certification, grad school or ???


J

Joe Canuck

You think an MBA with a concentration in accounting might be the
answer? An MBA degree is a joke! Probably the most overrated business
degree outside of a degree in management.

You will find that your MBA will be you "less" employable, not more.
Okay, what degree do *you* have and why did you pursue it?
 
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R

Ron Todd

You think an MBA with a concentration in accounting might be the
answer? An MBA degree is a joke! Probably the most overrated business
degree outside of a degree in management.

You will find that your MBA will be you "less" employable, not more.
Yes, it does have that effect these days. I find many managers are
hiring down to protect their own positions. Probably one of the
reasons we are having so many bankruptcies.
 
R

Ron Todd

prove it, buddy. the *average* MBA from harvard or stanford B school
earnings $250,000/yr
4 years after the MBA degree. you can view these stats at the school
web site.

Yes, at the dozen or so top tier B schools, thanks to the hiring
nepotism, you do see this. Once you get out of the top tier it
declines rapidly until you start getting negative net present values
for the cost of an MBA. If you graduate from the Harvard or Stanford
B school you are not going to be interviewing for a job a Pop's
Trucks.
 
J

John

"Ron Todd" <rltodd@ix.netcom.nospam.com
prove it, buddy. the *average* MBA from harvard or stanford B school
earnings $250,000/yr
4 years after the MBA degree. you can view these stats at the school
web site.
Yes, at the dozen or so top tier B schools, thanks to the hiring
nepotism, you do see this. Once you get out of the top tier it
declines rapidly until you start getting negative net present values
for the cost of an MBA. If you graduate from the Harvard or Stanford
B school you are not going to be interviewing for a job a Pop's
Trucks.

also the "stats" are submitted by alumni groups and consequently there
are many not counted
 
M

mrs. eliza humperdink

bottom line: this is the land of opportunity. if you have to certify
to get yourself a "job", you are not taking full advantage of the
myriad of great opportunties your country has to offer. how about
starting a business instead of begging for a job?
 
C

Chinvat

mrs. eliza humperdink said:
bottom line: this is the land of opportunity. if you have to certify
to get yourself a "job", you are not taking full advantage of the
myriad of great opportunties your country has to offer. how about
starting a business instead of begging for a job?
I don't have the capital or the credit to start a business. As far as
graduate school, I'm certainly not looking at Harvard or Stanford, more
like a California State University or small private university.
 
J

Joe Canuck

mrs. eliza humperdink said:
bottom line: this is the land of opportunity. if you have to certify
to get yourself a "job", you are not taking full advantage of the
myriad of great opportunties your country has to offer. how about
starting a business instead of begging for a job?
In a sense I agree in so much that certification often only proves that
someone was able to learn the material and pass the exam to obtain
certification. The ability to get work accomplished in the real world is
entirely another matter.

Personally, I would hire someone with real world experience rather than
someone only waving certifications around.
 
R

Ron Todd

I don't have the capital or the credit to start a business. As far as
graduate school, I'm certainly not looking at Harvard or Stanford, more
like a California State University or small private university.
As a CSU alumni I can attest that most of them are not that great.
They never cultivated their alumni to generate placements. Jerry
Brown's renaming the State Colleges to Universities reminds me of that
line in the musical 1776 about an Ox and a Bull. Any how, being
serious about it, UCLA and Berkeley have a much greater big buck
hiring potential. If your looking at a great private for placements
look at U.S.C.

On the capital requirements to start a business. Mike Dell started
his little enterprise out of his dorm room. Gates started his on
someone else's computer. Amos of Famous Amos started his out of his
kitchen. Lack of capital is a much over rate impediment, unless you
want to do one of the classic B school things like Fred's Federal
Express (which the B School prof said would work :) )

Best of luck, the world needs one heck of a lot more entrepreneurs
and a lot fewer wage slaves.
 
C

Chinvat

Ron Todd wrote:

Any how, being
serious about it, UCLA and Berkeley have a much greater big buck
hiring potential. If your looking at a great private for placements
look at U.S.C.
Those schools have experience requirements for admittance. Though CSUs
do nothing as far as placements, the quality of education is about the
same as the Berkeley and UCLA. Some employers must realize this.
On the capital requirements to start a business. Mike Dell started
his little enterprise out of his dorm room. Gates started his on
someone else's computer. Amos of Famous Amos started his out of his
kitchen. Lack of capital is a much over rate impediment, unless you
want to do one of the classic B school things like Fred's Federal
Express (which the B School prof said would work :) )
I don't know much about Mike Dell, but Bill Gates borrowed $40,000 from
his father and bought DOS from some guy. He then gave it away, so
people stopped buying other operating systems, since they already had a
free one. Once he crushed the competition, he started charging for it.

As far as, Famous Amos, what he did was probably illegal. It is against
the law to make food for sale in your home, as there are strict health
codes on commercial kitchens. If you want to rent a commercial kitchen,
you will pay plenty.

Success stories like the ones you mentioned are rare. People love to
hear how they can make millions, but in reality it is very unlikely.
With a population of close to 300 million, there are bound to be some
success stories. Looking to those people for inspiration is like
looking at lottery winners and concluding that the lottery is a great
way to make money.

In reality, Americans are working longer hours for less money. Wages in
the bottom three quintiles has decreased steadily since the 1960s, with
the fourth quintile holding steady. White collar unemployment has
surpassed blue collar unemployment. Employer provided benefits are
decreasing, as well as, mortality rates and most quality of life
measures. If there was a way out of this downward spiral, I'm sure most
Americans would jump at the chance.

Something close to 90% of all small businesses fail during the first
two years. Usually they lack the cash to meet their obligations.

You won't hear any of this stuff from right-wing business school
professors and you definitely won't hear it in the mainstream news. But
hey, why not just crank up the Fox News, so you can hear how great
America is and how everyone is doing so well. You're probably better
off. I unfortunately must make a living in the real world.
 
G

Gregory L. Hansen

As a CSU alumni I can attest that most of them are not that great.
They never cultivated their alumni to generate placements. Jerry
Brown's renaming the State Colleges to Universities reminds me of that
line in the musical 1776 about an Ox and a Bull. Any how, being
serious about it, UCLA and Berkeley have a much greater big buck
hiring potential. If your looking at a great private for placements
look at U.S.C.

On the capital requirements to start a business. Mike Dell started
his little enterprise out of his dorm room. Gates started his on
someone else's computer. Amos of Famous Amos started his out of his
kitchen. Lack of capital is a much over rate impediment, unless you
want to do one of the classic B school things like Fred's Federal
Express (which the B School prof said would work :) )
From what I've read, most technology business fail because of a lack of
capital, and inaccurately estimating the amount of capital needed, and not
because it was a bad idea. You can pull out the odd examples of a Woz and
Jobs doing business in a garage funded by the proceeds on the sale of a
calculator and a VW Bus, but that misses similar ventures that didn't go
billion. I'm not sure what makes the Dells and Jobses different, but part
of it has to do with being among the first to develop an idea whose time
has come. How many mass-market PCs were there before the Apple? None,
that's how many. But the technology was all there.
 
R

Ron Todd

Ron Todd wrote:

Any how, being

Those schools have experience requirements for admittance. Though CSUs
do nothing as far as placements, the quality of education is about the
same as the Berkeley and UCLA.
Yes it is. The actual quality of the education is pretty much the
same from any two schools. That isn't what they claim or the folk
myth, but it is. The central relevant fact is that Harvard recruits
from the top 1% of available students and the others get the
leftovers.
Some employers must realize this.
No they don't. The employment process is nowhere near as rational as
the "experts" would have you believe. Read "What Color is My
Parachute," by Boles. Employment groups tend to go with their alma
maters and what's trendy. More CEOs are Harvard, etc. graduates, so
that is where their companies recruit.
I don't know much about Mike Dell, but Bill Gates borrowed $40,000 from
his father and bought DOS from some guy.
That was later. Microsoft Basic was the successful start up project.
The actual startup project was a traffic controller thing that he and
his partner sold never delivered.

He then gave it away, so
people stopped buying other operating systems, since they already had a
free one. Once he crushed the competition, he started charging for it.
You really ought to read how the early Microsoft business model
worked. "Give away" and Microsoft are not things you can use in the
same paragraph.

As far as, Famous Amos, what he did was probably illegal. It is against
the law to make food for sale in your home, as there are strict health
codes on commercial kitchens. If you want to rent a commercial kitchen,
you will pay plenty.
You have to read the specific codes and the exceptions for your given
area.
Success stories like the ones you mentioned are rare.
Not really, this country was built on them.
People love to
hear how they can make millions, but in reality it is very unlikely.
With a population of close to 300 million, there are bound to be some
success stories. Looking to those people for inspiration is like
looking at lottery winners and concluding that the lottery is a great
way to make money.
If you buy into that, you have already failed and might as well
concentrate on being a wage slave. You have already closed the door
on any other opportunity.
.....


Something close to 90% of all small businesses fail during the first
two years. Usually they lack the cash to meet their obligations.
Probably closer to 95%. The actual reason is they lack any business
ability what so ever and blaming finance is the easy way out. You
have to accept the fact that half the people are below average and
there isn't anything you can do for them.
....

off. I unfortunately must make a living in the real world.
When all is said and done, the real world works on Darwin rules.

Best of luck
 
R

Ron Todd

....
From what I've read, most technology business fail because of a lack of
capital,
....

Almost all businesses fail from a lack of any management talent what
so ever. The lack of capital is one of the results from the lack of
management talent. No one wants to admit their business failed
because they ran it into the ground. The two excuses's I hear most
often are, (1) I just couldn't get any good people, and (2) Lack of
capital. The most common reason I see is that they never had the
talent to run a business in the first place.
 
C

chrismewhort

It has been rare that I agree with Mr. Todd, but I can agree with this
post 100%

Christopher Mewhort, EA, CGA
 
M

mrs. eliza humperdink

the #1 reason a business fails is a lack of customers.

(if it's just due to poor management, owners can simply replace
management. it also can't be due to capital because there are
thousands of hungry venture capitalists out there looking for good
investments all the time.)
 
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Go register with an employment agency that specializes in business positions - for example, Robert Half has an accounting division. Many companies have outsourced the candidate search process to such agencies and there are lots of direct-to-hire positions they handle. This will get you a "foot in the door" and more experience.

A more positive attitude toward the people who are looking to hire you may go a long way as well.
 

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