Money market fund shows a loss

Discussion in 'Quicken' started by David Arnstein, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. Using Quicken 2012 with a LONG history.

    I have a money market fund that is showing a loss. I have and do hold
    this fund in multiple accounts, but I think I can isolate the problem
    to a single account. If I pull up the Account Overview for that account,
    I see all of the capital loss for the money market fund there.

    I have examined every transaction for that fund, in the problematic
    account. The only transaction Actions I can find are
    BoughtX
    SoldX
    DivX
    ReinvDiv

    The BoughtX, SoldX, and ReinvDiv Actions all show a quote of exactly
    $1.00. The DivX Actions do not show a quote, which seems to be the way
    Quicken works. Logical.

    I totalled the amounts in all the DivX transactions and it does not seem
    to be related to the amount of the loss that Quicken reports. The two
    numbers are not equal. One number is not an integer multiple of the
    other.

    I am concerned about this because I cannot now trust any of the gain/loss
    numbers reported by Quicken. I would like to understand this particular
    problem so that I can make sense of the gain/loss numbers reported by
    Quicken for my other investments.

    Thanks for any suggestions.
    --
    David Arnstein (00)
    {{ }}
    ^^
     
    David Arnstein, Dec 21, 2011
    #1
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  2. David Arnstein

    John Pollard Guest

    "David Arnstein"

    Using Quicken 2012 with a LONG history.

    I have a money market fund that is showing a loss.

    ....

    I have examined every transaction for that fund, in the problematic
    account.

    ....

    -----------------------------------------------

    I'm not sure the problem need be with a transaction.

    Have you checked the Quicken price history for the fund?

    Investing > Investing Tools > Security Detail View

    Select the security. Then Update > Edit Price History.

    Look for non-one dollar prices.

    If that doesn't turn up anything, you can try recalculating the register.

    In the Transaction List of the account where you believe the problem lies,
    hold down CTRL while clicking the letter z. When it works, you should see a
    message saying "Recalculate all transactions?" with OK and Cancel buttons.
     
    John Pollard, Dec 21, 2011
    #2
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  3. In article <jctefv$8tm$>,
    John Pollard <> wrote:
    >Have you checked the Quicken price history for the fund?


    I just did. Every entry is $1.00.

    >If that doesn't turn up anything, you can try recalculating the register.
    >
    >In the Transaction List of the account where you believe the problem lies,
    >hold down CTRL while clicking the letter z. When it works, you should see a
    >message saying "Recalculate all transactions?" with OK and Cancel buttons.


    I was able to do this for the brokerage register. I was unable to
    bring up this message for the linked cash register, perhaps that does
    not matter.

    Anyway, my "loss" problem is still in effect. Any other suggestions.

    In any case, Thank you John. I learned something from your post.
    --
    David Arnstein (00)
    {{ }}
    ^^
     
    David Arnstein, Dec 22, 2011
    #3
  4. David Arnstein

    ps56k Guest

    I was wondering if this MMF was in the Savings side or the Investment side ?
    having some bank MMF setup in the Savings side,
    along with the various Investment MMF direct funds from Fidelity, Schwab,
    Vanguard, etc.

    I can only really see details on the Investment side.....
    and mine of course show ->
    Shares = Market Value = Cost Basis

    The share price could have been wacked at some point
    and was not equal to $1.00 when some minor add/subtract took place.
    I do recall seeing that happen recently.

    I have also seen where the downloaded file doesn't properly account
    for the transaction - and shares are added or subtracted - but nothing else.
     
    ps56k, Dec 22, 2011
    #4
  5. David Arnstein

    Zaidy036 Guest

    On 12/21/2011 12:10 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
    > BoughtX
    > SoldX
    > DivX
    > ReinvDiv


    Should ReinvDiv be ReinvDivX or DivX be Div ?

    --
    Zaidy036
     
    Zaidy036, Dec 22, 2011
    #5
  6. In article <jcvhv9$m6f$>, Zaidy036 <> wrote:
    >On 12/21/2011 12:10 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
    >> BoughtX
    >> SoldX
    >> DivX
    >> ReinvDiv

    >
    >Should ReinvDiv be ReinvDivX or DivX be Div ?


    Hello Zaidy,

    Those actions are exactly what I see. Perhaps the reason is that my
    investment account in Quicken is linked to a cash account. This
    linkage was set up in Quicken automatically, many years ago. That is
    the way Quicken used to work. I believe that the "X" stands for
    "transfer" (to/from linked cash account).
    --
    David Arnstein (00)
    {{ }}
    ^^
     
    David Arnstein, Dec 22, 2011
    #6
  7. David Arnstein

    Jerry Boyle Guest

    "David Arnstein" <> wrote in message
    news:jct3ts$hdo$...
    > Using Quicken 2012 with a LONG history.
    >
    > I have a money market fund that is showing a loss. I have and do hold
    > this fund in multiple accounts, but I think I can isolate the problem
    > to a single account. If I pull up the Account Overview for that account,
    > I see all of the capital loss for the money market fund there.
    >
    > I have examined every transaction for that fund, in the problematic
    > account. The only transaction Actions I can find are
    > BoughtX
    > SoldX
    > DivX
    > ReinvDiv
    >
    > The BoughtX, SoldX, and ReinvDiv Actions all show a quote of exactly
    > $1.00. The DivX Actions do not show a quote, which seems to be the way
    > Quicken works. Logical.
    >
    > I totalled the amounts in all the DivX transactions and it does not seem
    > to be related to the amount of the loss that Quicken reports. The two
    > numbers are not equal. One number is not an integer multiple of the
    > other.
    >
    > I am concerned about this because I cannot now trust any of the gain/loss
    > numbers reported by Quicken. I would like to understand this particular
    > problem so that I can make sense of the gain/loss numbers reported by
    > Quicken for my other investments.
    >
    > Thanks for any suggestions.


    Does the loss show in Portfolio view?

    If so, you can set "Group by:" to Accounts, "Show" to any view (e.g. Tax
    Implications) that shows Gain/Loss, and then step thru dates ("As of:")
    until you find the earliest time at which the problem occurs. If you like,
    you can customize the view to eliminate accounts and securities that aren't
    relevant to your problem.

    You can also click the "+" next to a security name to see the individual lot
    statuses as of that date.

    The above may expose the location of an unprintable garbage character in a
    transaction or a price history entry. Sometimes garbage characters in data
    can cause unpredictable calculation errors [and maybe even *re*calculation
    errors!].

    I also vaguely remember a case many years ago where correcting the cost of a
    purchase left me with correct cost bases for (the remaining portion of)
    individual lots but with an incorrect total. I had to delete and reenter
    both the purchase and all subsequent sales to fix the problem. I can't
    recall whether or not I first tried recalculating the register.
     
    Jerry Boyle, Dec 22, 2011
    #7
  8. David Arnstein

    Zaidy036 Guest

    On 12/22/2011 10:38 AM, David Arnstein wrote:
    > In article<jcvhv9$m6f$>, Zaidy036<> wrote:
    >> On 12/21/2011 12:10 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
    >>> BoughtX
    >>> SoldX
    >>> DivX
    >>> ReinvDiv

    >>
    >> Should ReinvDiv be ReinvDivX or DivX be Div ?

    >
    > Hello Zaidy,
    >
    > Those actions are exactly what I see. Perhaps the reason is that my
    > investment account in Quicken is linked to a cash account. This
    > linkage was set up in Quicken automatically, many years ago. That is
    > the way Quicken used to work. I believe that the "X" stands for
    > "transfer" (to/from linked cash account).


    Since you have a linked cash account then ReinvDiv should not be there.
    DivX and BoughtX combination take care of that function.

    I think that your ReinvDiv are duplications and your share totals are
    now wrong. For the dates of your ReinvDiv compare to DivX and BoughtX
    transactions.

    Have you checked your share totals against 1099s or the funds web site info?
    --
    Zaidy036
     
    Zaidy036, Dec 22, 2011
    #8
  9. In article <jcviv0$rj3$>,
    Jerry Boyle <> wrote:
    >Does the loss show in Portfolio view?
    >
    >If so, you can set "Group by:" to Accounts, "Show" to any view (e.g. Tax
    >Implications) that shows Gain/Loss, and then step thru dates ("As of:")
    >until you find the earliest time at which the problem occurs. If you like,
    >you can customize the view to eliminate accounts and securities that aren't
    >relevant to your problem.


    Excellent suggestion Jerry. Using your method, I was able to isolate a
    single SoldX transaction for the money market fund. It caused the problem,
    somehow.

    I tried choosing new Lots for the transaction. That did not fix the
    problem. Why should it? Every single lot had a share price of $1.

    Then I simply deleted the transaction and typed it in again. Problem
    solved.

    I have a much bigger problem now. I cannot trust any of Quicken's
    gain/loss numbers. From now on, I will just use Quicken as a register
    for recording transactions. The reports are useless.
    --
    David Arnstein (00)
    {{ }}
    ^^
     
    David Arnstein, Dec 22, 2011
    #9
  10. "David Arnstein" <> wrote in message
    news:jcvp8o$ar0$...
    > In article <jcviv0$rj3$>,
    > Jerry Boyle <> wrote:
    >>Does the loss show in Portfolio view?
    >>
    >>If so, you can set "Group by:" to Accounts, "Show" to any view (e.g. Tax
    >>Implications) that shows Gain/Loss, and then step thru dates ("As of:")
    >>until you find the earliest time at which the problem occurs. If you like,
    >>you can customize the view to eliminate accounts and securities that
    >>aren't
    >>relevant to your problem.

    >
    > Excellent suggestion Jerry. Using your method, I was able to isolate a
    > single SoldX transaction for the money market fund. It caused the problem,
    > somehow.
    >
    > I tried choosing new Lots for the transaction. That did not fix the
    > problem. Why should it? Every single lot had a share price of $1.
    >
    > Then I simply deleted the transaction and typed it in again. Problem
    > solved.
    >
    > I have a much bigger problem now. I cannot trust any of Quicken's
    > gain/loss numbers. From now on, I will just use Quicken as a register
    > for recording transactions. The reports are useless.
    > --
    > David Arnstein (00)
    > {{ }}
    > ^^


    I change "almost" all of my DivX and IntIncX transactions in my linked cash
    accounts. That way I can assign an appropriate category (e.g., federal tax
    exempt, state tax exempt, totally exempt, etc.). One exception is where DivX
    is paid and then additional shares are purchased; some securities at my
    brokerage (e.g., MSFT) do it that way instead of a simple ReinvDiv,
    especially when the reinvested amount is a little less than the dividend.

    Also, I do use the capital gains report every year. In many cases, my
    brokerage does not know the cost basis (Forms 8949 this year will be lots of
    fun). I own several municipal bonds, some bought at a premium, and one
    cannot use the actual purchase price, but must amortize the premium because
    you cannot get a double tax benefit. One feature of the capital gains report
    I haven't figured out how to "fix" is that when I transfer securities from
    one account to another (I.e., change brokerages) all the transferred
    securities appear in the report with zero gain or loss.
    --

    ...............................................................................................................................................
    "I don't remember any of that. I've been defragging my hard drive and got
    rid of all those lost clusters."
     
    Green Eggs & NoSpam, Jan 2, 2012
    #10
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