Accountants Certificate


P

Pamela

I am self-employed and don't have accounts. I need an Accountant's
Certificate in order to apply for a home. Can you help?
 
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T

troysteadman

Pamela said:
I am self-employed and don't have accounts. I need an Accountant's
Certificate in order to apply for a home. Can you help?
You will have to have accounts. You presumably have Invoices, Bank
Statements, written lists of your Incomings and Outgoings? If you
haven't then you need to assemble what information you can and take
take it to a good local Chartered or Chartered Certified Accountant
(get someone you know and trust to recommend *their* accountant).

There are accountants on this group I know and trust and can recommend,
amongst whom Peter Saxton of SW London, Martin and John Griffey. (DF &
KI are retiring).
 
J

Joe Soap

You will have to have accounts. You presumably have Invoices, Bank
Statements, written lists of your Incomings and Outgoings? If you
haven't then you need to assemble what information you can and take
take it to a good local Chartered or Chartered Certified Accountant
(get someone you know and trust to recommend *their* accountant).

There are accountants on this group I know and trust and can recommend,
amongst whom Peter Saxton of SW London, Martin and John Griffey. (DF &
KI are retiring).
She doesn't have to have accounts, and she doesn't have to use an
accountant. What she DOES have to do is fill in the IR forms - which might
drive her to using an accountant, but it aint compulsory.

As for the certificate - I would say that I don't use an accountant, and
ask what else will do instead? If the business has been running fior some
time, maybe IR assessments/demands would do.
 
D

Dave T

Joe said:
She doesn't have to have accounts, and she doesn't have to use an
accountant. What she DOES have to do is fill in the IR forms - which might
drive her to using an accountant, but it aint compulsory.

As for the certificate - I would say that I don't use an accountant, and
ask what else will do instead? If the business has been running fior some
time, maybe IR assessments/demands would do.
As a self-employed person, you are correct in that accounts are not
compulsory.

However, the OP appears to be buying a house. If a lender wants an
Accountants Certificate confirming the accuracy of her income, then
that's what they need.

It may be sufficient for an accountant to look at the figures for the
last few years and confirm, in a single-page letter addressed to the
lender, that net profit for last year was £x. It shouldn't cost much as
a one-off assignment.
 
T

troysteadman

Joe said:
She doesn't have to have accounts, and she doesn't have to use an
accountant. What she DOES have to do is fill in the IR forms - which might
drive her to using an accountant, but it aint compulsory.
Whether she uses an accountant or not she must still produce accounts.
Where do you think the figures come from for the IR forms?
 
J

Joe Soap

Whether she uses an accountant or not she must still produce accounts.
Where do you think the figures come from for the IR forms?
IR man: Can I see your accounts please?

Joe: Sorry, I haven't got any. Here is my box of bills, receipts etc. which
I referred to to fill in your forms.
 
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P

Peter Saxton

I am self-employed and don't have accounts. I need an Accountant's
Certificate in order to apply for a home. Can you help?
If you have problems why dont you choose a self-certify mortgage? You
would need a bigger deposit though and get charged a higher rate of
interest.
 
T

troysteadman

Joe said:
IR man: Can I see your accounts please?

Joe: Sorry, I haven't got any. Here is my box of bills, receipts etc. which
I referred to to fill in your forms.
Uh huh!

IR man: Can you tell me what...

Travel £2,000
Electric £500
[add very long list]

....comprise?

Joe: Not offhand no.
IR man: In that case I assess you for another £10,000 of tax.
Joe: Oops! I'd better see if I can reconstruct the figures from this
huge box of invoices. Oh bugger! How did I come up with that figure for
Travel?
 
R

Ronald Raygun

Uh huh!

IR man: Can you tell me what...

Travel £2,000
Electric £500
[add very long list]

...comprise?
Joe: Certainly. It's all there in the box. Take all the time you need.
Joe: Not offhand no.
IR man: In that case I assess you for another £10,000 of tax.
Joe: You can't do that, it violates the Taxpayer's Charter.
 
T

troysteadman

Ronald said:
Uh huh!

IR man: Can you tell me what...

Travel £2,000
Electric £500
[add very long list]

...comprise?
Joe: Certainly. It's all there in the box. Take all the time you need.
IR: I've taken all the time I want and having looked at your box *very*
carefully I've assessed you for £10,000 more tax. Here's your box
back. Oops sorry! I appear to have lost it.
Joe: You can't do that, it violates the Taxpayer's Charter.
Bollocks it does, are you saying no business needs to keep accounts? A
Tesco carrier-bag full of incompete records is all that is required?
 
J

Joe Soap

IR: I've taken all the time I want and having looked at your box *very*
carefully I've assessed you for œ10,000 more tax. Here's your box
back. Oops sorry! I appear to have lost it.>
How did you manage that, when I refused to allow you to take it away? The
door is locked, and you stay in there until you find it.
 
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R

Ronald Raygun

IR: I've taken all the time I want and having looked at your box *very*
carefully I've assessed you for £10,000 more tax. Here's your box
back. Oops sorry! I appear to have lost it.
Have you never heard of self-assessment, laddie?
That means *I* assess my tax, not you. The worst you can do is criticise
and carp, and request clarifications, but not assess. Gone are the days
when you lot had any power over us punters. Now, if you want power,
lion-taming might be a better career choice than tax-inspecting. Or for
a less glamourous but more illuminating option, you could work for the
electricity company.
Bollocks it does, are you saying no business needs to keep accounts?
But I *have* accounts. They're in yon box!
A Tesco carrier-bag full of incompete records is all that is required?
If you'd looked at it as carefully as you claim to have, you should
be aware that it is not incomplete. Oh, and you'd also realise that a
shoe box is not a carrier bag. Now get back into the locked room and
do your job properly, before I report your slacking to your superiors.

I know you're gasping for a cuppa, and there's one here with your name
on it as soon as you agree the accuracy of my records, and not before!
<clunk, click>
 
T

Tim

IR man: In that case I assess you for another £10,000 of tax.
Joe: OK, no problem -- I'll be glad to pay that just as soon as you show me
where the extra tax has been incurred?

IR man: Oh ... err ... hmmm. I see you earnt an extra ... err ... ermm ...
nothing. Damn!
 
T

troysteadman

Tim said:
Joe: OK, no problem -- I'll be glad to pay that just as soon as you showme
where the extra tax has been incurred?

IR man: Oh ... err ... hmmm. I see you earnt an extra ... err ... ermm ....
nothing. Damn!
When I buy a newspaper sometimes the owner rings the 25p...oops I mean
75p...into the till, sometimes he chucks it in a cardboard box.

When that trader's SA form arrives at the Revenue chances are they
won't look at it. One day however it will be *his* turn and they will
see:

1) His margin is impossibly low - no one else trades at such a low
margin.
2) His profit is impossibly low - he couldn't have existed (food, car,
clothes, telephone, holidays) on such a low profit.

They announce an enquiry followed by a "discovery" and issue an
assessment for the missing year's tax. The trader can fight it but if
he fights it can only be by way of his accounts. If the figures don't
add up they don't add up!

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/sam/samast/samast03100.htm
 
J

Joe Soap

When I buy a newspaper sometimes the owner rings the 25p...oops I mean
75p...into the till, sometimes he chucks it in a cardboard box.

When that trader's SA form arrives at the Revenue chances are they
won't look at it. One day however it will be *his* turn and they will
see:

1) His margin is impossibly low - no one else trades at such a low
margin.
2) His profit is impossibly low - he couldn't have existed (food, car,
clothes, telephone, holidays) on such a low profit.

They announce an enquiry followed by a "discovery" and issue an
assessment for the missing year's tax. The trader can fight it but if
he fights it can only be by way of his accounts. If the figures don't
add up they don't add up!
Stop being silly, we are talking about principles not practicalities.

If the entire records of Joe's business are a few bits of paper and a
couple of diary entries, there is absolutely no duty on him to massage
the numbers into something called 'Accounts'. The items themselves are
enough.

And that being the case, it can be extended - in principle - to as many
bits of paper as you care to name.
 
T

Tim

When I buy a newspaper sometimes the owner rings the 25p...oops
I mean 75p...into the till, sometimes he chucks it in a cardboard box.
If the trader's underlying records are incomplete, then any set of accounts
produced from them will equally be incomplete.
So what's your point?
 
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T

troysteadman

Tim said:
If the trader's underlying records are incomplete, then any set of accounts
produced from them will equally be incomplete.
Sacre bleu! Incomplete records are the bread and butter of the
Acountancy profession. It's what Peter Saxton does all day!
 
T

troysteadman

Joe said:
Stop being silly, we are talking about principles not practicalities.

If the entire records of Joe's business are a few bits of paper and a
couple of diary entries, there is absolutely no duty on him to massage
the numbers into something called 'Accounts'. The items themselves are
enough.
Sure. The items are the accounts.
And that being the case, it can be extended - in principle - to as many
bits of paper as you care to name.
Extrapolating that an egg-timer tells you all you need to know about
the Sahara is possible, yes.
 
J

Joe Soap

Sure. The items are the accounts.


Extrapolating that an egg-timer tells you all you need to know about
the Sahara is possible, yes.
Didn't you notice? I said, "Stop being silly".
 
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T

Tim

Sacre bleu! Incomplete records are the bread and butter of the
Acountancy profession. It's what Peter Saxton does all day!
Are you suggesting that Peter makes incomplete records? ;-(

Anyway, even if an accountant "adds on" some bits (s)he thinks are
missing -- then isn't that just the same as the taxman "adding on £10K
tax"?!
 

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