Co-op Bank Bonds to Shares


J

Judith

The point is that the divis are not linked to company profits, which is
where you blundered. But do keep digging.

Please show me where you think I claimed that they were.

I will then show you where you said that they could not be variable returns.
 
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J

Judith

The West Brom did not treat the holders fairly,
Derek

In what way - did they perhaps breach the Ts&Cs of the agreements?

Did they do something not covered in the small print?

Were they mis-sold?
 
J

Judith

Why are you making these obvious points, though?

I realised that you did not know what you were talking about and wanted to
help in your education.
 
J

Judith

<snip>

I am sorry to put it bluntly: you took a financial gamble - and the gamble
failed.

Is that reasonable?
 
J

Judith

PIBS are similar to Preference Shares in PLCs

They have a fixed percentage of interest on their face value (the value of the shares when issued), this will not vary.
E.g. a PIB with a face value of one pound might pay of dividend of 7 pence each year.

But the market or (trade) value of these PIBS can go up or down, e.g. you might be able to buy a PIB with a face value of one pound which pays a 7 pence dividend for only 50 pence, in which case you would get 14% return each year on your investment.

Yes - but is it not true that some PIBS are sold as fixed interest rate - and
some are sold as variable interest rate (without the current trade value
entering in to things)
 
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A

aaa

Judith said:
Yes - but is it not true that some PIBS are sold as fixed interest rate - and
some are sold as variable interest rate (without the current trade value
entering in to things)
Preference shares are always fixed dividend, not 100% sure about PIBs.
 
G

GB

Please show me where you think I claimed that they were.

I will then show you where you said that they could not be variable returns.
You said: "Holders receive variable dividends linked to the profits of
the bank. "

I then said: "I don't know the details of the Co-op bonds, but I doubt
that the dividends are variable in that way. However, they can probably
be stopped if the bank is doing badly - that's the whole point for the
bank of issuing these instruments. "

You then got all huffy and threw your toys out of the pram. :)

Of course, on your main point, you are right. PIBS are a risky
investment, and investors shouldn't complain if they lose out.
 
D

Derek F

<snip>

I am sorry to put it bluntly: you took a financial gamble - and the gamble
failed.

Is that reasonable?
I still have about 15% of my capital left :) That is more that I can
say about shares I bought in a couple of other companies.
With one of them ROK new business was coming in and the bullish
directors were buying shares and pushing the price up after the
departure of the financial director. My investment lasted all of three
weeks.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11708451

You win with many and you lose with a few. My other two long term losers
are Barclay's and Lloyds/TSB
Derek
 
D

Derek F

SNIP
Yes its the Co-op - safe as houses just like the Halifax and Northern
Rock BS...
It always amused me that RBS built their headquarters on the site of
Gogarburn Hospital.
http://www.lhsa.lib.ed.ac.uk/exhibits/hosp_hist/gogarburn.htm
From their actions some of the directors may have started off as patients.
Derek
Whether they lose their investment will depend a bit on whether the
bonds can be converted to shares at the bank's option.
RBS shareholders got well hammered when they had to bailed out.
The pain for HBOS shareholders was less as Gordon Brown suckered a mark
(Eric Daniels) into merging into a healthy [my :-(((] bank, but then
shareholders in Lloyds got a caning too (but not the depositors).
Why the Co-op's directors were so deluded about their own position that
five years after the banking crisis they were in the process of trying
to buy part of Lloyds Banking Group (and probably the bad part!) while
their own balance sheet was in ruins remains to be seen, but it probably
arises from their mistaken belief that they are really philanthropists
rather than supposed to be taking great care looking after other
people's money.
Oh yes and they just built a new (£800M?) HQ...
http://i3.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article1766040.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/One-Angel-Square_5843875-1766040.jpg
<But closed the nearest local branch a few years ago - retail customers
should have taken the hint then!
 
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