Adjusting for errors in money mkt acct after closing it out


J

jo

I've closed out my Fidelity account, getting a check for the cash which wasin a linked Money Market account . Somewhere across the years I introduced some errors into it and Quicken says I have about $300 more than Fidelityhad recorded, and I'm inclined to believe them. I have not been using this account for investing for years and looking back on it, I wasn't doing any kind of reconciliations so the error could have happened many, many yearsago and I will never find it. What kind of simple adjusting entry can Imake in Quicken to wipe out the discrepancy in the Money Mkt Account?
 
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R

R. C. White

Hi, Jo.

My guess is that the excess is from unrecorded income, which should have
been reported as dividends in some prior year(s) - since a Money Market Fund
was treated like a special kind of corporation for tax purposes. The fund
collected interest and made profits on short-term sales of notes and other
interest-bearing assets. While the fund might realize interest and capital
gains, what they passed through to account-holders was taxed as dividends.

The income should have been reported as income in the prior years, of
course. If the income was intentionally omitted from your return, the IRS
might allege fraud, which would let them assess tax "at any time". But if
the omission was unintentional and the returns were filed more than three
years ago, the statute of limitations has probably run by now and it's too
late to correct the omission, even if you want to.

You might have a freebie. Or maybe there was no omission at all, just
sloppy bookkeeping. So just (in accountant-speak) debit Cash for the amount
of the check, credit Fidelity for the balance in the account and credit
Miscellaneous Income for the excess.

One small quibble: There is a difference between a Money Market ACCOUNT,
which pays INTEREST at a rate based on the "money market", and a Money
Market FUND, which buys and sells short-term assets and pays DIVIDENDS, as I
said above. In most cases, the effect on your return and your tax bill
would be identical except for which form you would use to report it, and the
time limitation would be the same either way.

Remember, Jo: I've been retired for over 20 years and some rules may have
changed, so check with your own CPA to be sure.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
(Using Quicken Deluxe 2014 R 7 and Windows Live Mail in Win8.1 x64)


"jo" wrote in message

I've closed out my Fidelity account, getting a check for the cash which was
in a linked Money Market account . Somewhere across the years I introduced
some errors into it and Quicken says I have about $300 more than Fidelity
had recorded, and I'm inclined to believe them. I have not been using this
account for investing for years and looking back on it, I wasn't doing any
kind of reconciliations so the error could have happened many, many years
ago and I will never find it. What kind of simple adjusting entry can I
make in Quicken to wipe out the discrepancy in the Money Mkt Account?
 
Z

Zaidy036

Hi, Jo.

My guess is that the excess is from unrecorded income, which should have
been reported as dividends in some prior year(s) - since a Money Market
Fund was treated like a special kind of corporation for tax purposes.
The fund collected interest and made profits on short-term sales of
notes and other interest-bearing assets. While the fund might realize
interest and capital gains, what they passed through to account-holders
was taxed as dividends.

The income should have been reported as income in the prior years, of
course. If the income was intentionally omitted from your return, the
IRS might allege fraud, which would let them assess tax "at any time".
But if the omission was unintentional and the returns were filed more
than three years ago, the statute of limitations has probably run by now
and it's too late to correct the omission, even if you want to.

You might have a freebie. Or maybe there was no omission at all, just
sloppy bookkeeping. So just (in accountant-speak) debit Cash for the
amount of the check, credit Fidelity for the balance in the account and
credit Miscellaneous Income for the excess.

One small quibble: There is a difference between a Money Market
ACCOUNT, which pays INTEREST at a rate based on the "money market", and
a Money Market FUND, which buys and sells short-term assets and pays
DIVIDENDS, as I said above. In most cases, the effect on your return
and your tax bill would be identical except for which form you would use
to report it, and the time limitation would be the same either way.

Remember, Jo: I've been retired for over 20 years and some rules may
have changed, so check with your own CPA to be sure.

RC
-- -- R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
(Using Quicken Deluxe 2014 R 7 and Windows Live Mail in Win8.1 x64)


"jo" wrote in message

I've closed out my Fidelity account, getting a check for the cash which
was in a linked Money Market account . Somewhere across the years I
introduced some errors into it and Quicken says I have about $300 more
than Fidelity had recorded, and I'm inclined to believe them. I have
not been using this account for investing for years and looking back on
it, I wasn't doing any kind of reconciliations so the error could have
happened many, many years ago and I will never find it. What kind of
simple adjusting entry can I make in Quicken to wipe out the
discrepancy in the Money Mkt Account?
One way to try and find the omission would be to download Dec. 31
statements for all the past years Fidelity offers them for and check
balances on that date.
 
J

jo

Hi Rc,
There are no tax concerns with this discrepancy because I did not use my Quicken records to report income. I always used Fidelity's 1099. This is some kind of very sloppy bookkeeping definitely. The cash in this account was held in a Pennsylvania Tax Free Muni Fund. I occasionally wrote checks against it, in which case enough shares of this fund were sold to cover them.. The asset value of a single share was and has always been $1. Initially I had a few mutual funds and one stock there, and any dividends were reinvested in the fund. The tax exempt dividends from this fund have been miniscule for years, but since i've had it for decades, and I'm strongly inclined to believe it's just some stupidity in how I recorded something, and I just never noticed it until I closed out the account. There were some opening entries back in the 90s for when I moved some holdings from another account into Fidelity, so it might even go back that far. Since it is ancient history, and does not have anything to do with taxes, I really don't want to record it as miscellaneous income since it then would show on my personalP/L as if i made some money, which I didn't.

If I had the energy to try to find the error, using year end statements that the other poster suggested I download if i can't find them, which is likely, is there a way to print a report with a running balance for this account? I tried REgister report and it doesn't give me the balance column thatI can see in the register, just the individual transaction amounts.

thanks,
jo
 
R

R. C. White

Hi, Jo.

Since it's your Quicken and nobody is likely to see it but you, just call it
anything you want. ;<)

One of my long-ago clients, a doctor's widow, had trouble balancing her
checkbook. They still had stubs in those days. Every month or two, while
entering checks from her stubs, I'd see an entry labeled "ESP". Sometimes
it was a plus, sometimes a minus, usually small amounts. When I finally
asked her about those, she explained that ESP meant "Error Some Place".
Maybe you can put your unexplained overage into your ESP account. ;<)

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
(Using Quicken Deluxe 2014 R 7 and Windows Live Mail in Win8.1 x64)


"jo" wrote in message

Hi Rc,
There are no tax concerns with this discrepancy because I did not use my
Quicken records to report income. I always used Fidelity's 1099. This is
some kind of very sloppy bookkeeping definitely. The cash in this account
was held in a Pennsylvania Tax Free Muni Fund. I occasionally wrote checks
against it, in which case enough shares of this fund were sold to cover
them. The asset value of a single share was and has always been $1.
Initially I had a few mutual funds and one stock there, and any dividends
were reinvested in the fund. The tax exempt dividends from this fund have
been miniscule for years, but since i've had it for decades, and I'm
strongly inclined to believe it's just some stupidity in how I recorded
something, and I just never noticed it until I closed out the account.
There were some opening entries back in the 90s for when I moved some
holdings from another account into Fidelity, so it might even go back that
far. Since it is ancient history, and does not have anything to do with
taxes, I really don't want to record it as miscellaneous income since it
then would show on my personal P/L as if i made some money, which I didn't.

If I had the energy to try to find the error, using year end statements that
the other poster suggested I download if i can't find them, which is likely,
is there a way to print a report with a running balance for this account? I
tried REgister report and it doesn't give me the balance column that I can
see in the register, just the individual transaction amounts.

thanks,
jo
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

Hi, Jo.

Since it's your Quicken and nobody is likely to see it but you, just call it
anything you want. ;<)

One of my long-ago clients, a doctor's widow, had trouble balancing her
checkbook. They still had stubs in those days. Every month or two, while
entering checks from her stubs, I'd see an entry labeled "ESP". Sometimes
it was a plus, sometimes a minus, usually small amounts. When I finally
asked her about those, she explained that ESP meant "Error Some Place".
Maybe you can put your unexplained overage into your ESP account. ;<)

Don't we all do that, at least now and then (although we may not call
it that)?
 
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J

jo

Don't we all do that, at least now and then (although we may not call

it that)?
I bet RC doesn't!

It's the old "short and over" category that I used to see on general ledgeraccount printouts of companies I consulted for back in the day. I've had something similar that I used in the past, but I was hoping there was a wayto avoid using it, because it makes me feel like I'm being lazy :(
 
G

Gordon

Don't we all do that, at least now and then (although we may not call
it that)?
I've done this too, many times. I just balance the account by showing
a fake cash withdrawal or deposit and pretend I took it as pocket
money or deposited it from some pocket cash. This gets the account
back in balance and I really don't need to know where that cash came
from or where I spent it.

It's so hot here in central Oklahoma that ole Satan bailed out and
went back to Hell where it is much cooler. At least he won't be
bothering us for the time being. Gordon
 
J

jo

I've done this too, many times. I just balance the account by showing

a fake cash withdrawal or deposit and pretend I took it as pocket

money or deposited it from some pocket cash. This gets the account

back in balance and I really don't need to know where that cash came

from or where I spent it.



It's so hot here in central Oklahoma that ole Satan bailed out and

went back to Hell where it is much cooler. At least he won't be

bothering us for the time being. Gordon
Do you still assign it a category? That's the kicker for me because then unless I hide that category from showing up in my personal P/L report, it looks like something significant (I.e if anyone taking over my affairs would see it, they'd wonder why it was hidden [was I hiding money] and where did it come from). It's not that I haven't done this in the past, but I was hoping there was some way of entering some kind of Remove-and-throw away proceeds as if they never happened.

In the grand scheme of life, this is minutia. I thought there might be a trick to soothe my OCD mind.
 
G

Gordon

I've done this too, many times. I just balance the account by showing

a fake cash withdrawal or deposit and pretend I took it as pocket

money or deposited it from some pocket cash. This gets the account

back in balance and I really don't need to know where that cash came

from or where I spent it.



It's so hot here in central Oklahoma that ole Satan bailed out and

went back to Hell where it is much cooler. At least he won't be

bothering us for the time being. Gordon
Do you still assign it a category? That's the kicker for me because then unless I hide that category from showing up in my personal P/L report, it looks like something significant (I.e if anyone taking over my affairs would see it, they'd wonder why it was hidden [was I hiding money] and where did it come from). It's not that I haven't done this in the past, but I was hoping there was some way of entering some kind of Remove-and-throw away proceeds as if they never happened.

In the grand scheme of life, this is minutia. I thought there might be a trick to soothe my OCD mind.
I use the category, "Pocket Money." I'm not trying to conceal this
from anyone but just getting my account balances to fall into place.
I'm usually dealing with small amounts...less than $100 at the most.
Gordon
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:04:47 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"




On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:45:42 -0500, "R. C. White" <[email protected]>

wrote:



Hi, Jo.



Since it's your Quicken and nobody is likely to see it but you, just call it

anything you want. ;<)



One of my long-ago clients, a doctor's widow, had trouble balancing her

checkbook. They still had stubs in those days. Every month or two, while

entering checks from her stubs, I'd see an entry labeled "ESP". Sometimes

it was a plus, sometimes a minus, usually small amounts. When I finally

asked her about those, she explained that ESP meant "Error Some Place".

Maybe you can put your unexplained overage into your ESP account. ;<)





Don't we all do that, at least now and then (although we may not call

it that)?



I've done this too, many times. I just balance the account by showing

a fake cash withdrawal or deposit and pretend I took it as pocket

money or deposited it from some pocket cash. This gets the account

back in balance and I really don't need to know where that cash came

from or where I spent it.



It's so hot here in central Oklahoma that ole Satan bailed out and

went back to Hell where it is much cooler. At least he won't be

bothering us for the time being. Gordon
Do you still assign it a category? That's the kicker for me because then unless I hide that category from showing up in my personal P/L report, it looks like something significant (I.e if anyone taking over my affairs would see it, they'd wonder why it was hidden [was I hiding money] and where did it come from). It's not that I haven't done this in the past, but I was hoping there was some way of entering some kind of Remove-and-throw away proceeds as if they never happened.

In the grand scheme of life, this is minutia. I thought there might be a trick to soothe my OCD mind.
I use the category, "Pocket Money." I'm not trying to conceal this
from anyone but just getting my account balances to fall into place.
I'm usually dealing with small amounts...less than $100 at the most.

Ditto to all of the above, except that I call it "Balance Adjustment."
 
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B

bartt.shelton

Hi Rc,

There are no tax concerns with this discrepancy because I did not use my Quicken records to report income. I always used Fidelity's 1099. This is some kind of very sloppy bookkeeping definitely. The cash in this accountwas held in a Pennsylvania Tax Free Muni Fund. I occasionally wrote checksagainst it, in which case enough shares of this fund were sold to cover them. The asset value of a single share was and has always been $1. Initially I had a few mutual funds and one stock there, and any dividends were reinvested in the fund. The tax exempt dividends from this fund have been miniscule for years, but since i've had it for decades, and I'm strongly inclined to believe it's just some stupidity in how I recorded something, and I just never noticed it until I closed out the account. There were some opening entries back in the 90s for when I moved some holdings from another account into Fidelity, so it might even go back that far. Since it is ancienthistory, and does not have anything to do with taxes, I really don't wantto record it as miscellaneous income since it then would show on my personal P/L as if i made some money, which I didn't.



If I had the energy to try to find the error, using year end statements that the other poster suggested I download if i can't find them, which is likely, is there a way to print a report with a running balance for this account? I tried REgister report and it doesn't give me the balance column that I can see in the register, just the individual transaction amounts.



thanks,

jo
I don't recall any Q reports that will give you a running balance, but you may still be able to track the error(s) down.

Try using the Easy Answer>>"What are my investments worth?" report. Once it opens, Customize & limit the Accounts to only those you're concerned with, then use Custom Dates. If you've got the paper statements, I'd start in 1-5 year increments & see if you can spot differences in the cash amount(s)..

Another alternative, if you've got a spreadsheet, would be to export the report. Then you could add your own running balance.
 
J

jo

I don't recall any Q reports that will give you a running balance, but you may still be able to track the error(s) down.



Try using the Easy Answer>>"What are my investments worth?" report. Onceit opens, Customize & limit the Accounts to only those you're concerned with, then use Custom Dates. If you've got the paper statements, I'd start in 1-5 year increments & see if you can spot differences in the cash amount(s).



Another alternative, if you've got a spreadsheet, would be to export the report. Then you could add your own running balance.
I'm taking the spreadsheet route. It seems the easiest. I don't have statements that go back as far as this account does anyway. It seems strangethat there isn't a report with a running balance, doesn't it?
 
J

jo

On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:04:47 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"




On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:45:42 -0500, "R. C. White" <[email protected]>

wrote:



Hi, Jo.



Since it's your Quicken and nobody is likely to see it but you, just call it

anything you want. ;<)



One of my long-ago clients, a doctor's widow, had trouble balancingher

checkbook. They still had stubs in those days. Every month or two, while

entering checks from her stubs, I'd see an entry labeled "ESP". Sometimes

it was a plus, sometimes a minus, usually small amounts. When I finally

asked her about those, she explained that ESP meant "Error Some Place".

Maybe you can put your unexplained overage into your ESP account. ;<)





Don't we all do that, at least now and then (although we may not call

it that)?



I've done this too, many times. I just balance the account by showing

a fake cash withdrawal or deposit and pretend I took it as pocket

money or deposited it from some pocket cash. This gets the account

back in balance and I really don't need to know where that cash came

from or where I spent it.



It's so hot here in central Oklahoma that ole Satan bailed out and

went back to Hell where it is much cooler. At least he won't be

bothering us for the time being. Gordon
Do you still assign it a category? That's the kicker for me because then unless I hide that category from showing up in my personal P/L report, itlooks like something significant (I.e if anyone taking over my affairs would see it, they'd wonder why it was hidden [was I hiding money] and where did it come from). It's not that I haven't done this in the past, but I was hoping there was some way of entering some kind of Remove-and-throw away proceeds as if they never happened.
In the grand scheme of life, this is minutia. I thought there might be atrick to soothe my OCD mind.
I use the category, "Pocket Money." I'm not trying to conceal this

from anyone but just getting my account balances to fall into place.

I'm usually dealing with small amounts...less than $100 at the most.

Gordon
I do the equivalent for my cash on hand value, but the amounts are very, very small, not like the $300 I'm dealing with now. Personally, I wouldn't want to mix the two kinds of adjustments because they are the result of different kinds of errors, albeit both carelessness. Sometimes in the investments accounts I lose patience with trying to find the "right" way to enter some cryptic stock transaction (recently inversions have royally confused things) and just give up, knowing that I will rely on my broker's records foranything relevant to taxes. One can only devote so much time to be OCD about this stuff.
 
J

John Pollard

"jo" wrote

Do you still assign it a category? That's the kicker for me because then
unless I hide that category from showing up in my personal P/L report, it
looks like something significant (I.e if anyone taking over my affairs would
see it, they'd wonder why it was hidden [was I hiding money] and where did
it come from). It's not that I haven't done this in the past, but I was
hoping there was some way of entering some kind of Remove-and-throw away
proceeds as if they never happened.

In the grand scheme of life, this is minutia. I thought there might be a
trick to soothe my OCD mind.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Some minds can't be soothed. :)

But you could categorize the transaction as a transfer back into the same
account.

That is: in the category field you would key the name of the account where
you are recording the transaction, enclosed in square brackets.
 
J

jo

"jo" wrote



Do you still assign it a category? That's the kicker for me because then

unless I hide that category from showing up in my personal P/L report, it

looks like something significant (I.e if anyone taking over my affairs would

see it, they'd wonder why it was hidden [was I hiding money] and where did

it come from). It's not that I haven't done this in the past, but I was

hoping there was some way of entering some kind of Remove-and-throw away

proceeds as if they never happened.



In the grand scheme of life, this is minutia. I thought there might be a

trick to soothe my OCD mind.

---------------------------------------------------------------------



Some minds can't be soothed. :)



But you could categorize the transaction as a transfer back into the same

account.



That is: in the category field you would key the name of the account where

you are recording the transaction, enclosed in square brackets.
How true :)

I've got one asset account where I've used that trick, but this account isn't even listed when I try to enter a transfer back to itself. When I type the account name, it treats it as if I'm trying to create a new account. Maybe this has something to do with it being linked to the brokerage account.Don't worry about it. My Ocd brain will survive.
 
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J

jo

"jo" wrote



Do you still assign it a category? That's the kicker for me because then

unless I hide that category from showing up in my personal P/L report, it

looks like something significant (I.e if anyone taking over my affairs would

see it, they'd wonder why it was hidden [was I hiding money] and where did

it come from). It's not that I haven't done this in the past, but I was

hoping there was some way of entering some kind of Remove-and-throw away

proceeds as if they never happened.



In the grand scheme of life, this is minutia. I thought there might be a

trick to soothe my OCD mind.

---------------------------------------------------------------------



Some minds can't be soothed. :)



But you could categorize the transaction as a transfer back into the same

account.



That is: in the category field you would key the name of the account where

you are recording the transaction, enclosed in square brackets.
John, you're a genius. My earlier post was wrong. Even though the accountdid not appear in the list of accounts for transferring, I *could* type itin, provided I typed it correctly, which I didn't. I am now zero'd out inboth the brokerage and linked cash account, and nothing shows up in my personal P/L report. It's be nice to know how things got out of sync, but I'm not that OCD!

Thanks so much for suggesting this! It wouldn't pass any accountant's keeneye without a "what the hell was she doing???" but after so many years of finding odd things that Quicken has allowed me to do which aren't standard bookkeeping practices, I'm sure not going to worry about it!
 
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A

Andrew

jo said:
"jo" wrote



Do you still assign it a category? That's the kicker for me because then

unless I hide that category from showing up in my personal P/L report, it

looks like something significant (I.e if anyone taking over my affairs would

see it, they'd wonder why it was hidden [was I hiding money] and where did

it come from). It's not that I haven't done this in the past, but I was

hoping there was some way of entering some kind of Remove-and-throw away

proceeds as if they never happened.



In the grand scheme of life, this is minutia. I thought there might be a

trick to soothe my OCD mind.

---------------------------------------------------------------------



Some minds can't be soothed. :)



But you could categorize the transaction as a transfer back into the same

account.



That is: in the category field you would key the name of the account where

you are recording the transaction, enclosed in square brackets.
John, you're a genius. My earlier post was wrong. Even though the account did not appear in the list of accounts for transferring, I *could* type it in, provided I typed it correctly, which I didn't. I am now zero'd out in both the brokerage and linked cash account, and nothing shows up in my personal P/L report. It's be nice to know how things got out of sync, but I'm not that OCD!

Thanks so much for suggesting this! It wouldn't pass any accountant's keen eye without a "what the hell was she doing???" but after so many years of finding odd things that Quicken has allowed me to do which aren't standard bookkeeping practices, I'm sure not going to worry about it!
If one is really worried about someone looking over your shoulder at
some point, you could also attach a flagged comment explaining what the
transaction is for. It will live next to the transaction in the
register for eternity. Sometimes I do that if I can't explain
everything in the (shorter) memo field.
 

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