are cuts necessary?


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M

mjt95

Yes, cuts are necessary. Over-spending should never have happened in
the first place, but where you over-eat jam yesterday, you forego bread
today and go hungry tomorrow. It's that simple.

The Maastricht Treaty is, in this respect, a red herring. Obligated
government spending, however, which originates from other
implementations of European directives, remain the more insidious problem.
 
M

mick

Yes, cuts are necessary.  Over-spending should never have happened in
the first place, but where you over-eat jam yesterday, you forego bread
today and go hungry tomorrow.  It's that simple.

The Maastricht Treaty is, in this respect, a red herring.  Obligated
government spending, however, which originates from other
implementations of European directives, remain the more insidious problem..
The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so much.
 
M

Mark

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so much.
Or get the banks to repay their debts?
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M

mick

Or get the banks to repay their debts?
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(\__/)  M.
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(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there.  If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
There is £850b of toxic loans belonging to RBS insured by the
Government, this is more than the National Debt.
Yet we don't have any idea what the situation is with these toxic
loans.
 
D

Doug

mick said:
The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so much.
Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced, it will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave the UK in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

I'm sort of optimistic that other spending reductions will occur, so
that we don't over-tax ourselves and stop the recovery.
 
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G

Graham Murray

Doug said:
So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect,
Which should *not* have been temporary. VAT was increased to 17.5% to
fund the (short term) extra expenditure[1] involved in the move from
Community Charge (aka Poll Tax) to Council Tax.

[1] ISTR that it was to fund some sort of relief payments.
 
M

Mark

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced, it will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave the UK in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.
Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries remember that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

In addition increasing VAT and raising income tax rates could just be
a sleight of hand where overall tax rates are about the same. However
it might help the poor a little which I would be in favour of.
I'm sort of optimistic that other spending reductions will occur, so
that we don't over-tax ourselves and stop the recovery.
As long as the cuts are in the "right" places, which I doubt.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
 
T

tim....

Graham Murray said:
Doug said:
So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect,
Which should *not* have been temporary. VAT was increased to 17.5% to
fund the (short term) extra expenditure[1] involved in the move from
Community Charge (aka Poll Tax) to Council Tax.

[1] ISTR that it was to fund some sort of relief payments.
And kept on to fund the decreasing spiral down to 20% Income Tax.

tim
 
T

tim....

Mark said:
Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries remember that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.
But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours

tim
 
M

Mark

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours
And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco etc....

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
 
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T

tim....

Mark said:
And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco etc....
I think you will have difficulty finding an EU country that doesn't tax
petrol as heavily. Diesel perhaps, but even then the percentage difference
is small

tim
 
A

Andy Pandy

tim.... said:
But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours
But which fund decent state pensions, unemployment benefit etc, ie a
proper insurance not a tax. In the UK over the last few decades NI has
gone up while contributory benefits have gone down (in earnings
terms).
 
D

Doug

Graham said:
Doug said:
So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect,
Which should *not* have been temporary. VAT was increased to 17.5% to
fund the (short term) extra expenditure[1] involved in the move from
Community Charge (aka Poll Tax) to Council Tax.

[1] ISTR that it was to fund some sort of relief payments.
I'd forgotten that, thanks.

Actually, I'm more concerned about local taxes. My council tax has
increased around 8%/year it seems for years. I could look it up, I
guess, but each year it busts inflation by some margin.

One of the fascinating ways of doing business with the government is
that if you quote for a job, you are allowed to adjust it for inflation.
Try that with ordinary businesses, and they'd laugh in your face
(except for very large projects, of course).

Inflation proof supplies - the RPI should be a reflection on costs, not
an excuse for increasing costs - it distorts prices as soon as you do that.
 
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M

Mark

Graham said:
Doug said:
So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect,
Which should *not* have been temporary. VAT was increased to 17.5% to
fund the (short term) extra expenditure[1] involved in the move from
Community Charge (aka Poll Tax) to Council Tax.

[1] ISTR that it was to fund some sort of relief payments.
I'd forgotten that, thanks.

Actually, I'm more concerned about local taxes. My council tax has
increased around 8%/year it seems for years. I could look it up, I
guess, but each year it busts inflation by some margin.
It depends on what figure you take for inflation. The CPI is
completely unrealistic IMHO as it excludes significant expenditure
such as housing costs. The RPI is better but also underestimates the
real inflation rates for many of us.

You can calculate your own personal rate of inflation at the ONS web
site here: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pic/. Mine has always come
out a lot higher than the official figures.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
 
A

Andy Pandy

tim.... said:
Um, I'm surprised. I would have thought that the 30% drop in the
pound had equalised most of them, which IME were never 30% cheaper.
I think you've got that the wrong way round. If the pound drops 30%
then UK duties become cheaper measured in EUR.
 
T

tim....

Andy Pandy said:
I think you've got that the wrong way round. If the pound drops 30% then
UK duties become cheaper measured in EUR.
That's right.

I meant the other countries weren't 30% cheaper.

tim
 
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A

Andy Pandy

tim.... said:
That's right.

I meant the other countries weren't 30% cheaper.
Ah, I see what you mean. But our fuel duty has gone up over the last 4
years or so whereas most other countries haven't much by the looks of
it, some have even gone down. So the fall in the pound has been offset
by UK duties rising about 20% over the last 4 years.

If you look at France for example, for 2000-2008 their duty was higher
than ours based on the 2009 exchange rate they used, but is now lower.

You can see the underlying figures if you click on the graph.
 

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