rollover from 401k or IRA into another IRA treated as a contribution, why?

Discussion in 'Quicken' started by Scott Lindner, Mar 11, 2007.

  1. I'm using Quicken Premier 2007 for Windows. I have been moving my 401k and
    Traditional IRA money into a new Traditional IRA account managed by a
    financial planner. When I transfer the funds to this new IRA account
    Quicken asks if it's a distribution, and then what tax year the contribution
    applies to. The way I see it, it's neither of these. I suspect the basis
    behind these questions if for tax planning purposes in Quicken. Is this
    true? Wouldn't this affect the tax plan because Quicken is making incorrect
    assumptions for why and how these funds are being taken out or put into IRA
    accounts?

    What is the appropriate way to handle this situation in Quicken?

    Cheers,
    Scott
     
    Scott Lindner, Mar 11, 2007
    #1
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  2. Scott Lindner

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Scott.

    You DID make the transfer DIRECTLY from Trustee to Trustee, didn't you?
    Getting the assets into your own hands, even for an instant, is a BIG no-no!
    And your financial planner certainly should know this rule.

    I've been retired for over a decade and I've never used the retirement
    accounts in Quicken, so you'd better check this with your own CPA.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX
    (Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Currently running Vista Ultimate x64)

    "Scott Lindner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'm using Quicken Premier 2007 for Windows. I have been moving my 401k
    > and Traditional IRA money into a new Traditional IRA account managed by a
    > financial planner. When I transfer the funds to this new IRA account
    > Quicken asks if it's a distribution, and then what tax year the
    > contribution applies to. The way I see it, it's neither of these. I
    > suspect the basis behind these questions if for tax planning purposes in
    > Quicken. Is this true? Wouldn't this affect the tax plan because Quicken
    > is making incorrect assumptions for why and how these funds are being
    > taken out or put into IRA accounts?
    >
    > What is the appropriate way to handle this situation in Quicken?
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Scott
     
    R. C. White, Mar 11, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Scott Lindner

    Martin K Guest

    Re: rollover from 401k or IRA into another IRA treated as a contribution,why?

    R. C. White wrote:
    > Hi, Scott.
    >
    > You DID make the transfer DIRECTLY from Trustee to Trustee, didn't you?
    > Getting the assets into your own hands, even for an instant, is a BIG
    > no-no! And your financial planner certainly should know this rule.
    >
    > I've been retired for over a decade and I've never used the retirement
    > accounts in Quicken, so you'd better check this with your own CPA.
    >
    > RC

    Whoa RC, I have been retired for two years now and all of my and my
    spouse (also retired) Vanguard retirement accounts are in Quicken. These
    include ROTH IRA and traditional (and rollover IRA's with brokerage
    accounts). Before they were Vanguard accounts they were 401K accounts
    (with our last employers) with Fidelity which we rolled directly to
    Vanguard after we were retired.

    Why don't you track your retirement accounts in Quicken? Quicken
    provides a very convenient way to keep track of these accounts on
    a daily basis.

    BTW, I look forward to your replies to various problems that users have
    with Quicken along with your general accounting knowledge.

    Thanks
    Marty
     
    Martin K, Mar 11, 2007
    #3
  4. > You DID make the transfer DIRECTLY from Trustee to Trustee, didn't you?
    > Getting the assets into your own hands, even for an instant, is a BIG
    > no-no! And your financial planner certainly should know this rule.


    I'm not sure how the method of performing a rollover would affect how
    Quicken treats the transfer between accounts. Is there something I'm
    missing?


    > I've been retired for over a decade and I've never used the retirement
    > accounts in Quicken, so you'd better check this with your own CPA.


    My CPA wouldn't know about Quicken. She can help me with financial planning
    though.

    Scott
     
    Scott Lindner, Mar 11, 2007
    #4
  5. Scott Lindner

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Marty.

    > Why don't you track your retirement accounts in Quicken?


    Because I don't have any retirement accounts. At least, none that are
    typically referred to by that phrase. I've never had a Keogh or an IRA or
    any other such account. That's because of a combination of my personal
    investment philosophy - and timing. At about the time my CPA partnership
    was ready to consider such a plan for our employees and partners in the late
    1970's, I retired from the partnership. My later individual proprietorship
    took a while to become profitable, so I was not eligible to start a plan.
    (You gotta have net income; losses don't qualify.) And soon my income was
    all from investments, not earnings, so such a plan was not available.
    Remember that many of the current provisions (like Roth) were not available
    in those olden days.

    As to philosophy, I don't care to start a long thread about it. Suffice it
    to say that I never liked the idea of putting myself into a position where
    the government might tax me for using my own savings, and even to penalize
    me for using my money too soon or too little at a time. My philosophy was
    to pay my taxes on my earnings so that whatever is left over is mine to keep
    and to invest as I see fit, not as some Congressman thinks I should. And I
    don't need permission from Congress or the IRS or anybody else to spend my
    savings when and as I choose.

    I know that I'm in the minority on this topic. Your mileage may vary. ;^}

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX
    (Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Currently running Vista Ultimate x64)

    "Martin K" <> wrote in message
    news:YS_Ih.7305$t8.2033@trndny02...
    > R. C. White wrote:
    >> Hi, Scott.
    >>
    >> You DID make the transfer DIRECTLY from Trustee to Trustee, didn't you?
    >> Getting the assets into your own hands, even for an instant, is a BIG
    >> no-no! And your financial planner certainly should know this rule.
    >>
    >> I've been retired for over a decade and I've never used the retirement
    >> accounts in Quicken, so you'd better check this with your own CPA.
    >>
    >> RC

    > Whoa RC, I have been retired for two years now and all of my and my spouse
    > (also retired) Vanguard retirement accounts are in Quicken. These include
    > ROTH IRA and traditional (and rollover IRA's with brokerage accounts).
    > Before they were Vanguard accounts they were 401K accounts (with our last
    > employers) with Fidelity which we rolled directly to
    > Vanguard after we were retired.
    >
    > Why don't you track your retirement accounts in Quicken? Quicken provides
    > a very convenient way to keep track of these accounts on
    > a daily basis.
    >
    > BTW, I look forward to your replies to various problems that users have
    > with Quicken along with your general accounting knowledge.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Marty
     
    R. C. White, Mar 19, 2007
    #5
  6. Scott Lindner

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Scott.

    Sorry for the delay in responding. The 2007 Microsoft MVP Global Summit was
    last week (3/12-3/16) in Seattle and Redmond. We learned a lot about
    Windows, Vista, etc. - but nothing about IRAs or Quicken. ;^}

    See below...

    "Scott Lindner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> You DID make the transfer DIRECTLY from Trustee to Trustee, didn't you?
    >> Getting the assets into your own hands, even for an instant, is a BIG
    >> no-no! And your financial planner certainly should know this rule.

    >
    > I'm not sure how the method of performing a rollover would affect how
    > Quicken treats the transfer between accounts. Is there something I'm
    > missing?


    It's something that Quicken has NO control over. You make the transfer and
    then tell Quicken how you did it. The tax rules (I'm 90% sure that this
    rule has not changed) say that if YOU get your hands on the assets of the
    IRA, then it is taxable to you immediately, even if you turn all the assets
    over to the new trustee on the same day. The only way to avoid immediate
    taxation - and penalties - is to have the old Trustee deliver the assets
    (cash, stock, whatever) to the new Trustee directly.

    >> I've been retired for over a decade and I've never used the retirement
    >> accounts in Quicken, so you'd better check this with your own CPA.

    >
    > My CPA wouldn't know about Quicken. She can help me with financial
    > planning though.


    This Trustee-to-Trustee warning is probably in BIG LETTERS on page 1 of the
    Financial Planner's Handbook. If she doesn't know this rule, then you need
    a new CPA.

    > Scott


    My comments on this are based on your statements in your first message:
    "When I transfer the funds to this new IRA account
    Quicken asks if it's a distribution..." This sounds as though you received
    the funds and delivered them to the new Trustee. If that is not true, then
    my warning and my whole train of thought may not apply at all.

    Could you please restate your original question? Please include such
    details as HOW the funds went from the old Trustee to the new Trustee. And
    we are not talking about who MANAGES the funds, but who actually holds the
    legal title for your benefit: the Trustee. Usually (but not always) this
    is a bank or other financial institution. The Trustee follows instructions
    from you or your planner or other agent. What license or other professional
    qualification does your planner hold?

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX
    (Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Currently running Vista Ultimate x64)
     
    R. C. White, Mar 19, 2007
    #6
  7. Scott Lindner

    John Pollard Guest

    R. C. White wrote:
    > Hi, Scott.
    >
    > Sorry for the delay in responding. The 2007 Microsoft
    > MVP Global Summit was last week (3/12-3/16) in Seattle
    > and Redmond. We learned a lot about Windows, Vista, etc.
    > - but nothing about IRAs or Quicken. ;^}
    > See below...


    > "Scott Lindner" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>> You DID make the transfer DIRECTLY from Trustee to
    >>> Trustee, didn't you? Getting the assets into your own
    >>> hands, even for an instant, is a BIG no-no! And your
    >>> financial planner certainly should know this rule.

    >>
    >> I'm not sure how the method of performing a rollover
    >> would affect how Quicken treats the transfer between
    >> accounts. Is there something I'm missing?


    > It's something that Quicken has NO control over. You
    > make the transfer and then tell Quicken how you did it. The
    > tax rules (I'm 90% sure that this rule has not
    > changed) say that if YOU get your hands on the assets of
    > the IRA, then it is taxable to you immediately, even if
    > you turn all the assets over to the new trustee on the
    > same day. The only way to avoid immediate taxation - and
    > penalties - is to have the old Trustee deliver the assets
    > (cash, stock, whatever) to the new Trustee directly.


    >>> I've been retired for over a decade and I've never used
    >>> the retirement accounts in Quicken, so you'd better
    >>> check this with your own CPA.


    >> My CPA wouldn't know about Quicken. She can help me
    >> with financial planning though.


    > This Trustee-to-Trustee warning is probably in BIG
    > LETTERS on page 1 of the Financial Planner's Handbook. If she
    > doesn't know this rule, then you need a new CPA.


    > My comments on this are based on your statements in your
    > first message: "When I transfer the funds to this new IRA
    > account Quicken asks if it's a distribution..." This sounds
    > as
    > though you received the funds and delivered them to the
    > new Trustee. If that is not true, then my warning and my
    > whole train of thought may not apply at all.


    I believe that Quicken has a problem handling certain retirement
    account (tax deferred account) transactions.

    For one or two Quicken versions at least, there's a straight
    forward bug ... with consequences that are difficult to
    determine. Those are instances when Quicken is intending to
    determine the tax year of a contribution ... but only allows the
    user to enter tax years that are clearly incorrect. (I do not
    know exactly what Quicken does with the the "tax year" for
    contributions.) [A workaround is to enter the "transfer" in the
    FROM account, where Quicken does offer the correct tax year
    options.]

    A more general problem is that Quicken (at least up through
    Q2006, I think, and probably Q2007), does not have any ability
    to grasp that a "deposit" of cash to a retirement account can be
    anything other than a "contribution". Quicken does not have the
    ability to treat a Quicken "transfer" of cash from one
    "retirement" account to another "retirement" account as anything
    other than a "contribution" in the TO account (and I think, a
    retirement withdrawal in the FROM account - because deposits and
    withdrawals to Quicken tax deferred accounts are controlled by
    the "tax attributes" for that account).

    [For clarification: if one is selling assets in one traditional
    IRA account and transferring the cash to another traditional IRA
    account to buy assets in the new IRA account ... Quicken thinks
    the transfer is a "contribution" in the TO account - and I
    suspect a taxable retirement withdrawal in the FROM account.]

    The "contribution" side shows up clearly when you do the
    transfer, but it's not clear to me how Quicken treats those
    transfers later. I don't use Turbo Tax, which is one place the
    results could cause a problem.

    I have not tested it, but I suspect that Quicken tax reports
    could be customized to exclude the above type transactions
    assuming Quicken listed them incorrectly, but it would certainly
    be simpler and less anxiety producing if Quicken had the ability
    to deal with the transactions correctly at the time they
    occurred.

    > Could you please restate your original question? Please
    > include such details as HOW the funds went from the old
    > Trustee to the new Trustee. And we are not talking about
    > who MANAGES the funds, but who actually holds the legal
    > title for your benefit: the Trustee. Usually (but not
    > always) this is a bank or other financial institution. The
    > Trustee follows instructions from you or your planner
    > or other agent. What license or other professional
    > qualification does your planner hold?
    > RC


    --
    John Pollard
    First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
    Please reply to newsgroup
     
    John Pollard, Mar 19, 2007
    #7
  8. Scott Lindner

    Martin K Guest

    Re: rollover from 401k or IRA into another IRA treated as a contribution,why?

    R. C. White wrote:
    > Hi, Marty.
    >
    >> Why don't you track your retirement accounts in Quicken?

    >
    > Because I don't have any retirement accounts. At least, none that are
    > typically referred to by that phrase. I've never had a Keogh or an IRA
    > or any other such account. That's because of a combination of my
    > personal investment philosophy - and timing. At about the time my CPA
    > partnership was ready to consider such a plan for our employees and
    > partners in the late 1970's, I retired from the partnership. My later
    > individual proprietorship took a while to become profitable, so I was
    > not eligible to start a plan. (You gotta have net income; losses don't
    > qualify.) And soon my income was all from investments, not earnings, so
    > such a plan was not available. Remember that many of the current
    > provisions (like Roth) were not available in those olden days.
    >
    > As to philosophy, I don't care to start a long thread about it. Suffice
    > it to say that I never liked the idea of putting myself into a position
    > where the government might tax me for using my own savings, and even to
    > penalize me for using my money too soon or too little at a time. My
    > philosophy was to pay my taxes on my earnings so that whatever is left
    > over is mine to keep and to invest as I see fit, not as some Congressman
    > thinks I should. And I don't need permission from Congress or the IRS
    > or anybody else to spend my savings when and as I choose.
    >
    > I know that I'm in the minority on this topic. Your mileage may vary. ;^}
    >
    > RC

    Thanks for the reply, I didn't think of the obvious answer.

    As to your philosophy, I am sure you are not the only one that feels
    this way. But I can say without reservations that having access to
    a 401K plan made it a much easier, and painless way to save for
    retirement. Without the 401K plan I would not have been able
    to retire at 61.

    In any case I have been monitoring this newsgroup for awhile now
    and I always look forward to the replies to the questions
    that you and other regulars post. Don't stop.
    Marty
     
    Martin K, Mar 20, 2007
    #8
  9. Scott Lindner

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, John.

    Thanks for jumping in. As you can see and as I readily admit, I'm way over
    my head when discussing retirement plans in Quicken.

    I replied to Scott originally only to caution him to watch out for the
    apparent Trustee-to-Scott-to-Trustee transfers that his first post seemed to
    indicate.

    Of course, the IRS really doesn't care how you handle this in Quicken. But
    they DO CARE how you handle it on your tax return, whether you use TurboTax
    or a pencil to prepare your return. Quicken SHOULD transfer the info
    correctly to TT, but it might not. It's up to YOU the taxpayer, not Intuit,
    to make sure that the tax return is correct.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX
    (Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Currently running Vista Ultimate x64)

    "John Pollard" <> wrote in message
    news:8WELh.25329$y92.9401@attbi_s22...
    > R. C. White wrote:
    >> Hi, Scott.
    >>
    >> Sorry for the delay in responding. The 2007 Microsoft
    >> MVP Global Summit was last week (3/12-3/16) in Seattle
    >> and Redmond. We learned a lot about Windows, Vista, etc.
    >> - but nothing about IRAs or Quicken. ;^}
    >> See below...

    >
    >> "Scott Lindner" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>> You DID make the transfer DIRECTLY from Trustee to
    >>>> Trustee, didn't you? Getting the assets into your own
    >>>> hands, even for an instant, is a BIG no-no! And your
    >>>> financial planner certainly should know this rule.
    >>>
    >>> I'm not sure how the method of performing a rollover
    >>> would affect how Quicken treats the transfer between
    >>> accounts. Is there something I'm missing?

    >
    >> It's something that Quicken has NO control over. You
    >> make the transfer and then tell Quicken how you did it. The tax rules
    >> (I'm 90% sure that this rule has not
    >> changed) say that if YOU get your hands on the assets of
    >> the IRA, then it is taxable to you immediately, even if
    >> you turn all the assets over to the new trustee on the
    >> same day. The only way to avoid immediate taxation - and
    >> penalties - is to have the old Trustee deliver the assets
    >> (cash, stock, whatever) to the new Trustee directly.

    >
    >>>> I've been retired for over a decade and I've never used
    >>>> the retirement accounts in Quicken, so you'd better
    >>>> check this with your own CPA.

    >
    >>> My CPA wouldn't know about Quicken. She can help me
    >>> with financial planning though.

    >
    >> This Trustee-to-Trustee warning is probably in BIG
    >> LETTERS on page 1 of the Financial Planner's Handbook. If she doesn't
    >> know this rule, then you need a new CPA.

    >
    >> My comments on this are based on your statements in your
    >> first message: "When I transfer the funds to this new IRA
    >> account Quicken asks if it's a distribution..." This sounds as
    >> though you received the funds and delivered them to the
    >> new Trustee. If that is not true, then my warning and my
    >> whole train of thought may not apply at all.

    >
    > I believe that Quicken has a problem handling certain retirement account
    > (tax deferred account) transactions.
    >
    > For one or two Quicken versions at least, there's a straight forward bug
    > ... with consequences that are difficult to determine. Those are
    > instances when Quicken is intending to determine the tax year of a
    > contribution ... but only allows the user to enter tax years that are
    > clearly incorrect. (I do not know exactly what Quicken does with the the
    > "tax year" for contributions.) [A workaround is to enter the "transfer"
    > in the FROM account, where Quicken does offer the correct tax year
    > options.]
    >
    > A more general problem is that Quicken (at least up through Q2006, I
    > think, and probably Q2007), does not have any ability to grasp that a
    > "deposit" of cash to a retirement account can be anything other than a
    > "contribution". Quicken does not have the ability to treat a Quicken
    > "transfer" of cash from one "retirement" account to another "retirement"
    > account as anything other than a "contribution" in the TO account (and I
    > think, a retirement withdrawal in the FROM account - because deposits and
    > withdrawals to Quicken tax deferred accounts are controlled by the "tax
    > attributes" for that account).
    >
    > [For clarification: if one is selling assets in one traditional IRA
    > account and transferring the cash to another traditional IRA account to
    > buy assets in the new IRA account ... Quicken thinks the transfer is a
    > "contribution" in the TO account - and I suspect a taxable retirement
    > withdrawal in the FROM account.]
    >
    > The "contribution" side shows up clearly when you do the transfer, but
    > it's not clear to me how Quicken treats those transfers later. I don't
    > use Turbo Tax, which is one place the results could cause a problem.
    >
    > I have not tested it, but I suspect that Quicken tax reports could be
    > customized to exclude the above type transactions assuming Quicken listed
    > them incorrectly, but it would certainly be simpler and less anxiety
    > producing if Quicken had the ability to deal with the transactions
    > correctly at the time they occurred.
    >
    >> Could you please restate your original question? Please
    >> include such details as HOW the funds went from the old
    >> Trustee to the new Trustee. And we are not talking about
    >> who MANAGES the funds, but who actually holds the legal
    >> title for your benefit: the Trustee. Usually (but not
    >> always) this is a bank or other financial institution. The Trustee
    >> follows instructions from you or your planner
    >> or other agent. What license or other professional
    >> qualification does your planner hold?
    >> RC

    >
    > --
    > John Pollard
     
    R. C. White, Mar 20, 2007
    #9
  10. > It's something that Quicken has NO control over. You make the transfer
    > and then tell Quicken how you did it. The tax rules (I'm 90% sure that
    > this rule has not changed) say that if YOU get your hands on the assets of
    > the IRA, then it is taxable to you immediately, even if you turn all the
    > assets over to the new trustee on the same day. The only way to avoid
    > immediate taxation - and penalties - is to have the old Trustee deliver
    > the assets (cash, stock, whatever) to the new Trustee directly.


    It is something Quicken has control over. I'm talking strictly about
    Quicken and nothing more. So it is definitely something Quicken has control
    over. I had a 401k, now I have an IRA. The funds from that 401k are now in
    that IRA. As the diligent uber Quicken geek that I am, I want to capture
    the nature of this transaction in my Quicken data set. Prior to entering
    this, I had a crapload of money in a 401k account which I had recorded in
    Quicken. Today, I have a crap load of money in an IRA account. Those funds
    in that IRA account are not a contribution, they are a rollover. Quicken is
    asking me what tax year I made the contribution. The problem is, I never
    contributed those funds to that IRA account.


    > This Trustee-to-Trustee warning is probably in BIG LETTERS on page 1 of
    > the Financial Planner's Handbook. If she doesn't know this rule, then you
    > need a new CPA.


    She's completely fine with her understanding of 401k to IRA rollovers. What
    she can't help me with is why Quicken on my computer wants to treat it as a
    contribution instead of a rollover.

    Scott
     
    Scott Lindner, Mar 26, 2007
    #10
  11. > Of course, the IRS really doesn't care how you handle this in Quicken.
    > But they DO CARE how you handle it on your tax return, whether you use
    > TurboTax or a pencil to prepare your return. Quicken SHOULD transfer the
    > info correctly to TT, but it might not. It's up to YOU the taxpayer, not
    > Intuit, to make sure that the tax return is correct.


    You're absolutely right. The IRS doesn't care how I handle this in Quicken,
    but I care greatly to know the state of my finances. This is what I use
    Quicken for. I can only assume that all Quicken users use Quicken to
    capture the state of their finances. When things happen in the real world
    regarding my finances, I like to capture them in Quicken. All of my
    questions in this thread are about Quicken. None of them are about IRS
    rules, law, my CPA's education, or the means of how the funds got from one
    account to another. My questions are 100% about Quicken, and nothing more.

    So.. coming back to the beginning. When I transfer funds from my 401k to my
    IRA *IN QUICKEN* the Quicken software asks what year I am making this
    contribution to my IRA account. The problem is, it isn't a contribution.
    How do I handle this properly *IN QUICKEN*. I hope you don't feel I'm being
    rude, but you're completely missing the question I'm asking. My CPA is
    qualified. I know the law. The IRS doesn't care how I use Quicken, but I
    do care how Quicken captures my financial state and my questions are wholly
    about Quicken.

    Cheers,
    Scott
     
    Scott Lindner, Mar 26, 2007
    #11
  12. Scott Lindner

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Scott.

    I'm sorry if I made this question more complicated than it should have been.
    I should have assumed that your plan assets were properly transferred
    directly from the old plan to the new one. But when your first post said
    you were moving your money to a new account, it triggered my "alert
    response" and I reacted with the standard caution to be sure you didn't
    handle the funds personally, even for a moment. That would have caused more
    complications, probably including penalties.

    I was not even thinking of how to handle it in Quicken, and I should have
    made that clear. On that point, I'll gladly defer to John Pollard.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX
    (Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Currently running Vista Ultimate x64)

    "Scott Lindner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> It's something that Quicken has NO control over. You make the transfer
    >> and then tell Quicken how you did it. The tax rules (I'm 90% sure that
    >> this rule has not changed) say that if YOU get your hands on the assets
    >> of the IRA, then it is taxable to you immediately, even if you turn all
    >> the assets over to the new trustee on the same day. The only way to
    >> avoid immediate taxation - and penalties - is to have the old Trustee
    >> deliver the assets (cash, stock, whatever) to the new Trustee directly.

    >
    > It is something Quicken has control over. I'm talking strictly about
    > Quicken and nothing more. So it is definitely something Quicken has
    > control over. I had a 401k, now I have an IRA. The funds from that 401k
    > are now in that IRA. As the diligent uber Quicken geek that I am, I want
    > to capture the nature of this transaction in my Quicken data set. Prior
    > to entering this, I had a crapload of money in a 401k account which I had
    > recorded in Quicken. Today, I have a crap load of money in an IRA
    > account. Those funds in that IRA account are not a contribution, they are
    > a rollover. Quicken is asking me what tax year I made the contribution.
    > The problem is, I never contributed those funds to that IRA account.
    >
    >
    >> This Trustee-to-Trustee warning is probably in BIG LETTERS on page 1 of
    >> the Financial Planner's Handbook. If she doesn't know this rule, then
    >> you need a new CPA.

    >
    > She's completely fine with her understanding of 401k to IRA rollovers.
    > What she can't help me with is why Quicken on my computer wants to treat
    > it as a contribution instead of a rollover.
    >
    > Scott
     
    R. C. White, Mar 26, 2007
    #12
  13. > I'm sorry if I made this question more complicated than it should have
    > been. I should have assumed that your plan assets were properly
    > transferred directly from the old plan to the new one. But when your
    > first post said you were moving your money to a new account, it triggered
    > my "alert response" and I reacted with the standard caution to be sure you
    > didn't handle the funds personally, even for a moment. That would have
    > caused more complications, probably including penalties.


    No problems. I understand very well how easy it is to misinterpret the
    intent of a post online.


    > I was not even thinking of how to handle it in Quicken, and I should have
    > made that clear. On that point, I'll gladly defer to John Pollard.


    Duh... all technical questions regarding Quicken end with John Pollard. :)

    Cheers,
    Scott
     
    Scott Lindner, Mar 27, 2007
    #13
  14. Scott Lindner

    Oilcan Guest

    On Mar 26, 6:02 pm, "Scott Lindner" <> wrote:
    > > I'm sorry if I made this question more complicated than it should have
    > > been. I should have assumed that your plan assets were properly
    > > transferred directly from the old plan to the new one. But when your
    > > first post said you were moving your money to a new account, it triggered
    > > my "alert response" and I reacted with the standard caution to be sure you
    > > didn't handle the funds personally, even for a moment. That would have
    > > caused more complications, probably including penalties.

    >
    > No problems. I understand very well how easy it is to misinterpret the
    > intent of a post online.
    >
    > > I was not even thinking of how to handle it in Quicken, and I should have
    > > made that clear. On that point, I'll gladly defer to John Pollard.

    >
    > Duh... all technical questions regarding Quicken end with John Pollard. :)
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Scott


    If you transferred 100% of your 401K to an IRA (which I have done), I
    just renamed the Account and adjusted the securities (buys and sells)
    as it was a cash transfer). I entered a comment on the Account that
    it was my 401K, (plus all of the historical statements would indicated
    that).
     
    Oilcan, Mar 27, 2007
    #14
  15. > If you transferred 100% of your 401K to an IRA (which I have done), I
    > just renamed the Account and adjusted the securities (buys and sells)
    > as it was a cash transfer). I entered a comment on the Account that
    > it was my 401K, (plus all of the historical statements would indicated
    > that).


    That's not a bad idea. It defeats the apparante program flaw in Q07. Of
    course, that's not how it happened, but do I care? Hmm.. are there
    downsides to using your creative (and lazy :) ) shortcut?

    I'm curious though, what are the tax planning implications of Quicken
    treating my transfer of funds incorrectly?

    Scott
     
    Scott Lindner, Mar 27, 2007
    #15
  16. There definitely is something wrong with how Quicken is handling this. I
    just noticed that when I go to the Performance tab for all of my investment
    accounts the graph's total value is exactly double the real value. I
    suspect it's related to Quicken treating my rollover as a contribution. The
    old account values are $0.00, so I don't completely understand how Quicken
    can show the net value of all investment accounts as double what they really
    are in the Growth of $10,000 graph. Any thoughts?

    Cheers,
    Scott
     
    Scott Lindner, Apr 12, 2007
    #16
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