Re: Tax Credits

Discussion in 'UK Tax Credits and Benefits' started by Nomen Nescio, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. Nomen Nescio

    Nomen Nescio Guest

    On Dec 18, 11:48 pm, Robbie <> wrote:
    > On 18/12/2010 13:25, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    > Ask away! I may be able to answer your query.


    So, what it is. I was on JSA then I found a job. I claimed tax credits
    and I started receiving them . Them I received a form from TCO that I
    should have returned back if the details were correct. Becasue I
    wasn't sure if they were correct I send the TCO in Preston a letter
    telling them the details were wrong but they didn't reply. Then my
    circumstances changed and I called the tax credit helpline and
    communicating my changes.

    But since then I have kept on receiving letters from the TCO asking me
    to repay the tac credits back. It sound like they have ignored my
    letter and my phone calls. If I call the helpline they say I have
    noting to worry about but these letters keep on coming. The right hand
    doesn't know what the left hand does. It is a burearocratic hell.
     
    Nomen Nescio, Dec 20, 2010
    #1
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  2. Nomen Nescio

    Robbie Guest

    Nomen Nescio wrote:
    > On Dec 18, 11:48 pm, Robbie <> wrote:
    >> On 18/12/2010 13:25, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >> Ask away! I may be able to answer your query.

    >
    > So, what it is. I was on JSA then I found a job. I claimed tax credits
    > and I started receiving them . Them I received a form from TCO that I
    > should have returned back if the details were correct. Becasue I
    > wasn't sure if they were correct I send the TCO in Preston a letter
    > telling them the details were wrong but they didn't reply. Then my
    > circumstances changed and I called the tax credit helpline and
    > communicating my changes.
    >
    > But since then I have kept on receiving letters from the TCO asking me
    > to repay the tac credits back. It sound like they have ignored my
    > letter and my phone calls. If I call the helpline they say I have
    > noting to worry about but these letters keep on coming. The right hand
    > doesn't know what the left hand does. It is a burearocratic hell.
    >


    Unfortunately when it comes to (potential) overpayments for tax credits
    I'm not clued up on them as the HMRC seem like a law unto themselves.

    Unless anyone else here can answer the query I can only suggest you post
    your query at moneysavingexpert.com where they have, amongst other
    forums, a Benefits & Tax Credits forum:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139

    There's a number of posters who have experience of the tax credits
    system including overpayments problems who should be able to help.

    I can't think of any other newsgroup on usenet which could answer your
    query.

    --
    Robbie
     
    Robbie, Dec 20, 2010
    #2
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  3. Nomen Nescio

    Niteawk Guest

    "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >> On Dec 18, 11:48 pm, Robbie <> wrote:
    >>> On 18/12/2010 13:25, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >>> Ask away! I may be able to answer your query.

    >>
    >> So, what it is. I was on JSA then I found a job. I claimed tax credits
    >> and I started receiving them . Them I received a form from TCO that I
    >> should have returned back if the details were correct. Becasue I wasn't
    >> sure if they were correct I send the TCO in Preston a letter telling them
    >> the details were wrong but they didn't reply. Then my circumstances
    >> changed and I called the tax credit helpline and communicating my
    >> changes.
    >>
    >> But since then I have kept on receiving letters from the TCO asking me to
    >> repay the tac credits back. It sound like they have ignored my letter and
    >> my phone calls. If I call the helpline they say I have noting to worry
    >> about but these letters keep on coming. The right hand doesn't know what
    >> the left hand does. It is a burearocratic hell.
    >>

    >
    > Unfortunately when it comes to (potential) overpayments for tax credits
    > I'm not clued up on them as the HMRC seem like a law unto themselves.
    >
    > Unless anyone else here can answer the query I can only suggest you post
    > your query at moneysavingexpert.com where they have, amongst other forums,
    > a Benefits & Tax Credits forum:
    >
    > http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139
    >
    > There's a number of posters who have experience of the tax credits system
    > including overpayments problems who should be able to help.
    >
    > I can't think of any other newsgroup on usenet which could answer your
    > query.
    >


    I might be wrong but I can't see it being that difficult to understand,
    basic maths really. All Nomen has to do is work out how much TC's he is or
    was entitled to, any payments over and above that amount must be paid back,
    in instalments I suppose.
     
    Niteawk, Dec 20, 2010
    #3
  4. Nomen Nescio

    Robbie Guest

    On 20/12/2010 23:47, Niteawk wrote:
    >
    > "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >>> On Dec 18, 11:48 pm, Robbie <> wrote:
    >>>> On 18/12/2010 13:25, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >>>> Ask away! I may be able to answer your query.
    >>>
    >>> So, what it is. I was on JSA then I found a job. I claimed tax
    >>> credits and I started receiving them . Them I received a form from
    >>> TCO that I should have returned back if the details were correct.
    >>> Becasue I wasn't sure if they were correct I send the TCO in Preston
    >>> a letter telling them the details were wrong but they didn't reply.
    >>> Then my circumstances changed and I called the tax credit helpline
    >>> and communicating my changes.
    >>>
    >>> But since then I have kept on receiving letters from the TCO asking
    >>> me to repay the tac credits back. It sound like they have ignored my
    >>> letter and my phone calls. If I call the helpline they say I have
    >>> noting to worry about but these letters keep on coming. The right
    >>> hand doesn't know what the left hand does. It is a burearocratic hell.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Unfortunately when it comes to (potential) overpayments for tax
    >> credits I'm not clued up on them as the HMRC seem like a law unto
    >> themselves.
    >>
    >> Unless anyone else here can answer the query I can only suggest you
    >> post your query at moneysavingexpert.com where they have, amongst
    >> other forums, a Benefits & Tax Credits forum:
    >>
    >> http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139
    >>
    >> There's a number of posters who have experience of the tax credits
    >> system including overpayments problems who should be able to help.
    >>
    >> I can't think of any other newsgroup on usenet which could answer your
    >> query.
    >>

    >
    > I might be wrong but I can't see it being that difficult to understand,
    > basic maths really. All Nomen has to do is work out how much TC's he is
    > or was entitled to, any payments over and above that amount must be paid
    > back, in instalments I suppose.


    You've obviously never tried to do a tax credit assessment...

    --
    Robbie
     
    Robbie, Dec 21, 2010
    #4
  5. Nomen Nescio

    Niteawk Guest

    "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 20/12/2010 23:47, Niteawk wrote:
    >>
    >> "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >>>> On Dec 18, 11:48 pm, Robbie <> wrote:
    >>>>> On 18/12/2010 13:25, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >>>>> Ask away! I may be able to answer your query.
    >>>>
    >>>> So, what it is. I was on JSA then I found a job. I claimed tax
    >>>> credits and I started receiving them . Them I received a form from
    >>>> TCO that I should have returned back if the details were correct.
    >>>> Becasue I wasn't sure if they were correct I send the TCO in Preston
    >>>> a letter telling them the details were wrong but they didn't reply.
    >>>> Then my circumstances changed and I called the tax credit helpline
    >>>> and communicating my changes.
    >>>>
    >>>> But since then I have kept on receiving letters from the TCO asking
    >>>> me to repay the tac credits back. It sound like they have ignored my
    >>>> letter and my phone calls. If I call the helpline they say I have
    >>>> noting to worry about but these letters keep on coming. The right
    >>>> hand doesn't know what the left hand does. It is a burearocratic hell.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Unfortunately when it comes to (potential) overpayments for tax
    >>> credits I'm not clued up on them as the HMRC seem like a law unto
    >>> themselves.
    >>>
    >>> Unless anyone else here can answer the query I can only suggest you
    >>> post your query at moneysavingexpert.com where they have, amongst
    >>> other forums, a Benefits & Tax Credits forum:
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139
    >>>
    >>> There's a number of posters who have experience of the tax credits
    >>> system including overpayments problems who should be able to help.
    >>>
    >>> I can't think of any other newsgroup on usenet which could answer your
    >>> query.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I might be wrong but I can't see it being that difficult to understand,
    >> basic maths really. All Nomen has to do is work out how much TC's he is
    >> or was entitled to, any payments over and above that amount must be paid
    >> back, in instalments I suppose.

    >
    > You've obviously never tried to do a tax credit assessment...
    >


    Obviously, anyway if it is as complicated as you seem to be hinting it is,
    then I would argue that I am not responsible for something that is
    incomprehensible and clearly designed to mislead, not my problem, take it
    out my dole at 10p per month if you dare.
     
    Niteawk, Dec 21, 2010
    #5
  6. Nomen Nescio

    Robbie Guest

    Niteawk wrote:
    >
    > "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On 20/12/2010 23:47, Niteawk wrote:
    >>>
    >>> "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >>>>> On Dec 18, 11:48 pm, Robbie <> wrote:
    >>>>>> On 18/12/2010 13:25, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >>>>>> Ask away! I may be able to answer your query.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So, what it is. I was on JSA then I found a job. I claimed tax
    >>>>> credits and I started receiving them . Them I received a form from
    >>>>> TCO that I should have returned back if the details were correct.
    >>>>> Becasue I wasn't sure if they were correct I send the TCO in Preston
    >>>>> a letter telling them the details were wrong but they didn't reply.
    >>>>> Then my circumstances changed and I called the tax credit helpline
    >>>>> and communicating my changes.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But since then I have kept on receiving letters from the TCO asking
    >>>>> me to repay the tac credits back. It sound like they have ignored my
    >>>>> letter and my phone calls. If I call the helpline they say I have
    >>>>> noting to worry about but these letters keep on coming. The right
    >>>>> hand doesn't know what the left hand does. It is a burearocratic hell.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Unfortunately when it comes to (potential) overpayments for tax
    >>>> credits I'm not clued up on them as the HMRC seem like a law unto
    >>>> themselves.
    >>>>
    >>>> Unless anyone else here can answer the query I can only suggest you
    >>>> post your query at moneysavingexpert.com where they have, amongst
    >>>> other forums, a Benefits & Tax Credits forum:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139
    >>>>
    >>>> There's a number of posters who have experience of the tax credits
    >>>> system including overpayments problems who should be able to help.
    >>>>
    >>>> I can't think of any other newsgroup on usenet which could answer your
    >>>> query.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> I might be wrong but I can't see it being that difficult to understand,
    >>> basic maths really. All Nomen has to do is work out how much TC's he is
    >>> or was entitled to, any payments over and above that amount must be paid
    >>> back, in instalments I suppose.

    >>
    >> You've obviously never tried to do a tax credit assessment...
    >>

    >
    > Obviously, anyway if it is as complicated as you seem to be hinting it
    > is, then I would argue that I am not responsible for something that is
    > incomprehensible and clearly designed to mislead, not my problem, take
    > it out my dole at 10p per month if you dare.


    The problem with tax credits is that they are assessed on annual taxable
    income, initially on the taxable income received in the previous tax
    year then at the end of the current tax year the tax credits received
    are reconciled against taxable income earned during the tax year just
    ended. In theory they should be straightforward but in practice they are
    a nightmare. Also tax credits paid during a tax year are basically an
    "advance" of the tax credit you would receive at the end of the tax year
    once your earnings for the year have been, well, earned. If you have
    received the correct amount then all is fine. If you have received too
    little then there's a nice little bonus due. If you have received too
    much then it's possibly (but not always) cough the cash up time as you
    will have been overpaid. Except you may not know you are being overpaid
    at the time you got the tax credits as the actual assessment for tax
    credit amounts is overly complex. Plus if you do not provide the correct
    sort of information at the end of the tax year (and by July 31) to
    reconcile your income for the tax year just ended in April then HMRC can
    rule you have been overpaid ALL of your tax credits paid during the year
    even if you were due them at the time. This last part may be what has
    happened to Nomen, though I'm not 100% sure.

    Gordon Brown introduced tax credits to simplify the old Family Credit
    earnings top up scheme which based a top up on an average of your
    earnings for the last month or two... the last system was unfair (do
    overtime in that period and you lost out as FC payments were fixed for 6
    months, similarly many people would drop their hours during the period
    to get more FC) but at least it was easier to work out how much you
    would get per week.

    --
    Robbie
     
    Robbie, Dec 21, 2010
    #6
  7. Nomen Nescio

    Guest

    On Dec 21, 10:09 am, Robbie <> wrote:
    > Niteawk wrote:
    >
    > > "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> On 20/12/2010 23:47, Niteawk wrote:

    >
    > >>> "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    > >>>news:...
    > >>>> Nomen Nescio wrote:
    > >>>>> On Dec 18, 11:48 pm, Robbie <> wrote:
    > >>>>>> On 18/12/2010 13:25, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    > >>>>>> Ask away! I may be able to answer your query.

    >
    > >>>>> So, what it is. I was on JSA then I found a job. I claimed tax
    > >>>>> credits and I started receiving them . Them I received a form from
    > >>>>> TCO that I should have returned back if the details were correct.
    > >>>>> Becasue I wasn't sure if they were correct I send the TCO in Preston
    > >>>>> a letter telling them the details were wrong but they didn't reply.
    > >>>>> Then my circumstances changed and I called the tax credit helpline
    > >>>>> and communicating my changes.

    >
    > >>>>> But since then I have kept on receiving letters from the TCO asking
    > >>>>> me to repay the tac credits back. It sound like they have ignored my
    > >>>>> letter and my phone calls. If I call the helpline they say I have
    > >>>>> noting to worry about but these letters keep on coming. The right
    > >>>>> hand doesn't know what the left hand does. It is a burearocratic hell.

    >
    > >>>> Unfortunately when it comes to (potential) overpayments for tax
    > >>>> credits I'm not clued up on them as the HMRC seem like a law unto
    > >>>> themselves.

    >
    > >>>> Unless anyone else here can answer the query I can only suggest you
    > >>>> post your query at moneysavingexpert.com where they have, amongst
    > >>>> other forums, a Benefits & Tax Credits forum:

    >
    > >>>>http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139

    >
    > >>>> There's a number of posters who have experience of the tax credits
    > >>>> system including overpayments problems who should be able to help.

    >
    > >>>> I can't think of any other newsgroup on usenet which could answer your
    > >>>> query.

    >
    > >>> I might be wrong but I can't see it being that difficult to understand,
    > >>> basic maths really. All Nomen has to do is work out how much TC's he is
    > >>> or was entitled to, any payments over and above that amount must be paid
    > >>> back, in instalments I suppose.

    >
    > >> You've obviously never tried to do a tax credit assessment...

    >
    > > Obviously, anyway if it is as complicated as you seem to be hinting it
    > > is, then I would argue that I am not responsible for something that is
    > > incomprehensible and clearly designed to mislead, not my problem, take
    > > it out my dole at 10p per month if you dare.

    >
    > The problem with tax credits is that they are assessed on annual taxable
    > income, initially on the taxable income received in the previous tax
    > year then at the end of the current tax year the tax credits received
    > are reconciled against taxable income earned during the tax year just
    > ended. In theory they should be straightforward but in practice they are
    > a nightmare. Also tax credits paid during a tax year are basically an
    > "advance" of the tax credit you would receive at the end of the tax year
    > once your earnings for the year have been, well, earned. If you have
    > received the correct amount then all is fine. If you have received too
    > little then there's a nice little bonus due. If you have received too
    > much then it's possibly (but not always) cough the cash up time as you
    > will have been overpaid. Except you may not know you are being overpaid
    > at the time you got the tax credits as the actual assessment for tax
    > credit amounts is overly complex. Plus if you do not provide the correct
    > sort of information at the end of the tax year (and by July 31) to
    > reconcile your income for the tax year just ended in April then HMRC can
    > rule you have been overpaid ALL of your tax credits paid during the year
    > even if you were due them at the time. This last part may be what has
    > happened to Nomen, though I'm not 100% sure.
    >
    > Gordon Brown introduced tax credits to simplify the old Family Credit
    > earnings top up scheme which based a top up on an average of your
    > earnings for the last month or two... the last system was unfair (do
    > overtime in that period and you lost out as FC payments were fixed for 6
    > months, similarly many people would drop their hours during the period
    > to get more FC) but at least it was easier to work out how much you
    > would get per week.
    >
    > --
    > Robbie- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    And despite HMRC requiring self employed to have accounts done and
    submitted by 31st January, tax credit office require income details to
    be provided by 31st July - 6 months earlier!
    Luckily enough I do my own accounts so can prepare them in time.
    Tax credits seem to really, really hate estimated figures for the
    previous year. The one time I was waiting on information to finish the
    account the tax credit office was ringing me more than once a week to
    finalise the payments.

    Martin <><
     
    , Dec 21, 2010
    #7
  8. Nomen Nescio

    Niteawk Guest

    "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The problem with tax credits is that they are assessed on annual taxable
    > income, initially on the taxable income received in the previous tax year
    > then at the end of the current tax year the tax credits received are
    > reconciled against taxable income earned during the tax year just ended.
    > In theory they should be straightforward but in practice they are a
    > nightmare. Also tax credits paid during a tax year are basically an
    > "advance" of the tax credit you would receive at the end of the tax year
    > once your earnings for the year have been, well, earned. If you have
    > received the correct amount then all is fine. If you have received too
    > little then there's a nice little bonus due. If you have received too much
    > then it's possibly (but not always) cough the cash up time as you will
    > have been overpaid. Except you may not know you are being overpaid at the
    > time you got the tax credits as the actual assessment for tax credit
    > amounts is overly complex. Plus if you do not provide the correct sort of
    > information at the end of the tax year (and by July 31) to reconcile your
    > income for the tax year just ended in April then HMRC can rule you have
    > been overpaid ALL of your tax credits paid during the year even if you
    > were due them at the time. This last part may be what has happened to
    > Nomen, though I'm not 100% sure.
    >
    > Gordon Brown introduced tax credits to simplify the old Family Credit
    > earnings top up scheme which based a top up on an average of your earnings
    > for the last month or two... the last system was unfair (do overtime in
    > that period and you lost out as FC payments were fixed for 6 months,
    > similarly many people would drop their hours during the period to get more
    > FC) but at least it was easier to work out how much you would get per
    > week.
    >
    > --
    > Robbie


    I can see how this system might cause problems for some people if they
    calculate net income rather than gross income. And then there is overtime to
    consider, still shouldn't be that far out. I think the lesson here is to err
    on the side of caution. Still it should not be that difficult to work out,
    then again what happens if the job only lasts for say 6 months, then you are
    screwed. That means you were over paid 50% in TC's based on 12 mts
    calculations.

    Its a bit complicated and should be treated with caution. Most people are
    not that clever at maths, and most will not know how long they are going to
    be in employment, never mind when the tax year begins and ends, and thats
    another problem, having just got a job in the middle or near the end of a
    tax year, and then losing the job part way into a new tax year. You need
    some accounting skills to work it out. Then there is the tax credit rules to
    consider, I suppose the amount of earnings you get has something to do with
    it. And what happens if you only work 3 mts and end up back on the dole,
    will they say you can keep the TC's paid, I doubt it. Thats a 75% over
    payment if you started work at the beginning of the tax year.
     
    Niteawk, Dec 21, 2010
    #8
  9. Nomen Nescio

    Robbie Guest

    Niteawk wrote:
    >
    > "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> The problem with tax credits is that they are assessed on annual
    >> taxable income, initially on the taxable income received in the
    >> previous tax year then at the end of the current tax year the tax
    >> credits received are reconciled against taxable income earned during
    >> the tax year just ended. In theory they should be straightforward but
    >> in practice they are a nightmare. Also tax credits paid during a tax
    >> year are basically an "advance" of the tax credit you would receive at
    >> the end of the tax year once your earnings for the year have been,
    >> well, earned. If you have received the correct amount then all is
    >> fine. If you have received too little then there's a nice little bonus
    >> due. If you have received too much then it's possibly (but not always)
    >> cough the cash up time as you will have been overpaid. Except you may
    >> not know you are being overpaid at the time you got the tax credits as
    >> the actual assessment for tax credit amounts is overly complex. Plus
    >> if you do not provide the correct sort of information at the end of
    >> the tax year (and by July 31) to reconcile your income for the tax
    >> year just ended in April then HMRC can rule you have been overpaid ALL
    >> of your tax credits paid during the year even if you were due them at
    >> the time. This last part may be what has happened to Nomen, though I'm
    >> not 100% sure.
    >>
    >> Gordon Brown introduced tax credits to simplify the old Family Credit
    >> earnings top up scheme which based a top up on an average of your
    >> earnings for the last month or two... the last system was unfair (do
    >> overtime in that period and you lost out as FC payments were fixed for
    >> 6 months, similarly many people would drop their hours during the
    >> period to get more FC) but at least it was easier to work out how much
    >> you would get per week.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Robbie

    >
    > I can see how this system might cause problems for some people if they
    > calculate net income rather than gross income. And then there is
    > overtime to consider, still shouldn't be that far out. I think the
    > lesson here is to err on the side of caution. Still it should not be
    > that difficult to work out, then again what happens if the job only
    > lasts for say 6 months, then you are screwed. That means you were over
    > paid 50% in TC's based on 12 mts calculations.
    >
    > Its a bit complicated and should be treated with caution. Most people
    > are not that clever at maths, and most will not know how long they are
    > going to be in employment, never mind when the tax year begins and ends,
    > and thats another problem, having just got a job in the middle or near
    > the end of a tax year, and then losing the job part way into a new tax
    > year. You need some accounting skills to work it out. Then there is the
    > tax credit rules to consider, I suppose the amount of earnings you get
    > has something to do with it. And what happens if you only work 3 mts and
    > end up back on the dole, will they say you can keep the TC's paid, I
    > doubt it. Thats a 75% over payment if you started work at the beginning
    > of the tax year.


    If you end up back on the dole after 3 months you should - in theory -
    be paid correctly or underpaid. In theory (at least) you shouldn't be
    overpaid.

    --
    Robbie
     
    Robbie, Dec 21, 2010
    #9
  10. Nomen Nescio

    Niteawk Guest

    "Robbie" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >
    > If you end up back on the dole after 3 months you should - in theory - be
    > paid correctly or underpaid. In theory (at least) you shouldn't be
    > overpaid.
    >


    In theory, yes. I seriously doubt if it can be that simple in practice, then
    a few weeks later you get another job and so on. ;)
     
    Niteawk, Dec 21, 2010
    #10
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