I, repaying weekly.
    No penalty has been discussed yet, presumably because they can't make
    up their mind over Court action?
    You mention I "should avoid Court action if I can", is there anything
    I can do to influence this decision? Clearly if I am summonsed and
    convicted my employment chances wil be near zero - I am only on a
    short term temp work

    Patience
     
    Patience, Jan 8, 2007
    #5
  6. Patience

    Ste Guest

    > Thanks Guys
    >
    > Since they cut off my benefits I am back at work, so no question of
    > deductions from benefits


    Your wages can also be garnished if necessary.


    > The Overpay Dept wrote to me and I, repaying weekly.
    > No penalty has been discussed yet, presumably because they can't make
    > up their mind over Court action?


    If they've told you the amount owed, and you're paying it back, I'd
    imagine they've already taken as much action as they intend to.


    > You mention I "should avoid Court action if I can", is there anything
    > I can do to influence this decision?


    At this stage, probably not. But if it was a fair cop, then people are
    well advised to cooperate with their investigation from the beginning.


    > Clearly if I am summonsed and
    > convicted my employment chances wil be near zero - I am only on a
    > short term temp work


    At least you will have a genuine reason to tell the Jobcentre for why
    you haven't got work! And you could always neglect to disclose your
    convictions to employers, and there is basically no way they will ever
    find out, unless a CRB check is carried out in the case of certain
    types of employment.
     
    Ste, Jan 9, 2007
    #6
  7. Patience

    Mike Guest

    Ste wrote:

    >
    >> The Overpay Dept wrote to me and I, repaying weekly.
    >> No penalty has been discussed yet, presumably because they can't make
    >> up their mind over Court action?

    >
    > If they've told you the amount owed, and you're paying it back, I'd
    > imagine they've already taken as much action as they intend to.
    >


    This is probably right, you could contact them, it is unlikely to
    prompt action that they had forgotten about but you never know.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Jan 9, 2007
    #7
  8. Patience

    Patience Guest

    On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:31:33 GMT, Mike
    <> wrote:

    >Ste wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>> The Overpay Dept wrote to me and I, repaying weekly.
    >>> No penalty has been discussed yet, presumably because they can't make
    >>> up their mind over Court action?

    >>
    >> If they've told you the amount owed, and you're paying it back, I'd
    >> imagine they've already taken as much action as they intend to.
    >>

    >
    >This is probably right, you could contact them, it is unlikely to
    >prompt action that they had forgotten about but you never know.
    >
    >Mike


    Rang them today, enquiries still in progress. Asked for a copy of the
    taped interview and they were vague about how long a copy would take.
    Am asking also for a copy of my original claim form from 1999. This
    they did not have at the August interview

    Patience
     
    Patience, Jan 15, 2007
    #8
  9. Patience

    Patience Guest

    On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:31:33 GMT, Mike
    <> wrote:

    >Ste wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>> The Overpay Dept wrote to me and I, repaying weekly.
    >>> No penalty has been discussed yet, presumably because they can't make
    >>> up their mind over Court action?

    >>
    >> If they've told you the amount owed, and you're paying it back, I'd
    >> imagine they've already taken as much action as they intend to.
    >>

    >
    >This is probably right, you could contact them, it is unlikely to
    >prompt action that they had forgotten about but you never know.
    >
    >Mike


    Thanks Everyone
    I rang them today asking for a copy of my first taped interview in
    August. They don't even know how long a copy of the tape will take. If
    they cannot find a copy of the claim form I completed in 1999, and I
    suspect they cannot.........they did not produce it in August, then
    how long will it take them to give up?
    I cannot deny recieving benefits, but they have a hell of a job saying
    my circs have changed if that form has been "mislaid"

    Patience
     
    Patience, Jan 15, 2007
    #9
  10. Patience

    Mike Guest

    Patience wrote:
    > On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:31:33 GMT, Mike
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Ste wrote:
    >>
    >>>> The Overpay Dept wrote to me and I, repaying weekly.
    >>>> No penalty has been discussed yet, presumably because they can't make
    >>>> up their mind over Court action?
    >>> If they've told you the amount owed, and you're paying it back, I'd
    >>> imagine they've already taken as much action as they intend to.
    >>>

    >> This is probably right, you could contact them, it is unlikely to
    >> prompt action that they had forgotten about but you never know.
    >>
    >> Mike

    >
    > Thanks Everyone
    > I rang them today asking for a copy of my first taped interview in
    > August. They don't even know how long a copy of the tape will take. If
    > they cannot find a copy of the claim form I completed in 1999, and I
    > suspect they cannot.........they did not produce it in August, then
    > how long will it take them to give up?
    > I cannot deny recieving benefits, but they have a hell of a job saying
    > my circs have changed if that form has been "mislaid"
    >
    > Patience


    Depends, if the circs changed after you claimed (so would not have been
    on the form) and they can prove or you've admitted that, the claim form
    is irrelevant. If you're saying the circumstances that prompted the
    action existed and were declared on the claim form (but missed by the
    DWP), then they will need it to prosecute!

    Of course between 1999 and now you will have had several reviews,
    postaly or otherwise for your benefit and those forms will be just as
    important. Do you receive HB/CTB as well and is that affected?

    Mike
     
    Mike, Jan 15, 2007
    #10
  11. Patience

    Patience Guest

    On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:52:35 GMT, Mike
    <> wrote:

    >Patience wrote:
    >> On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:31:33 GMT, Mike
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ste wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> The Overpay Dept wrote to me and I, repaying weekly.
    >>>>> No penalty has been discussed yet, presumably because they can't make
    >>>>> up their mind over Court action?
    >>>> If they've told you the amount owed, and you're paying it back, I'd
    >>>> imagine they've already taken as much action as they intend to.
    >>>>
    >>> This is probably right, you could contact them, it is unlikely to
    >>> prompt action that they had forgotten about but you never know.
    >>>
    >>> Mike

    >>
    >> Thanks Everyone
    >> I rang them today asking for a copy of my first taped interview in
    >> August. They don't even know how long a copy of the tape will take. If
    >> they cannot find a copy of the claim form I completed in 1999, and I
    >> suspect they cannot.........they did not produce it in August, then
    >> how long will it take them to give up?
    >> I cannot deny recieving benefits, but they have a hell of a job saying
    >> my circs have changed if that form has been "mislaid"
    >>
    >> Patience

    >
    >Depends, if the circs changed after you claimed (so would not have been
    >on the form) and they can prove or you've admitted that, the claim form
    >is irrelevant. If you're saying the circumstances that prompted the
    >action existed and were declared on the claim form (but missed by the
    >DWP), then they will need it to prosecute!
    >
    >Of course between 1999 and now you will have had several reviews,
    >postaly or otherwise for your benefit and those forms will be just as
    >important. Do you receive HB/CTB as well and is that affected?
    >
    >Mike


    Thanks Mike, sorry to have been a while. I have always been puzzled in
    that I am sure I only completed one form in 1999, I do not recall any
    reviews, though the local council (who are now keeping very much in
    the background) did review me.
    I am applying for the 1999 form to find if they really have one.
    BTW a solicitor who I saw prior to my interview under caution says let
    sleeping dogs lie and that they may have me as a low priority. Still
    I would rather get it over with now than have a surprise summons
    months later
    Patience
     
    Patience, Jan 27, 2007
    #11
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