Anyone in this newsgroup give adavice about VAT and the VAT Act 1994?


D

Dave {ð¿ð}

I've got different answers each time I've been in contact with HM Revenue
and Customs (HMRC) :-(

Here is my dilemma/problem. I am disabled, my left arm is paralysed and in
order to drive a car legally I require it to be adapted with an infrared
hand control. Anyway, I've always thought that the supply and fitting of an
adaption to a car to enable a disabled person to drive was eligible for VAT
relief. To back this up Notice 701/59 Motor Vehicles for disabled people,
section 1.3 states that disabled people can get VAT relief on the cost of
adaptation to suit condition and section 11 also states that an adaption is
eligible for VAT relief. Further Notice 701/7 VAT reliefs for disabled
people describes what a disabled person is in
section 3.2.1 and in section 4.5 states that equipment and appliances
designed solely for use by disabled people is zero rated. Section 5.1 goes
on to state that the installation of these goods can also be zero rated.

I have been in contact with HMRC and I'm a little confused. I was told that
the supply of the adaption would be free of VAT, but as it was to be fitted
to a car it would not be VAT free, and so I would have to pay VAT on the
supply and fitting of the adaption. As I am not a wheelchair or stretcher
user, I am aware that the car is not free of VAT. But is seems daft that I
can buy the adaption free of VAT if it were to be used for anything other
than its intended purpose, but as it is to be fitted to a car in order for
it to be free of VAT I have to be a wheelchair or stretcher user. How daft
is that? I think that when they produced Notices 701/59 and 701/7 they got
a little mixed up as it does not seem to represent what is in Schedule 8,
Section 30, Group 12 of the Value Added Tax Act 1994.

Please also note that due to the nature of my disability I am not eligible
for any help towards the adaption I require. I have to pay for it out of my
own pocket and my last adaption cost me £1,755 to be supplied and fitted.

I hope you have not fallen asleep after reading the above :)

Dave
 
A

Alasdair

I hope you have not fallen asleep after reading the above :)
Interesting post.

I suggest you contact a company which specialises in adapting vehicles
for disabled people. They are more likely to be familiar with the
detailed aspects of the relevant legislation than the HMRCE call
centre people.

What they say may be correct as VAT is full of stupid anomalies. If I
buy a roast chicken at a chip shop, I pay VAT but if I buy the same
thing in a supermarket, I pay no VAT. Work that one out!
 
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P

Peter Saxton

Interesting post.

I suggest you contact a company which specialises in adapting vehicles
for disabled people. They are more likely to be familiar with the
detailed aspects of the relevant legislation than the HMRCE call
centre people.

What they say may be correct as VAT is full of stupid anomalies. If I
buy a roast chicken at a chip shop, I pay VAT but if I buy the same
thing in a supermarket, I pay no VAT. Work that one out!
In a chip shop the chicken is hot and meant to be eaten soon but in
the supermarket it is cold and most likely will be eaten later.
 
G

Graham Murray

In a chip shop the chicken is hot and meant to be eaten soon but in
the supermarket it is cold and most likely will be eaten later.
Not necessarily true. Some supermarkets have a rotisserie counter
which serves hot chicken in foil lined bags, which is obviously
intended to be consumed hot.
 
T

Tumbleweed

Graham Murray said:
Not necessarily true. Some supermarkets have a rotisserie counter
which serves hot chicken in foil lined bags, which is obviously
intended to be consumed hot.
Why 'obviously'? maybe the bags are there to protect the rest of your
shopping from the hot food, or at least could be used for that.
 
R

Ronald Raygun

Tumbleweed said:
Why 'obviously'? maybe the bags are there to protect the rest of your
shopping from the hot food, or at least could be used for that.
The reason it's obvious is because if the intention were not for
it to be eaten hot, then they wouldn't need the rotisserie counter,
they could just sell the chilled pre-roasted stuff (which they do
already anyway).
 
A

Alasdair

In a chip shop the chicken is hot and meant to be eaten soon but in
the supermarket it is cold and most likely will be eaten later.
Not so. In our local Sainsbury's, the chicken is piping hot and kept
so in a heated display cabinet.
 
J

Jonathan Bryce

Alasdair said:
Not so. In our local Sainsbury's, the chicken is piping hot and kept
so in a heated display cabinet.
In which case you have to pay VAT on it, if it is sold with the intention
that it is eaten while still hot.
 
P

Peter Saxton

Not so. In our local Sainsbury's, the chicken is piping hot and kept
so in a heated display cabinet.
What makes you think there's no VAT charged?
 
T

Tumbleweed

Ronald Raygun said:
The reason it's obvious is because if the intention were not for
it to be eaten hot, then they wouldn't need the rotisserie counter,
they could just sell the chilled pre-roasted stuff (which they do
already anyway).
but this way you get an option to have it hot, plus you know its freshly
cooked even if you'll have it cold in an hour.
 
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N

Nogood Boyo

What makes you think there's no VAT charged?
Quite. Cold take-away food is zero-rated but not hot take-away food.
I'd be surprised if the supermarket zero-rates hot freshly cooked
chickens.
 
N

Nogood Boyo

I've got different answers each time I've been in contact with HM Revenue
and Customs (HMRC) :-(

Here is my dilemma/problem. I am disabled, my left arm is paralysed and in
order to drive a car legally I require it to be adapted with an infrared
hand control. Anyway, I've always thought that the supply and fitting of an
adaption to a car to enable a disabled person to drive was eligible for VAT
relief. To back this up Notice 701/59 Motor Vehicles for disabled people,
section 1.3 states that disabled people can get VAT relief on the cost of
adaptation to suit condition and section 11 also states that an adaption is
eligible for VAT relief. Further Notice 701/7 VAT reliefs for disabled
people describes what a disabled person is in
section 3.2.1 and in section 4.5 states that equipment and appliances
designed solely for use by disabled people is zero rated. Section 5.1 goes
on to state that the installation of these goods can also be zero rated.

I have been in contact with HMRC and I'm a little confused. I was told that
the supply of the adaption would be free of VAT, but as it was to be fitted
to a car it would not be VAT free, and so I would have to pay VAT on the
supply and fitting of the adaption. As I am not a wheelchair or stretcher
user, I am aware that the car is not free of VAT. But is seems daft that I
can buy the adaption free of VAT if it were to be used for anything other
than its intended purpose, but as it is to be fitted to a car in order for
it to be free of VAT I have to be a wheelchair or stretcher user. How daft
is that? I think that when they produced Notices 701/59 and 701/7 they got
a little mixed up as it does not seem to represent what is in Schedule 8,
Section 30, Group 12 of the Value Added Tax Act 1994.

Please also note that due to the nature of my disability I am not eligible
for any help towards the adaption I require. I have to pay for it out of my
own pocket and my last adaption cost me £1,755 to be supplied and fitted.

I hope you have not fallen asleep after reading the above :)
You've obviously read the relevant HMRC guidance and the law. If the
guidance in 701/7 and 701/59 is not clear or inconsistent, the last
thing you should rely on is the verbal advice of someone in HMRC. You
should put to HMRC in writing the points which you have set out here and
request a written ruling. If the ruling suits you, go with it. If you
still think it's wrong, dispute the ruling and request a reconsideration
until you get an explanation / ruling which you can accept as being
consistent with the law. Although they try really hard, they don't
always get their guidance right. When they get it wrong, it's usually
because of an attempt to dumb down the draft written by the technical
expert.
 
M

Miss L. Toe

Tumbleweed said:
but this way you get an option to have it hot, plus you know its freshly
cooked even if you'll have it cold in an hour.
How do you know that it wasnt first cooked last week off-site in controlled
conditions then simply warmed up in this rotisserie ?
 
R

Ronald Raygun

Miss said:
How do you know that it wasnt first cooked last week off-site in
controlled conditions then simply warmed up in this rotisserie ?
You don't, but that's not important. The important thing is you
have to pay VAT for the dubious privilege.
 
R

Ronald Raygun

Nogood said:
You've obviously read the relevant HMRC guidance and the law. If the
guidance in 701/7 and 701/59 is not clear or inconsistent, the last
thing you should rely on is the verbal advice of someone in HMRC.
Speaking of being clear and consistent, would it not have been better
to have phrased the above as ".. is unclear or inconsistent .."?
Otherwise the "not" might be taken to apply both to "clear" and to
"inconsistent" instead of just to "clear".

:-]
 
M

Miss L. Toe

Ronald Raygun said:
You don't, but that's not important. The important thing is you
have to pay VAT for the dubious privilege.
Can you get a rebate if you put it next to the ice cream in your trolley and
it cools down by the time you get to the checkout (and melts the ice cream)
?
 
N

Nogood Boyo

Nogood said:
You've obviously read the relevant HMRC guidance and the law. If the
guidance in 701/7 and 701/59 is not clear or inconsistent, the last
thing you should rely on is the verbal advice of someone in HMRC.
Speaking of being clear and consistent, would it not have been better
to have phrased the above as ".. is unclear or inconsistent .."?
Otherwise the "not" might be taken to apply both to "clear" and to
"inconsistent" instead of just to "clear".

:-]
Yes dear...
 
T

Tumbleweed

Miss L. Toe said:
Can you get a rebate if you put it next to the ice cream in your trolley
and
it cools down by the time you get to the checkout (and melts the ice
cream)
?
I think there is a special Euro VAT refund form for that exact occurrence
 
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D

Dave {ð¿ð}

Dave {ð¿ð} said:
I have been in contact with HMRC and I'm a little confused. I was told
that the supply of the adaption would be free of VAT, but as it was to be
fitted to a car it would not be VAT free, and so I would have to pay VAT
on the supply and fitting of the adaption. As I am not a wheelchair or
stretcher user, I am aware that the car is not free of VAT. But is seems
daft that I can buy the adaption free of VAT if it were to be used for
anything other than its intended purpose, but as it is to be fitted to a
car in order for it to be free of VAT I have to be a wheelchair or
stretcher user. How daft is that?
Just to follow this up. I've now had a written reply from HMRC and they
state that the adaption is zero VAT rated :)

Dave
 
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