Audit certificate for a small club with unqualified auditors


N

Nogood Boyo

Suggestions please for the wording of an audit certificate for a small
club (unincorporated associated) with unqualified auditors...

How about:

"We have examined the records presented to us and considered the
explanations given to us and in our opinion these accounts present a
true and complete picture of the finances of the association".
 
Ad

Advertisements

T

Troy Steadman

Suggestions please for the wording of an audit certificate for a small
club (unincorporated associated) with unqualified auditors...

How about:

"We have examined the records presented to us and considered the
explanations given to us and in our opinion these accounts present a
true and complete picture of the finances of the association".

If you are an "unqualified" auditor what possible value can your audit
certificate have? Hopefully you are at least QBE?


AUDIT DECLARATION

"We have been asked to examine the records of XYZ Association. We are
not qualified as auditors so cannot express formal audit opinion, nor
can any reliance, legal or otherwise, be placed upon our declaration.

In our capacity as laymen we have reviewed the records and carefully
considered the explanations given to us and have satisfied ourselves
that the accounts truly and fairly represent the finances of the
association".
 
N

Nogood Boyo

If you are an "unqualified" auditor what possible value can your audit
certificate have? Hopefully you are at least QBE?
Do I really need to explain that..? Members get the assurance that
the Treasurer's work has been examined by senior respected members of
the association and that they are happy. And they are even more happy
that it didn't cost £1,000.
 
T

Troy Steadman

Do I really need to explain that..? Members get the assurance that
the Treasurer's work has been examined by senior respected members of
the association and that they are happy. And they are even more happy
that it didn't cost £1,000.
Either your association needs an audit, in which case you need to
audit it properly using an auditor, or it doesn't, in which case there
is no audit report to write. Otherwise what you are saying is
meaningless:

"I hereby guarantee your new windows have been fitted correctly, but
wish to make it clear that I know nothing about fitting windows".

I think somwhere along the line someone has seen the phrase
"unqualified auditor's report", and have concluded that "unqualified"
meant the auditor.

An "unqualified auditor's report" is unreserved approval by a
qualified auditor.

A "qualified auditor's report" is also by a qualified auditor, but
raises doubts - "qualifications" - about certain issues.
 
R

Ronald Raygun

It gives the club members some reassurance that the treasurer has done
his job properly.
Do I really need to explain that..? Members get the assurance that
the Treasurer's work has been examined by senior respected members of
the association and that they are happy. And they are even more happy
that it didn't cost £1,000.
It is often better for the "audit" (in the everyday meaning of the word,
as opposed to the legal meaning) to be carried out by an outsider, but
if it's a member of the same association, it really ought to be someone
who isn't on the committee or related to or cohabiting with someone who is.

Such an "audit" is typically referred to as an Independent Examination and
the person who does it as an Independent Examiner.

"I have examined the above Receipts and Payments account and Statement of
Balances. To the best of my knowledge and belief, and in accordance with
the information and explanations given to me, they have been properly
prepared from the accounting records of the Association and are in
agreement with them.

Joe Bloggs, Independent Examiner"
[signed and dated]
 
N

Nogood Boyo

It is often better for the "audit" (in the everyday meaning of the word,
as opposed to the legal meaning) to be carried out by an outsider, but
if it's a member of the same association, it really ought to be someone
who isn't on the committee or related to or cohabiting with someone who is.

Such an "audit" is typically referred to as an Independent Examination and
the person who does it as an Independent Examiner.

"I have examined the above Receipts and Payments account and Statement of
Balances. To the best of my knowledge and belief, and in accordance with
the information and explanations given to me, they have been properly
prepared from the accounting records of the Association and are in
agreement with them.

Joe Bloggs, Independent Examiner"
[signed and dated]
Thanks. That's helpful.
 
Ad

Advertisements

N

Nogood Boyo

Either your association needs an audit, in which case you need to
audit it properly using an auditor, or it doesn't, in which case there
is no audit report to write.
It needs someone to look at the records and assure the members that
things look OK. It doesn't need to spend a fortune. Are you saying
that the word audit is for use only by qualified auditors?

Otherwise what you are saying is
meaningless:

"I hereby guarantee your new windows have been fitted correctly, but
wish to make it clear that I know nothing about fitting windows".
No-one's suggesting that the "audit" be carried out by someone who has
no knowledge of accounts. On the contrary. They know about accounts
and they know all about the organisation (which qualified auditors
often do not) but they aren't qualified. And no auditor's certificate
is a "guarantee" - it's an opinion. I thought you'd have known that.
I think somwhere along the line someone has seen the phrase
"unqualified auditor's report", and have concluded that "unqualified"
meant the auditor.
You assume wrongly. I've seen plenty of qualified accounts and know
exactly what the term means. And I've also seen plenty of proper
auditors squirm when I've pointed out to them that the accounts
they've certified without qualification are bollocks. So don't tell
me that reports by auditors are worthless unless the auditors are
qualified.

[...]
 
T

Troy Steadman

[...]






It is often better for the "audit" (in the everyday meaning of the word,
as opposed to the legal meaning) to be carried out by an outsider, but
if it's a member of the same association, it really ought to be someone
who isn't on the committee or related to or cohabiting with someone who is.
Such an "audit" is typically referred to as an Independent Examination and
the person who does it as an Independent Examiner.
"I have examined the above Receipts and Payments account and Statement of
Balances. To the best of my knowledge and belief, and in accordance with
the information and explanations given to me, they have been properly
prepared from the accounting records of the Association and are in
agreement with them.
Joe Bloggs, Independent Examiner"
[signed and dated]
Thanks. That's helpful.
Of course it's helpful because it doesn't include any reference to
"audit" or "auditor".

You are going to "examine" the schedules to see if they look right.
You are not going to do what an auditor would do:

1) Write for independant confirmation from the bank
2) Write for independant confirmation from debtors
3) Do extensive sampling
4) Make sure correct procedures have been followed
5) Assess and quantify the risks.

I fully accept that an audit is unlikely to turn up errors and fraud -
the audit report usually states that explicitly. But it does add a
level of confidence that may be better than yours, or worse than
yours, but is certainly *different* than yours.
 
N

Nogood Boyo

Of course it's helpful because it doesn't include any reference to
"audit" or "auditor".

You are going to "examine" the schedules to see if they look right.
Not I...
You are not going to do what an auditor would do:

1) Write for independant confirmation from the bank
of what? what the statements say?
2) Write for independant confirmation from debtors
no debtors (or creditors)
3) Do extensive sampling
if I know them, they'll probably look at every single transaction
(small club)
4) Make sure correct procedures have been followed
they'll certainly do that
5) Assess and quantify the risks.
and that...
I fully accept that an audit is unlikely to turn up errors and fraud -
the audit report usually states that explicitly. But it does add a
level of confidence that may be better than yours, or worse than
yours, but is certainly *different* than yours
In your first post you said "If you are an "unqualified" auditor what
possible value can your audit certificate have? Hopefully you are at
least QBE?" I think you've just answered that question - it will
probably be of more value than an that of a qualified auditor. Not
that I'll be one of those doing it...

I ask again: Are you saying that the word audit should only be used
by qualified auditors? Can you quote some authority for that?
 
T

Troy Steadman

Not I...



of what? what the statements say?


no debtors (or creditors)


if I know them, they'll probably look at every single transaction
(small club)


they'll certainly do that


and that...




In your first post you said "If you are an "unqualified" auditor what
possible value can your audit certificate have? Hopefully you are at
least QBE?" I think you've just answered that question - it will
probably be of more value than an that of a qualified auditor. Not
that I'll be one of those doing it...

I ask again: Are you saying that the word audit should only be used
by qualified auditors? Can you quote some authority for that?
Anyone can use the word "audit". Common sense would suggest to anyone
who had any that an "audit certificate" cannot be issued by someone
who is not qualified to issue one.
 
A

Alan Ferris

Anyone can use the word "audit". Common sense would suggest to anyone
who had any that an "audit certificate" cannot be issued by someone
who is not qualified to issue one.
What like accountant preparing accounts without qualifications.
 
Ad

Advertisements

T

Troy Steadman

What like accountant preparing accounts without qualifications.
I think Nogood has got in muddle with the terminology, and your line
is ambigous. So:

1) "Preparing accounts" is not something you need a qualification for.
An analogy: you might be a fantastic mechanic and can ensure - better
than anybody - that a car is safe. That doesn't give you the write to
right an MOT cert.

2) Accounts without qualifications are the accounts accountants with
qualifications issue every day :)
 
J

Jonathan Bryce

Nogood said:
I ask again: Are you saying that the word audit should only be used
by qualified auditors? Can you quote some authority for that?
Anyone can call themselves an accountant. However, to be an auditor, you
have to meet certain requirements, and be a member of a recognised
professional body.

The references can be found in the Companies Act, the Charities Act, the
Friendly Societies Act, the Solicitor Accounts Rules, and other places
which specify a requirement or possibility of an audit. Many of them refer
to the Companies Act requirements.
 
P

PeterSaxton

Anyone can call themselves an accountant. However, to be an auditor, you
have to meet certain requirements, and be a member of a recognised
professional body.

The references can be found in the Companies Act, the Charities Act, the
Friendly Societies Act, the Solicitor Accounts Rules, and other places
which specify a requirement or possibility of an audit. Many of them refer
to the Companies Act requirements.
What you seem to be missing is that the OP is talking about "a small
club (unincorporated associated)" and not a Company, Charity, Friendly
Society or Solicitor's Client Account.

If a hundred people in a chess club ask someone to audit their
accounts they can choose anybody they want.

Peter
 
N

Nogood Boyo

I think Nogood has got in muddle with the terminology
No I haven't..! God, you are infuriating... I plonked you a long
time ago so haven't seen your drivel for a while... I gave you a
second chance when I changed my ISP and software. Now, how do I plonk
you again with this setup...
 
Ad

Advertisements

A

Alan Ferris

Anyone can call themselves an accountant. However, to be an auditor, you
have to meet certain requirements, and be a member of a recognised
professional body.

The references can be found in the Companies Act, the Charities Act, the
Friendly Societies Act, the Solicitor Accounts Rules, and other places
which specify a requirement or possibility of an audit. Many of them refer
to the Companies Act requirements.
That may be for auditors, but the word audit is used for much more.
 
T

Troy Steadman

What you seem to be missing is that the OP is talking about "a small
club (unincorporated associated)" and not a Company, Charity, Friendly
Society or Solicitor's Client Account.

If a hundred people in a chess club ask someone to audit their
accounts they can choose anybody they want.

Peter
I don't think we are talking "Chess" here. Dominoes maybe...

They probably have a burnt out Wellington in their pond and I'm sure
if they are neither a Company, a Charity, a Friendly Society or a
Registered Airline they could ask anyone they want to give it a
Certificate of Air-Worthiness?
 
Ad

Advertisements

M

Martin

Troy Steadman said:
I don't think we are talking "Chess" here. Dominoes maybe...

They probably have a burnt out Wellington in their pond and I'm sure
if they are neither a Company, a Charity, a Friendly Society or a
Registered Airline they could ask anyone they want to give it a
Certificate of Air-Worthiness?
I think you'll find the CAA don't care - unless the wellie-throwing intrudes
into controlled air space... :)
 
Ad

Advertisements


Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top