end of year accounts and qualifications


S

Sylv

Hi there,

We run two Ltd companies and we usually have our end of the year accounts
done by our chartered accountants. We're not entirely happy with him mainly
because lack of communications between us and deadlines not met on his side.

We've recently employed a part time (temp) in house accountant who is also
proprietor of their own (one man band) accountancy. Their name is followed
by " MAAT".
I can see there is a website (aat.org.uk) with a self-employed members
directory but this persons name does not come up when I search for it.
Having said that the temp agency guarantees this persons qualifications.

The questions is, does this MAAT qualification really mean something (as far
as i can see you can pay to be a member) and what qualifications do you need
to handle end of the year accounts calculations? Or do you have to be a
chartered accountant?

This person seems very capable with the tasks they have been given so far
and we get on very well.

Many thanks for your advice or pointers.

Sylv'
 
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T

Troy Steadman

Sylv said:
The questions is, does this MAAT qualification really mean something
A Chartered Accountant [ACA] or a Chartered Certified Accountant [ACCA]
is a far higher qualification than this bloke's Association of
Accounting Technicians [AAT] qualification. Typically with A'levels he
will have gained it on a two year course two evenings a week at the
local Tech.

That will qualify him perfectly for the job you have him doing at the
moment, but if your company affairs are complex he might (then again he
might not) get out of his depth at the year end.

Why not get a new Chartered Accountant? In accountancy, as in so much of
life, you get what you pay for.




--
 
M

Martin

Sylv said:
Hi there,

We run two Ltd companies and we usually have our end of the year accounts
done by our chartered accountants. We're not entirely happy with him mainly
because lack of communications between us and deadlines not met on his side.

We've recently employed a part time (temp) in house accountant who is also
proprietor of their own (one man band) accountancy. Their name is followed
by " MAAT".
I can see there is a website (aat.org.uk) with a self-employed members
directory but this persons name does not come up when I search for it.
Having said that the temp agency guarantees this persons qualifications.

The questions is, does this MAAT qualification really mean something (as far
as i can see you can pay to be a member) and what qualifications do you need
to handle end of the year accounts calculations? Or do you have to be a
chartered accountant?

This person seems very capable with the tasks they have been given so far
and we get on very well.

Many thanks for your advice or pointers.
Suggest you get the temp to give you names of quite a few Ltd Coys whose y/e
a/c's, filing and tax returns he's done and even some non-incorporated
businesses too.

Ring up _several_ and see what they have to say about him.

A formal qualification is not the same as ability, thoroughness and
conscientiousness - as your previous CA has proved.

You don't need a CA unless you need an audit, which I deduce you don't.

Unless the guy is a complete fraudster, he'll probably be chuffed to be
asked to do your y/e - and reward you in kind.

He'll also be keen (I guess) to keep your records immaculate and balanced to
ease his y/e work.

Good luck.
 
D

Dazza

Sylv said:
Hi there,

We run two Ltd companies and we usually have our end of the year accounts
done by our chartered accountants. We're not entirely happy with him mainly
because lack of communications between us and deadlines not met on his side.

We've recently employed a part time (temp) in house accountant who is also
proprietor of their own (one man band) accountancy. Their name is followed
by " MAAT".
I can see there is a website (aat.org.uk) with a self-employed members
directory but this persons name does not come up when I search for it.
Having said that the temp agency guarantees this persons qualifications.

The questions is, does this MAAT qualification really mean something (as far
as i can see you can pay to be a member)
Yes, he is a qualified accounting technician who will have sat tax papers
which are almost identical to tax papers at level 2 ACCA.

what qualifications do you need
to handle end of the year accounts calculations?
You can do them yourself without qualifications unless various reporting
laws mean you *have* to have them audited.

Or do you have to be a
chartered accountant?
Nope, you do not need to be a chartered accountant to prepare accounts. It
is a myth which has lived with the profession for a long time (as can be
seen in this case)

This person seems very capable with the tasks they have been given so far
and we get on very well.
It depends on how big the job is and the complexity of the tasks he will
have to deal with. There is a chance that he may not have studied
accounting at such a level to achieve the knowledge required to complete
your particular circumstances
 
D

Dazza

Troy Steadman said:
Sylv said:
The questions is, does this MAAT qualification really mean something
A Chartered Accountant [ACA] or a Chartered Certified Accountant [ACCA]
is a far higher qualification than this bloke's Association of
Accounting Technicians [AAT] qualification. Typically with A'levels he
will have gained it on a two year course two evenings a week at the
local Tech.
He will also have sat papers with AAT which are similar to medium - higher
level papers with ACCA & ACA (Paper 2.3 in ACCA is almost identical to the
two tax papers with AAT if not for a few pages on trading losses, so his tax
knowledge will be similar to that who has is part qualified ACCA (in theory
anyway)

He may have far superior people skills to a chartered accountant. He may
well be much more adept at putting a set of accounts together from scratch
than a chartered accountant. Family commitments may have meant that AAT
was as far as he wanted to go, despite the chance that he may well be far
more suited to the job than some qualifieds.
That will qualify him perfectly for the job you have him doing at the
moment, but if your company affairs are complex he might (then again he
might not) get out of his depth at the year end.

Why not get a new Chartered Accountant? In accountancy, as in so much of
life, you get what you pay for.
How many of us on here have took over a job from a chartered accountant and
said, after flickling through the previous years working papers and mess -
"I thought he was chartered?"

IMO you have to look further than the letters after the name before deciding
wether they are the men (or women) for the job.
 
D

Dazza

Sylv said:
Hi there,

We run two Ltd companies and we usually have our end of the year accounts
done by our chartered accountants. We're not entirely happy with him mainly
because lack of communications between us and deadlines not met on his side.

We've recently employed a part time (temp) in house accountant who is also
proprietor of their own (one man band) accountancy. Their name is followed
by " MAAT".
I can see there is a website (aat.org.uk) with a self-employed members
directory but this persons name does not come up when I search for it.
Having said that the temp agency guarantees this persons qualifications.

The questions is, does this MAAT qualification really mean something (as far
as i can see you can pay to be a member) and what qualifications do you need
to handle end of the year accounts calculations? Or do you have to be a
chartered accountant?

This person seems very capable with the tasks they have been given so far
and we get on very well.

Many thanks for your advice or pointers.

Sylv'
Oh, almost forgot to say - AAT do not publish all members names on the
website. Only those members who are self employed and have requested that
particular service have their name "on show" so to speak.

If you are worried, ask him to bring in his certificates as proof.
 
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T

Troy Steadman

Dazza said:
He will also have sat papers with AAT which are similar to medium - higher
level papers with ACCA & ACA (Paper 2.3 in ACCA is almost identical to the
two tax papers with AAT if not for a few pages on trading losses, so his tax
knowledge will be similar to that who has is part qualified ACCA (in theory
anyway)
But what he may not have is battle-hardened experience of the rough
and tumble of business. Consider these words by Donald Rumsfeldt:

"As we know, there are known knowns, there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns, that is to say we know there
are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns,
the ones we don't know we don't know."

These last bite hardest, untaken golden opportunities we never
realised were there. Horses for courses Dazza?
 
T

Troy Steadman

Martin said:
Unless the guy is a complete fraudster, he'll probably be chuffed to be
asked to do your y/e - and reward you in kind.
Until he realises how difficult it is to do y/ends without Iris or
whatever it is you use Martin, and either:

1) Takes twenty times longer, gets it wrong, and charges 10 times more.
2) Buys the software for this one-off client and charges 50 times more.
3) Subcontracts the work to a Chartered Accountant.
4) Becomes stressed, disillusioned, starts drinking, wife leaves
him, work suffers, goes to prison, and it's all Sylv's fault!




--
 
D

Dazza

Troy Steadman said:
"Dazza" <[email protected]> wrote in message

But what he may not have is battle-hardened experience of the rough
and tumble of business.
If I had the choice between using a chartered accountant of 20 years at
£1000 who had the communication skills of an injured rabbit and plays golf 3
times a week or a well spoken knowledgeable AAT qualified technician at the
bottom of the ladder who is keen to show his skills at £800, I would go for
the technician.

Also of note is the fact that just because the main partners of a practice
are chartered does not mean that the staff working on the accounts are also
chartered - they may well be AAT qualified - hell, they may even hold GCSE
accounting.
 
D

Dazza

Troy Steadman said:
Until he realises how difficult it is to do y/ends without Iris or
whatever it is you use Martin, and either:

1) Takes twenty times longer, gets it wrong, and charges 10 times more.
2) Buys the software for this one-off client and charges 50 times more.
3) Subcontracts the work to a Chartered Accountant.
...............who delegates the work to an AAT second year student at a
charge out rate of £50 per hour.

4) Becomes stressed, disillusioned, starts drinking, wife leaves
him, work suffers, goes to prison
Enron anyone?
 
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J

Jonathan Bryce

Dazza said:
..............who delegates the work to an AAT second year student at a
charge out rate of £50 per hour.
And checks their work afterwards.
 
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