certification, grad school or ???

Discussion in 'Accounting' started by Chinvat, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. Chinvat

    Joe Canuck Guest

    wrote:
    > You think an MBA with a concentration in accounting might be the
    > answer? An MBA degree is a joke! Probably the most overrated business
    > degree outside of a degree in management.
    >
    > You will find that your MBA will be you "less" employable, not more.
    >


    Okay, what degree do *you* have and why did you pursue it?

    >
    >
    > Chinvat wrote:
    >
    >>I'm leaning towards grad school, a MBA with a concentration in
    >>Accounting. I haven't seen many schools which offer a MS in Accounting.
    >>Even though a MBA is supposed to be for managers, when you look at the
    >>curriculum of most schools, they don't contain many management courses.
    >>They usually offer a year of general business and a year of
    >>concentration courses.
    >>
    >>I figure, with a year of advanced accounting under my belt. I won't
    >>even have to study for the CPA exam. The MBA should prove that I know a
    >>lot about accounting. Plus, I might be able to attribute some of my
    >>unemployment to time in spent in school and just say I took extra
    >>classes or something. Also, I'm making so little money now, that I
    >>might be able to get more money from financial aid than I can earn now.
    >>
    >>I don't really think I have the self-discipline to study for the CPA
    >>exam. I've tried to study for it, but haven't been able to push myself.
    >>I thought I lost my ability to study, until I started taking a tax
    >>course and have been doing fine. It is a lot easier to study x amount
    >>of material when you have a test on Friday, than study x^9 for a test 6
    >>months from now. How long does it take most people to study for the
    >>exam anyway?
    >>
    >>With all that said, I'm still hoping to find a faster and easier way.
    >>
    >>As far as there being something wrong with me and that being the root
    >>of my problems, this may be true. I often hear in interviews that I
    >>have the right skill set, or that my skills are a perfect match for the
    >>position but I don't quite fit in, or something similar. I blame HR
    >>which I believe is a sham based on pseudo-science and I doubt there is
    >>any credible evidence which links personality to job performance
    >>anyway. Of course, this doesn't help me much, as I still have to get
    >>those people on my side.

    >
    >
     
    Joe Canuck, Nov 9, 2005
    #21
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  2. Chinvat

    Ron Todd Guest

    On 9 Nov 2005 13:31:59 -0800, wrote:

    >You think an MBA with a concentration in accounting might be the
    >answer? An MBA degree is a joke! Probably the most overrated business
    >degree outside of a degree in management.
    >
    >You will find that your MBA will be you "less" employable, not more.
    >


    Yes, it does have that effect these days. I find many managers are
    hiring down to protect their own positions. Probably one of the
    reasons we are having so many bankruptcies.
     
    Ron Todd, Nov 10, 2005
    #22
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  3. Chinvat

    Ron Todd Guest

    On 9 Nov 2005 13:39:18 -0800, "mrs. eliza humperdink"
    <> wrote:

    >prove it, buddy. the *average* MBA from harvard or stanford B school
    >earnings $250,000/yr
    >4 years after the MBA degree. you can view these stats at the school
    >web site.



    Yes, at the dozen or so top tier B schools, thanks to the hiring
    nepotism, you do see this. Once you get out of the top tier it
    declines rapidly until you start getting negative net present values
    for the cost of an MBA. If you graduate from the Harvard or Stanford
    B school you are not going to be interviewing for a job a Pop's
    Trucks.
     
    Ron Todd, Nov 10, 2005
    #23
  4. Chinvat

    John Guest

    "Ron Todd" <
    On 9 Nov 2005 13:39:18 -0800, "mrs. eliza humperdink"

    <> wrote:
    >prove it, buddy. the *average* MBA from harvard or stanford B school
    >earnings $250,000/yr
    >4 years after the MBA degree. you can view these stats at the school
    >web site.


    >Yes, at the dozen or so top tier B schools, thanks to the hiring

    nepotism, you do see this. Once you get out of the top tier it
    declines rapidly until you start getting negative net present values
    for the cost of an MBA. If you graduate from the Harvard or Stanford
    B school you are not going to be interviewing for a job a Pop's
    Trucks.

    also the "stats" are submitted by alumni groups and consequently there
    are many not counted
     
    John, Nov 10, 2005
    #24
  5. bottom line: this is the land of opportunity. if you have to certify
    to get yourself a "job", you are not taking full advantage of the
    myriad of great opportunties your country has to offer. how about
    starting a business instead of begging for a job?
     
    mrs. eliza humperdink, Nov 10, 2005
    #25
  6. Chinvat

    Chinvat Guest

    mrs. eliza humperdink wrote:
    > bottom line: this is the land of opportunity. if you have to certify
    > to get yourself a "job", you are not taking full advantage of the
    > myriad of great opportunties your country has to offer. how about
    > starting a business instead of begging for a job?


    I don't have the capital or the credit to start a business. As far as
    graduate school, I'm certainly not looking at Harvard or Stanford, more
    like a California State University or small private university.
     
    Chinvat, Nov 10, 2005
    #26
  7. Chinvat

    Joe Canuck Guest

    mrs. eliza humperdink wrote:

    > bottom line: this is the land of opportunity. if you have to certify
    > to get yourself a "job", you are not taking full advantage of the
    > myriad of great opportunties your country has to offer. how about
    > starting a business instead of begging for a job?
    >


    In a sense I agree in so much that certification often only proves that
    someone was able to learn the material and pass the exam to obtain
    certification. The ability to get work accomplished in the real world is
    entirely another matter.

    Personally, I would hire someone with real world experience rather than
    someone only waving certifications around.
     
    Joe Canuck, Nov 10, 2005
    #27
  8. Chinvat

    Ron Todd Guest

    On 9 Nov 2005 23:21:50 -0800, "Chinvat" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >mrs. eliza humperdink wrote:
    >> bottom line: this is the land of opportunity. if you have to certify
    >> to get yourself a "job", you are not taking full advantage of the
    >> myriad of great opportunties your country has to offer. how about
    >> starting a business instead of begging for a job?

    >
    >I don't have the capital or the credit to start a business. As far as
    >graduate school, I'm certainly not looking at Harvard or Stanford, more
    >like a California State University or small private university.


    As a CSU alumni I can attest that most of them are not that great.
    They never cultivated their alumni to generate placements. Jerry
    Brown's renaming the State Colleges to Universities reminds me of that
    line in the musical 1776 about an Ox and a Bull. Any how, being
    serious about it, UCLA and Berkeley have a much greater big buck
    hiring potential. If your looking at a great private for placements
    look at U.S.C.

    On the capital requirements to start a business. Mike Dell started
    his little enterprise out of his dorm room. Gates started his on
    someone else's computer. Amos of Famous Amos started his out of his
    kitchen. Lack of capital is a much over rate impediment, unless you
    want to do one of the classic B school things like Fred's Federal
    Express (which the B School prof said would work :) )

    Best of luck, the world needs one heck of a lot more entrepreneurs
    and a lot fewer wage slaves.
     
    Ron Todd, Nov 11, 2005
    #28
  9. Chinvat

    Chinvat Guest

    Ron Todd wrote:

    Any how, being
    > serious about it, UCLA and Berkeley have a much greater big buck
    > hiring potential. If your looking at a great private for placements
    > look at U.S.C.


    Those schools have experience requirements for admittance. Though CSUs
    do nothing as far as placements, the quality of education is about the
    same as the Berkeley and UCLA. Some employers must realize this.

    > On the capital requirements to start a business. Mike Dell started
    > his little enterprise out of his dorm room. Gates started his on
    > someone else's computer. Amos of Famous Amos started his out of his
    > kitchen. Lack of capital is a much over rate impediment, unless you
    > want to do one of the classic B school things like Fred's Federal
    > Express (which the B School prof said would work :) )


    I don't know much about Mike Dell, but Bill Gates borrowed $40,000 from
    his father and bought DOS from some guy. He then gave it away, so
    people stopped buying other operating systems, since they already had a
    free one. Once he crushed the competition, he started charging for it.

    As far as, Famous Amos, what he did was probably illegal. It is against
    the law to make food for sale in your home, as there are strict health
    codes on commercial kitchens. If you want to rent a commercial kitchen,
    you will pay plenty.

    Success stories like the ones you mentioned are rare. People love to
    hear how they can make millions, but in reality it is very unlikely.
    With a population of close to 300 million, there are bound to be some
    success stories. Looking to those people for inspiration is like
    looking at lottery winners and concluding that the lottery is a great
    way to make money.

    In reality, Americans are working longer hours for less money. Wages in
    the bottom three quintiles has decreased steadily since the 1960s, with
    the fourth quintile holding steady. White collar unemployment has
    surpassed blue collar unemployment. Employer provided benefits are
    decreasing, as well as, mortality rates and most quality of life
    measures. If there was a way out of this downward spiral, I'm sure most
    Americans would jump at the chance.

    Something close to 90% of all small businesses fail during the first
    two years. Usually they lack the cash to meet their obligations.

    You won't hear any of this stuff from right-wing business school
    professors and you definitely won't hear it in the mainstream news. But
    hey, why not just crank up the Fox News, so you can hear how great
    America is and how everyone is doing so well. You're probably better
    off. I unfortunately must make a living in the real world.
     
    Chinvat, Nov 11, 2005
    #29
  10. In article <>,
    Ron Todd <> wrote:
    >On 9 Nov 2005 23:21:50 -0800, "Chinvat" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>mrs. eliza humperdink wrote:
    >>> bottom line: this is the land of opportunity. if you have to certify
    >>> to get yourself a "job", you are not taking full advantage of the
    >>> myriad of great opportunties your country has to offer. how about
    >>> starting a business instead of begging for a job?

    >>
    >>I don't have the capital or the credit to start a business. As far as
    >>graduate school, I'm certainly not looking at Harvard or Stanford, more
    >>like a California State University or small private university.

    >
    >As a CSU alumni I can attest that most of them are not that great.
    >They never cultivated their alumni to generate placements. Jerry
    >Brown's renaming the State Colleges to Universities reminds me of that
    >line in the musical 1776 about an Ox and a Bull. Any how, being
    >serious about it, UCLA and Berkeley have a much greater big buck
    >hiring potential. If your looking at a great private for placements
    >look at U.S.C.
    >
    >On the capital requirements to start a business. Mike Dell started
    >his little enterprise out of his dorm room. Gates started his on
    >someone else's computer. Amos of Famous Amos started his out of his
    >kitchen. Lack of capital is a much over rate impediment, unless you
    >want to do one of the classic B school things like Fred's Federal
    >Express (which the B School prof said would work :) )


    From what I've read, most technology business fail because of a lack of
    capital, and inaccurately estimating the amount of capital needed, and not
    because it was a bad idea. You can pull out the odd examples of a Woz and
    Jobs doing business in a garage funded by the proceeds on the sale of a
    calculator and a VW Bus, but that misses similar ventures that didn't go
    billion. I'm not sure what makes the Dells and Jobses different, but part
    of it has to do with being among the first to develop an idea whose time
    has come. How many mass-market PCs were there before the Apple? None,
    that's how many. But the technology was all there.

    --
    "What are the possibilities of small but movable machines? They may or
    may not be useful, but they surely would be fun to make."
    -- Richard P. Feynman, 1959
     
    Gregory L. Hansen, Nov 11, 2005
    #30
  11. Chinvat

    Ron Todd Guest

    On 11 Nov 2005 00:12:17 -0800, "Chinvat" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >Ron Todd wrote:
    >
    > Any how, being
    >> serious about it, UCLA and Berkeley have a much greater big buck
    >> hiring potential. If your looking at a great private for placements
    >> look at U.S.C.

    >
    >Those schools have experience requirements for admittance. Though CSUs
    >do nothing as far as placements, the quality of education is about the
    >same as the Berkeley and UCLA.


    Yes it is. The actual quality of the education is pretty much the
    same from any two schools. That isn't what they claim or the folk
    myth, but it is. The central relevant fact is that Harvard recruits
    from the top 1% of available students and the others get the
    leftovers.

    > Some employers must realize this.


    No they don't. The employment process is nowhere near as rational as
    the "experts" would have you believe. Read "What Color is My
    Parachute," by Boles. Employment groups tend to go with their alma
    maters and what's trendy. More CEOs are Harvard, etc. graduates, so
    that is where their companies recruit.

    >
    >> On the capital requirements to start a business. Mike Dell started
    >> his little enterprise out of his dorm room. Gates started his on
    >> someone else's computer. Amos of Famous Amos started his out of his
    >> kitchen. Lack of capital is a much over rate impediment, unless you
    >> want to do one of the classic B school things like Fred's Federal
    >> Express (which the B School prof said would work :) )

    >
    >I don't know much about Mike Dell, but Bill Gates borrowed $40,000 from
    >his father and bought DOS from some guy.


    That was later. Microsoft Basic was the successful start up project.
    The actual startup project was a traffic controller thing that he and
    his partner sold never delivered.


    >He then gave it away, so
    >people stopped buying other operating systems, since they already had a
    >free one. Once he crushed the competition, he started charging for it.


    You really ought to read how the early Microsoft business model
    worked. "Give away" and Microsoft are not things you can use in the
    same paragraph.


    >
    >As far as, Famous Amos, what he did was probably illegal. It is against
    >the law to make food for sale in your home, as there are strict health
    >codes on commercial kitchens. If you want to rent a commercial kitchen,
    >you will pay plenty.


    You have to read the specific codes and the exceptions for your given
    area.

    >
    >Success stories like the ones you mentioned are rare.


    Not really, this country was built on them.

    >People love to
    >hear how they can make millions, but in reality it is very unlikely.
    >With a population of close to 300 million, there are bound to be some
    >success stories. Looking to those people for inspiration is like
    >looking at lottery winners and concluding that the lottery is a great
    >way to make money.


    If you buy into that, you have already failed and might as well
    concentrate on being a wage slave. You have already closed the door
    on any other opportunity.

    >


    .....

    >
    >Something close to 90% of all small businesses fail during the first
    >two years. Usually they lack the cash to meet their obligations.


    Probably closer to 95%. The actual reason is they lack any business
    ability what so ever and blaming finance is the easy way out. You
    have to accept the fact that half the people are below average and
    there isn't anything you can do for them.

    >

    ....

    >off. I unfortunately must make a living in the real world.


    When all is said and done, the real world works on Darwin rules.

    Best of luck
     
    Ron Todd, Nov 12, 2005
    #31
  12. Chinvat

    Ron Todd Guest

    On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:01:29 +0000 (UTC),
    (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:

    ....

    >
    >From what I've read, most technology business fail because of a lack of
    >capital,


    ....

    Almost all businesses fail from a lack of any management talent what
    so ever. The lack of capital is one of the results from the lack of
    management talent. No one wants to admit their business failed
    because they ran it into the ground. The two excuses's I hear most
    often are, (1) I just couldn't get any good people, and (2) Lack of
    capital. The most common reason I see is that they never had the
    talent to run a business in the first place.
     
    Ron Todd, Nov 12, 2005
    #32
  13. Chinvat

    Guest

    It has been rare that I agree with Mr. Todd, but I can agree with this
    post 100%

    Christopher Mewhort, EA, CGA

    On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:49:40 GMT, Ron Todd
    <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:01:29 +0000 (UTC),
    > (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
    >
    >...
    >
    >>
    >>From what I've read, most technology business fail because of a lack of
    >>capital,

    >
    >...
    >
    >Almost all businesses fail from a lack of any management talent what
    >so ever. The lack of capital is one of the results from the lack of
    >management talent. No one wants to admit their business failed
    >because they ran it into the ground. The two excuses's I hear most
    >often are, (1) I just couldn't get any good people, and (2) Lack of
    >capital. The most common reason I see is that they never had the
    >talent to run a business in the first place.
     
    , Nov 12, 2005
    #33
  14. the #1 reason a business fails is a lack of customers.

    (if it's just due to poor management, owners can simply replace
    management. it also can't be due to capital because there are
    thousands of hungry venture capitalists out there looking for good
    investments all the time.)
     
    mrs. eliza humperdink, Nov 13, 2005
    #34
  15. Chinvat

    Ashley K. Knowlton MBA

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    4
    Go register with an employment agency that specializes in business positions - for example, Robert Half has an accounting division. Many companies have outsourced the candidate search process to such agencies and there are lots of direct-to-hire positions they handle. This will get you a "foot in the door" and more experience.

    A more positive attitude toward the people who are looking to hire you may go a long way as well.
     
    Ashley K. Knowlton MBA, Mar 7, 2016
    #35
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