Can't find a job, suggestions please.


N

No One

Hello all in the accounting newsgroup,

I've just graduated (Dec '04) with a BA in accounting and have yet to find a
job. I had one interview with a local CPA firm but I was not offered the
position. My ideal position would be an entry level Staff Accountant, but
all of these job alerts I get from Career Builder and Monster.com require a
Bachelors and some kind of experience, which I haven't got, because I went
back to college as an older student (late 20's) and worked my regular job
while going to college during the day.

The problem is also because I want to try and stay local (Lehigh Valley,
Allentown, PA) because I don't have the money to relocate, although it's
looking like I'm going to have to relocate eventually, to Plymouth Meeting,
King of Prussia, or outside Philadelphia because that's where the majority
of opportunities are.

Or, should I just head to accountemps and cambridge search and accept some
kind of "accounts receivable/payable" clerk type job? That's not really what
I want, it will not pay well, and I have aspirations of becoming a CPA. I'm
just not sure what to do. I wish I had a few thousand dollars so I could
move ASAP and be closer to where the action is.

Any suggestions? No insults please.
 
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J

Joe Canuck

No said:
Hello all in the accounting newsgroup,

I've just graduated (Dec '04) with a BA in accounting and have yet to find a
job. I had one interview with a local CPA firm but I was not offered the
position. My ideal position would be an entry level Staff Accountant, but
all of these job alerts I get from Career Builder and Monster.com require a
Bachelors and some kind of experience, which I haven't got, because I went
back to college as an older student (late 20's) and worked my regular job
while going to college during the day.

The problem is also because I want to try and stay local (Lehigh Valley,
Allentown, PA) because I don't have the money to relocate, although it's
looking like I'm going to have to relocate eventually, to Plymouth Meeting,
King of Prussia, or outside Philadelphia because that's where the majority
of opportunities are.

Or, should I just head to accountemps and cambridge search and accept some
kind of "accounts receivable/payable" clerk type job? That's not really what
I want, it will not pay well, and I have aspirations of becoming a CPA. I'm
just not sure what to do. I wish I had a few thousand dollars so I could
move ASAP and be closer to where the action is.

Any suggestions? No insults please.
The average job search takes 6 months, so don't get frustrated just yet.
 
P

Paul A Thomas

No One said:
Hello all in the accounting newsgroup,

I've just graduated (Dec '04) with a BA in accounting and have yet to find
a
job. I had one interview with a local CPA firm but I was not offered the
position. My ideal position would be an entry level Staff Accountant, but
all of these job alerts I get from Career Builder and Monster.com require
a
Bachelors and some kind of experience, which I haven't got, because I went
back to college as an older student (late 20's) and worked my regular job
while going to college during the day.

The problem is also because I want to try and stay local (Lehigh Valley,
Allentown, PA) because I don't have the money to relocate, although it's
looking like I'm going to have to relocate eventually, to Plymouth
Meeting,
King of Prussia, or outside Philadelphia because that's where the majority
of opportunities are.

Or, should I just head to accountemps

A "temp" job while you are looking for a full-time position helps the
budget, as well as adds to your experience.

Don't know when you started looking for an accounting job, but most CPA
firms did their tax season hiring in like October/November.
 
A

Arnold

Dear Anonymous,

Most of the jobs available are not going to be advertised or listed on
the Internet. Most of them will be filled by individuals who found it
because of who they knew. The way to address this market is called
"networking." You will be working to build a net. It sounds more
complex than it is.

Here's what to do. 1) Sit down and write a list of all the people you
know that you can talk to about your situation. 2) Get all of their
phone numbers and call every one of them. 3) DON'T ask them for a job!
4) DO tell them that you are a new graduate and that your are looking
for ideas, then ask if they have any ideas where you might look. 5) If
they tell you a place to call, find out if they know the name of a
person to talk to there. 6) Ask if you can use their name when you
call. 7) When you make that call, ask for the person and tell them your
friend, Bill or Nancy or whomever, suggested you call them. 8) DON'T
ask them for a job either. 9) DO tell them what you are doing and ask
if they have any ideas where you might look. 10) Repeat this cycle as
long as it takes.

"But!" You counter, "If I don't ask for a job, how will I ever get one?"
Here's the reality. Everyone you talk to is a prospective employer or
knows someone who is. By taking the pressure off that person about
having to explain to you why they don't have a job or why they aren't
going to hire you, they can literally interview you for their own
opening or screen you for the friend they are thinking of referring you
to-without any pressure. This does something for you too. You will not
be rejected by anyone. You aren't asking them if they "want" you. You
are asking them for a statement of fact. Either they do or they don't
know where you might look. You are not facing the risk of being
rejected with each and every call. Our personal greatest fear is being
rejected. It's the hard part of looking for work, so don't do it.

As you're looking, don't line off old aunt Mary. She's a lot smarter
than you know. She knows a lot of other old aunt Marys too. One of
them might have bragged to her about her niece or nephew that just took
over a company and she knows they are looking for good people. Your
aunt Mary knows you would make a fine employee for them, all you need to
do is have her introduction. Be open minded.

As an employer, I get calls all the time asking if I have any openings.
I always say "No." Sometimes, if the person sounds like they might be
interesting, a potential candidate for a position that I may have or be
thinking about, I ask for their "qualifications" under the pretense that
I need to know more about them before I have a clue what to suggest they
do. On the other hand, I do the same thing when I am prequalifying them
for a position or a company that I might know of. What does that
suggest? You need to be able to quickly describe what your talents are
and what you want to do with them. This is not a verbal resume, but it
might be what you would right in the "summary of qualifications" that
should head your resume.

That's about all I can offer you without being your coach. Get busy and
try this for a few days, maybe even a few weeks. Don't be satisfied or
discouraged that the "average job search is 6 months." Right now, your
job is networking. Work at it. You'll find that someone you know,
knows something you don't. That's why you have to talk to everyone; you
don't know which someone that is.

Good luck,

Arnold
 
J

John

Arnold said:
Dear Anonymous,

Most of the jobs available are not going to be advertised or listed on
the Internet. Most of them will be filled by individuals who found it
because of who they knew. The way to address this market is called
"networking." You will be working to build a net. It sounds more
complex than it is.

Here's what to do. 1) Sit down and write a list of all the people you
know that you can talk to about your situation. 2) Get all of their
phone numbers and call every one of them. 3) DON'T ask them for a job!
4) DO tell them that you are a new graduate and that your are looking
for ideas, then ask if they have any ideas where you might look. 5) If
they tell you a place to call, find out if they know the name of a
person to talk to there. 6) Ask if you can use their name when you
call. 7) When you make that call, ask for the person and tell them your
friend, Bill or Nancy or whomever, suggested you call them. 8) DON'T
ask them for a job either. 9) DO tell them what you are doing and ask
if they have any ideas where you might look. 10) Repeat this cycle as
long as it takes.

"But!" You counter, "If I don't ask for a job, how will I ever get one?"
Here's the reality. Everyone you talk to is a prospective employer or
knows someone who is. By taking the pressure off that person about
having to explain to you why they don't have a job or why they aren't
going to hire you, they can literally interview you for their own
opening or screen you for the friend they are thinking of referring you
to-without any pressure. This does something for you too. You will not
be rejected by anyone. You aren't asking them if they "want" you. You
are asking them for a statement of fact. Either they do or they don't
know where you might look. You are not facing the risk of being
rejected with each and every call. Our personal greatest fear is being
rejected. It's the hard part of looking for work, so don't do it.

As you're looking, don't line off old aunt Mary. She's a lot smarter
than you know. She knows a lot of other old aunt Marys too. One of
them might have bragged to her about her niece or nephew that just took
over a company and she knows they are looking for good people. Your
aunt Mary knows you would make a fine employee for them, all you need to
do is have her introduction. Be open minded.

As an employer, I get calls all the time asking if I have any openings.
I always say "No." Sometimes, if the person sounds like they might be
interesting, a potential candidate for a position that I may have or be
thinking about, I ask for their "qualifications" under the pretense that
I need to know more about them before I have a clue what to suggest they
do. On the other hand, I do the same thing when I am prequalifying them
for a position or a company that I might know of. What does that
suggest? You need to be able to quickly describe what your talents are
and what you want to do with them. This is not a verbal resume, but it
might be what you would right in the "summary of qualifications" that
should head your resume.

That's about all I can offer you without being your coach. Get busy and
try this for a few days, maybe even a few weeks. Don't be satisfied or
discouraged that the "average job search is 6 months." Right now, your
job is networking. Work at it. You'll find that someone you know,
knows something you don't. That's why you have to talk to everyone; you
don't know which someone that is.

Good luck,

Arnold
good advice and I'll add that it also helps to circulate your resume to
prospective companies before a job opening "opens", one technique is to call
the company's main number and ask who is the head of human resources or
personnel and then send a resume.
 
D

Duane Bozarth

John wrote:
....
good advice and I'll add ...
And I'll add you <are> using the resources of your educational
institution's placement center, right?

And I'll re-emphasize, forget the 'net--it's highly unlikely you'll find
what you're looking for there!

I'll also second the notion of taking a temp or other related job at
least temporarily to get some experience. Only thing that can possibly
hurt is the time taken away from the other search which should be
treated as a full-time job--get up in the morning, dress as if you were
going to work (you are) and spend the day <proactively> advancing the
search.
 
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R

Ron Todd

Hello all in the accounting newsgroup,

I've just graduated (Dec '04) with a BA in accounting and have yet to find a
job.
Two unanswered questions. (1) I thought the accounting degree has
always been a B.S. (2) I thought all the states (other than
California's two track system) had started requireling an M.S. for the
CPA certificate.

Now to your problem.

If you didn't get hired out of school placement, it is very unlikely
that you are going to get an accounting job. Accounting is now a
bloated field with an excess of really attractive newbies from elite
schools. The guidance don't tell you this, but it has been bloated for
a couple of decades in the states. As you noted, about the only
shortage is in the mid management staff and above level.

A workable solution.

If you graduated from a good school, paid attention, and really love
accounting the best bet would be to start your own Bookkeeping and Tax
service business. Once you get a close to $100,000 in gross fees you
can sell the practice to a desperate CPA with the proviso that you be
hired on for the necessary qualifying audit experience.
 
J

JFisher282

RELOCATE! cmon' down!

and we're waiting here in Allentown....

The University of Houston has placed ALL their accounting grads for the last 5
years and stop taking job orders in mid year.

I was in your spot years ago and caught the first muletrain out of Detroit with
degree in hand and never looked back.

Go on monster.com and put in Houston instead of Atown. 4th largest city in
America and today its 55' outside.
 
A

Amy Gray

RELOCATE! cmon' down!

and we're waiting here in Allentown....

The University of Houston has placed ALL their accounting grads for the last 5
years and stop taking job orders in mid year.

I was in your spot years ago and caught the first muletrain out of Detroit with
degree in hand and never looked back.

Go on monster.com and put in Houston instead of Atown. 4th largest city in
America and today its 55' outside.
Just be very careful what information you put in Monster.com.

When identity thieves get their information, their number one source
for information? Job sites like Monster.com.
 
J

Joe Canuck

Arnold said:
Dear Anonymous,

Most of the jobs available are not going to be advertised or listed on
the Internet. Most of them will be filled by individuals who found it
because of who they knew. The way to address this market is called
"networking." You will be working to build a net. It sounds more
complex than it is.

Here's what to do. 1) Sit down and write a list of all the people you
know that you can talk to about your situation. 2) Get all of their
phone numbers and call every one of them. 3) DON'T ask them for a job!
4) DO tell them that you are a new graduate and that your are looking
for ideas, then ask if they have any ideas where you might look. 5) If
they tell you a place to call, find out if they know the name of a
person to talk to there. 6) Ask if you can use their name when you
call. 7) When you make that call, ask for the person and tell them your
friend, Bill or Nancy or whomever, suggested you call them. 8) DON'T
ask them for a job either. 9) DO tell them what you are doing and ask
if they have any ideas where you might look. 10) Repeat this cycle as
long as it takes.

"But!" You counter, "If I don't ask for a job, how will I ever get one?"
Here's the reality. Everyone you talk to is a prospective employer or
knows someone who is. By taking the pressure off that person about
having to explain to you why they don't have a job or why they aren't
going to hire you, they can literally interview you for their own
opening or screen you for the friend they are thinking of referring you
to-without any pressure. This does something for you too. You will not
be rejected by anyone. You aren't asking them if they "want" you. You
are asking them for a statement of fact. Either they do or they don't
know where you might look. You are not facing the risk of being
rejected with each and every call. Our personal greatest fear is being
rejected. It's the hard part of looking for work, so don't do it.

As you're looking, don't line off old aunt Mary. She's a lot smarter
than you know. She knows a lot of other old aunt Marys too. One of
them might have bragged to her about her niece or nephew that just took
over a company and she knows they are looking for good people. Your
aunt Mary knows you would make a fine employee for them, all you need to
do is have her introduction. Be open minded.

As an employer, I get calls all the time asking if I have any openings.
I always say "No." Sometimes, if the person sounds like they might be
interesting, a potential candidate for a position that I may have or be
thinking about, I ask for their "qualifications" under the pretense that
I need to know more about them before I have a clue what to suggest they
do. On the other hand, I do the same thing when I am prequalifying them
for a position or a company that I might know of. What does that
suggest? You need to be able to quickly describe what your talents are
and what you want to do with them. This is not a verbal resume, but it
might be what you would right in the "summary of qualifications" that
should head your resume.

That's about all I can offer you without being your coach. Get busy and
try this for a few days, maybe even a few weeks. Don't be satisfied or
discouraged that the "average job search is 6 months." Right now, your
job is networking. Work at it. You'll find that someone you know,
knows something you don't. That's why you have to talk to everyone; you
don't know which someone that is.

Good luck,

Arnold
Good advice... but remember to not dismiss the other methods of finding
a job. I have obtained employment through networking, newspaper ads and
the Internet.

Keep your eyes and ears open. If you see a news report on tv/radio or
wherever about a company expanding or a new company opening... obtain
some information about them and pursue it as a potential opportunity for
you.
 
M

Mike (remove XX's to reply)

Ron said:
Two unanswered questions. (1) I thought the accounting degree has
always been a B.S.
Nope. All you need is 24 semester credit hours of accounting and
business law courses (maximum 2). This is defined by federal government
hiring standards.
I thought all the states (other than
California's two track system) had started requireling an M.S. for the
CPA certificate.
Nope again. Most of the states require 150 hours of general college
education. The extra hours (above the usual 120 for a degree) can be in
basket weaving, as long as you have your minimum required credit hours
in accounting (varies by state).
Now to your problem.

If you didn't get hired out of school placement, it is very unlikely
that you are going to get an accounting job. Accounting is now a
bloated field with an excess of really attractive newbies from elite
schools. The guidance don't tell you this, but it has been bloated for
a couple of decades in the states. As you noted, about the only
shortage is in the mid management staff and above level.
Really? According to CNN and the Beaurau of Labor Statistics,
accounting is the hottest hiring major out of college. Accountants are
in serious demand due to the recent corporate scandals and the resulting
legislation that has come from it.

Thanks,

Mike
 
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M

Mike (remove XX's to reply)

JFisher282 said:
RELOCATE! cmon' down!

and we're waiting here in Allentown....

The University of Houston has placed ALL their accounting grads for the last 5
years and stop taking job orders in mid year.

I was in your spot years ago and caught the first muletrain out of Detroit with
degree in hand and never looked back.

Go on monster.com and put in Houston instead of Atown. 4th largest city in
America and today its 55' outside.
And in July it's 105 with 95% humidity... yuck!!! ;-)

Thanks,

Mike
 
D

Duane Bozarth

:
....
Why do you think I'm getting INTO accounting?
....

If you read a.a for a while or go back through google archives you'll
see Mr. Todd is a continual naysayer of prospects...
 
R

Ron Todd

Nope. All you need is 24 semester credit hours of accounting and
business law courses (maximum 2). This is defined by federal government
hiring standards.
I used to work for them. They didn't require a degree in accounting
to be an accountant, most people who hire in industry and the rest of
the private sector do. I take it you are not disagreeing with the
statement "I thought the accounting degree has always been a B.S." but
merely expanding it to one can work as an accountant without a degree
in accounting.

Nope again. Most of the states require 150 hours of general college
education. The extra hours (above the usual 120 for a degree) can be in
basket weaving, as long as you have your minimum required credit hours
in accounting (varies by state).
Ok, I am not surprised. It kind of kills the whole concept of
increasing the entry requirement of 150 hours to the certification
though. It makes it look like the states who did that were only
adding the extra year as a bar to entry in the profession.
Really? According to CNN and the Beaurau of Labor Statistics,
accounting is the hottest hiring major out of college. Accountants are
in serious demand due to the recent corporate scandals and the resulting
legislation that has come from it.
The folks there already have jobs. (BTW the folks who went into
Journalism * Comm. Arts. make up most of the CNN reporters. Anyone
who when to a college offering those degrees knows what kind of people
they are :) ) Last month when I looked at the Occupational Outlook
Handbook it still said accounting was flat. Knowing how the Fed
works, I always look for confirmation when the BLS says something. I
can not find, nor has anyone given me, unimpeachable corroboration.

BTW, the demand for SOX people is not for people right out of college.
Everyone I've run across has been for "3yrs/B5/SOX experience."
 
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R

Ron Todd

RELOCATE! cmon' down!

and we're waiting here in Allentown....

The University of Houston has placed ALL their accounting grads for the last 5
years and stop taking job orders in mid year.

I was in your spot years ago and caught the first muletrain out of Detroit with
degree in hand and never looked back.

Go on monster.com and put in Houston instead of Atown. 4th largest city in
America and today its 55' outside.
Really.

The first "fact based" comment I've heard in near a decade.

Around here, California Certification and an M.B.A., I can't get an
interview.

I will look into it.
 
R

Ron Todd

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:40:40 -0500, Amy Gray


.....
When identity thieves get their information, their number one source
for information? Job sites like Monster.com.
I agree with that. Tried it once, the junk mail immediately escalated
and the only call I got was a fellow putting together a cold call crew
for life insurance company.

OTOH, Monster is good to sniff around to see what people are looking
for. Only trick is you have to throw out all the adds from the
placement outfits.
 
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R

Ron Todd

And in July it's 105 with 95% humidity... yuck!!! ;-)

Thanks,

Mike

Most people can adapt, after you get used to it 105 is rather pleasant
in the summer. After spending a year and a half on Guam I firmly
believe that almost anyone can adapt to the humidity.
 

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