Another Education Expense Question.


T

Tom Russ

The MBA thread for the nurse was interesting. I have a slightly
different, but perhaps related question about education expenses.

Here is what I hope is the complete set of facts.

1. Spouse is a registered nurse (RN), with B.A. in nursing.
2. Currently employed as a school nurse with a "temporary credential"
3. Required to complete a formal credential program at college within
five years in order to keep job.
4. Admission requirements to credential program require working as a
school nurse.

Question: Would the costs of this education qualify for deduction as
an unreimbursed employee business expense?

Are there any other possibilities?.

Lifetime learning credit? AGI limit 120k.

Hope credit? AGI limit 180k.
But this does not apply if one already has an undergraduate degree?
IIRC one must not have completed 2 or more years of college.
 
Ad

Advertisements

A

Arthur Kamlet

The MBA thread for the nurse was interesting. I have a slightly
different, but perhaps related question about education expenses.

Here is what I hope is the complete set of facts.

1. Spouse is a registered nurse (RN), with B.A. in nursing.
2. Currently employed as a school nurse with a "temporary credential"
3. Required to complete a formal credential program at college within
five years in order to keep job.
4. Admission requirements to credential program require working as a
school nurse.

Question: Would the costs of this education qualify for deduction as
an unreimbursed employee business expense?
That temporary credential must be further explored.


If the coursework is required by emoployer so she can keep her present job,
it seems to qualify. But if she would be reclassified into a different job
(not merely different job title, but a different job) then it would not
qualify. IMO.
Are there any other possibilities?.

Lifetime learning credit? AGI limit 120k.

LLC can be used for those with BA degrees even if Hope/AOC would not.
Hope credit? AGI limit 180k.
But this does not apply if one already has an undergraduate degree?
IIRC one must not have completed 2 or more years of college.


AOC is for four years, but not for advanced degrees. Credentials
post-BA degree seems to me to be disallowed> for AOC/Hope.



The Tuition and Fees deduction (up to 4000/2000 max deduction) might be
another choice.
 
T

Tom Russ

That temporary credential must be further explored.

If the coursework is required by emoployer so she can keep her present job,
it seems to qualify.  But if she would be reclassified into a different job
(not merely different job title, but a different job) then it would not
qualify.  IMO.
OK. Here is some further information.

o Current position is as a district school nurse
o A credential, either preliminary or "clear" is required for the
position
o Preliminary credential is good for 5 years, non-renewable
o If the credential expires, the employee would be terminated.
o There is no difference in duties based on preliminary vs. clear
credential
o Clear credential is also good for 5 years, but is renewable.

So I would take from your comments that since one merely retains the
current district school nurse position, the education costs would
qualify. The pay would increase upon completion of the clear
certificate, but the job title and duties would not change.

===== Even more details =======
* Requirements For The Preliminary Credential
1. Baccalaureate or higher degree
2. RN license

* Requirements for Professional Clear Credential
California college/university with accredited school nurse program
1. Hold a preliminary School Nurse Services Credential
2. Complete two years of successful experience as a school nurse
3. Complete an approved school nurse program
 
S

Stuart A. Bronstein

Tom Russ said:
OK. Here is some further information.

o Current position is as a district school nurse
o A credential, either preliminary or "clear" is required for
the position
o Preliminary credential is good for 5 years, non-renewable
o If the credential expires, the employee would be terminated.
o There is no difference in duties based on preliminary vs.
clear credential
o Clear credential is also good for 5 years, but is renewable.

So I would take from your comments that since one merely retains
the current district school nurse position, the education costs
would qualify. The pay would increase upon completion of the
clear certificate, but the job title and duties would not
change.
For me the problem is that the preliminary credential can't be
renewed. While she is actually doing the job with the preliminary,
when it expires she will not be able to do the job, so the
education would then qualify her for a different job than she is
technically qualified for now.

Or it's possible the courts would say that she's doing the job now,
she's qualified for it now, and the additional education will just
make her more valuable (and able to keep) her current job. Without
doing research it's hard to tell which way the courts might go.

If the temporary were renewable there's be no question in my mind
that her expenses would qualify. For me that's the sticking point.
 
Ad

Advertisements

T

Tom Russ

Question:  Would the costs of this education [for clear credential]
qualify for
deduction as an unreimbursed employee business expense?
o  Current position is as a district school nurse
o  A credential, either preliminary or "clear" is required for
the position
o  Preliminary credential is good for 5 years, non-renewable
o  If the credential expires, the employee would be terminated.
o  There is no difference in duties based on preliminary vs.
clear credential
o  Clear credential is also good for 5 years, but is renewable.
...
For me the problem is that the preliminary credential can't be
renewed.  While she is actually doing the job with the preliminary,
when it expires she will not be able to do the job, so the
education would then qualify her for a different job than she is
technically qualified for now.

Or it's possible the courts would say that she's doing the job now,
she's qualified for it now, and the additional education will just
make her more valuable (and able to keep) her current job.  Without
doing research it's hard to tell which way the courts might go.

If the temporary were renewable there's be no question in my mind
that her expenses would qualify.  For me that's the sticking point.
OK. I found another related item which seems to indicate that the
tax court views the expenses to go from a preliminary to a permanent
(clear) teaching certificate as tax deductible. It also applies to
California
emergency certificates which were held to be similar in form. So,
just
in case anyone else needs this for a starting point for research:

T.C. Summary Opinion 2009-71

http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/r9ay.sum.WPD.pdf

This particular opinion is not citable as precedent, but it seems that
the
issue is pretty much settled. In the above case, the Service appears
to concede the case for preliminary to permanent credential (for
teachers).

I would imagine that since the School Nurse credential system is
effectively
the same as the teaching credential that the expenses would be
deductible.

[Sorry for the long quote, but it's been awhile since the discussion.]
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads


Top