CPE for CPAs and EAs

[MTW]

Someone asked me privately whether you could claim the same
CPE credits for both CPA and EA status (if, like me, you
hold both credentials).

As far as I know, there is nothing to prevent the claiming
of simultaneous credits. However, you must make sure that
the courses meet the requirements of EACH designation. As I
recall (and perhaps others will elaborate), EAs can't claim
credit for much other that tax courses. However, I believe
the DOP/OPR has opined that STATE tax courses can be counted
for EA purposes.

One sticky point is the new "ethics" requirement. In my
state, CPAs must do 4 hours of ethics every 3 years, and the
course must generally come from an approved list published
by the Board. EAs must apparently now obtain 2 hours of
ethics per year, but it is not yet clear (to me, at least)
whether this requires a discrete ethics course, or may
reflect content included in OTHER tax related courses. My
major point here is that you will probably NOT be able to
count the same ethics courses for CPA and EA purposes due to
the unique requirements of each.

MTW

 

[D. Stussy]

Someone asked me privately whether you could claim the same
CPE credits for both CPA and EA status (if, like me, you
hold both credentials).

As far as I know, there is nothing to prevent the claiming
of simultaneous credits. However, you must make sure that
the courses meet the requirements of EACH designation. As I
recall (and perhaps others will elaborate), EAs can't claim
credit for much other that tax courses. However, I believe
the DOP/OPR has opined that STATE tax courses can be counted
for EA purposes.

Ok, but they must carry the appropriate approval. Not all
state tax courses necessarily count.

One sticky point is the new "ethics" requirement. In my
state, CPAs must do 4 hours of ethics every 3 years, and the
course must generally come from an approved list published
by the Board. EAs must apparently now obtain 2 hours of
ethics per year, but it is not yet clear (to me, at least)
whether this requires a discrete ethics course, or may
reflect content included in OTHER tax related courses. My
major point here is that you will probably NOT be able to
count the same ethics courses for CPA and EA purposes due to
the unique requirements of each.

For those going to the IRS Nationwide Tax Forums (also,
on-line registration is now finally open - but up to $99,
and DOUBLE if too close - the first doubling date being June
23), I note that the schedule appears to include an ethics
seminar (or more than one). I saw a footnote symnbol
relating to such.

I don't see offhand why the 2 hours of the EA ethics
wouldn't necessarily do for 2 of the 4 hours for CPA ethics
- but as states directly regulate CPA's, this answer could
vary....

 

[jake johnson]

[...snip...]

One sticky point is the new "ethics" requirement. In my
state, CPAs must do 4 hours of ethics every 3 years, and the
course must generally come from an approved list published
by the Board. EAs must apparently now obtain 2 hours of
ethics per year, but it is not yet clear (to me, at least)
whether this requires a discrete ethics course, or may
reflect content included in OTHER tax related courses. My
major point here is that you will probably NOT be able to
count the same ethics courses for CPA and EA purposes due to
the unique requirements of each.

[...snip...]

The following snippet from Circ. 230 makes me think that
(for example) an update course on GAAP might qualify as CPE:

(f) Qualifying continuing education--(1) General.
To qualify for continuing education credit, a course of
learning must
(i) Be a qualifying program designed to enhance
professional knowledge in Federal taxation or Federal
tax related matters, i.e., programs comprised of
current subject matter in Federal taxation or Federal
tax related matters, including accounting, tax
preparation software and taxation or ethics; and
[...]

Am I wrong on this?

 

[MTW]

For those going to the IRS Nationwide Tax Forums (also,
on-line registration is now finally open - but up to $99,
and DOUBLE if too close - the first doubling date being June
23), I note that the schedule appears to include an ethics
seminar (or more than one). I saw a footnote symnbol
relating to such.

It also looks like the AICPA is getting involved. (That,
of course, could be the beginning of the end for those
forums! <g>)

MTW

 

[MTW]

I don't see offhand why the 2 hours of the EA ethics
wouldn't necessarily do for 2 of the 4 hours for CPA ethics
- but as states directly regulate CPA's, this answer could
vary....

Not likely, at least in my state. My state board requires that
the ethics course must be "particularized" for state law and
regulations, which differ in some respects from the UAA and the
AICPA code of ethics. Therefore, only thoses courses that have
been specifically pre-approved by my state board will likely
qualify.

Also, most of the course is devoted to issues like "independence"
and "objectivity" that are somewhat unique to the world of CPAs
and (generally) have little to do with taxation. Ethics in
taxation ARE covered, but to a lessor degree.

MTW

 

[MTW]

The following snippet from Circ. 230 makes me think that
(for example) an update course on GAAP might qualify as CPE:

I don't know officially. But, when Circular 230 uses the term
"accounting," I suspect they mean it in the sense of
"bookkeeping," "record keeping," and/or "compiling" (term used
informally) data for tax returns. And/or in the sense of
"quickbooks." GAAP really has nothing to do with any of that.

The sole province of GAAP is the preparation of financial
statements, including often-complicated measurement principles
and disclosure standards. GAAP says nothing about how
transactions are recorded or records are maintained.

So, unless the controversial corporate AMT adjustment for GAAP
income is reinstated (highly unlikely, IMO), I'd say that GAAP
has absolutely nothing to do with taxation. And, therefore, I
would be surprised if a "pure" GAAP update course would qualify
for CPE for EAs. On the other hand, a course that dealt solely
with income taxes FOR GAAP ~might~ qualify, as an EA could be
asked to assist with such calculations or reconciliations.

Also, as Stussy notes, I believe that courses must be
PRE-qualified for EAs.


MTW

 

[Frank S. Duke, Jr.]

For those going to the IRS Nationwide Tax Forums (also,

It also looks like the AICPA is getting involved. (That,
of course, could be the beginning of the end for those
forums! <g>)

If you are a member of the National Society of Tax
Professionals, registration is $75 through their site. I
went to this last year and found it to be a lot of
information and a lot of CPS for a low registration fee. I
was well satisfied with the content.

All freely provided advice guarantee correct or double your
money back

Frank S. Duke, Jr. CPA
Cincinnati, OH USA

 

[Helen P. OPlanick EA]

For those going to the IRS Nationwide Tax Forums (also,

on-line registration is now finally open - but up to $99,
and DOUBLE if too close - the first doubling date being June
23), I note that the schedule appears to include an ethics
seminar (or more than one). I saw a footnote symnbol
relating to such.

Ethics were available last year also. And to anyone going
to Atlantic City, look for me in the NAEA booth and teaching
on Wed and Thurs. I'll be on the beach and in casinos the
rest of the time.

Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents

 

[Wcm7315]

If you are a member of the National Society of Tax

Professionals, registration is $75 through their site. I
went to this last year and found it to be a lot of
information and a lot of CPS for a low registration fee.

I believe that should be the "National Association of Tax
Professionals" (NATP). Their convention is in S.F. in July.
Anyone from this group planning to attend?

Will

 

[D. Stussy]

For those going to the IRS Nationwide Tax Forums (also,

Ethics were available last year also. And to anyone going
to Atlantic City, look for me in the NAEA booth and teaching
on Wed and Thurs. I'll be on the beach and in casinos the
rest of the time.

Maybe so (I don't recall offhand), but I do remember that
they weren't specifically identified. Somewhere, I still
have all my old books - even back to the 1994 edition; the
first time I attended.

 

[Helen P. OPlanick EA]

Ethics were available last year also

Last year, NSTP did it and it was a 2 hour session (ran
twice for a total of 4 hours available) and it was packed
solid in Atlanta.

Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents

 

[Frank S. Duke, Jr.]

If you are a member of the National Society of Tax

I believe that should be the "National Association of Tax
Professionals" (NATP). Their convention is in S.F. in July.
Anyone from this group planning to attend?

Nope, it is NSTP as in Society. In fact, their convention
is in San Antonio back to back with the September IRS Forum.
I just signed up to go to both yesterday. I get two
conferences, both of which offer a substantial number of
CPEs and both of which offer a great room rate, $91 at the
Marriott Rivercenter. Together they cost $400, less than
half of what a 3 day AICPA event would cost.

The only downside is that the area looks so interesting and
the hotel so nice that my wife wants to go along for the
weekend and I can't charge her plane ticket or meals as
business expenses. It will be fun to have her along anyway.

All freely provided advice guarantee correct or double your
money back

Frank S. Duke, Jr. CPA
Cincinnati, OH USA

 

[MTW]

I believe that should be the "National Association of Tax
Professionals" (NATP). Their convention is in S.F. in July.
Anyone from this group planning to attend?

These are two separate organizations. See:

www.nstp.org

and

www.natptax.com

MTW

 

[Phoebe Roberts, EA]

I believe that should be the "National Association of Tax
Professionals" (NATP). Their convention is in S.F. in July.
Anyone from this group planning to attend?

If Caterpillar handles the car trip to CPE in Omaha at the
end of the month well, we may do San Francisco. If not,
then not.

Phoebe