Estate Agents over nosy


L

Len

Last time I bought a house the estate agent asked to see my savings pass
book to verify money available.

Just how much are they entitled to ask.

My income?

Exact source of all of the proceeds - mortgage as well as other money to be
used as deposit?

Surely if they ring my mortgage broker who confirms the finance will not be
a problem will they still expect to dig intrusively into what I consider my
business?

Your help needed before I embark on buying again.

Len
 
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G

Gareth Jones

Len said:
Last time I bought a house the estate agent asked to see my savings pass
book to verify money available.
I hope you told them to piss off.
Just how much are they entitled to ask.
I suppose they can ask whatever they like. You don't have to answer of
course. If they won't proceed, then contact the vendor directly and
let him know you want to buy but the estate agent is being an asshole.

Gareth
 
D

derek

I hope you told them to piss off.


I suppose they can ask whatever they like. You don't have to answer of
course. If they won't proceed, then contact the vendor directly and
let him know you want to buy but the estate agent is being an asshole.
The estate agent is bound by law to pass on all the enquiries he
receives.

DG
 
T

tim

derek said:
So-oo,

Your sales enquiry has to be passed on to the vendor even if you tell
the estate agent to shove his impertinent questions where the sun
don't shine, and even if you don't.
but according to surveys this doesn't always happen

and how do you tell?

tim
 
R

Rob Graham

Len said:
Last time I bought a house the estate agent asked to see my savings pass
book to verify money available.

Just how much are they entitled to ask.

My income?

Exact source of all of the proceeds - mortgage as well as other money to be
used as deposit?

Surely if they ring my mortgage broker who confirms the finance will not be
a problem will they still expect to dig intrusively into what I consider my
business?

Your help needed before I embark on buying again.

Len
No law to stop him asking. No law to make you answer. No law to make the
vendor accept your offer.

Rob Graham
 
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R

Richard Faulkner

Len said:
Last time I bought a house the estate agent asked to see my savings pass
book to verify money available.

Just how much are they entitled to ask.

My income?

Exact source of all of the proceeds - mortgage as well as other money to be
used as deposit?

Surely if they ring my mortgage broker who confirms the finance will not be
a problem will they still expect to dig intrusively into what I consider my
business?

Your help needed before I embark on buying again.

Len
Len,

I am an estate agent and you would not believe the number of people who
make offers for properties without either having the money, or being
able to get it.

A mortgage broker's answer is often not worth a bean, as we have all
been misled, (possibly naievely, or in ignorance of some of the
borrowers circumstances), by brokers.

If I ask a "purchaser" for proof of their funds, and they refuse to give
it, my experience suggests that there is a strong chance that they dont
have it, or that they are going to be a difficult purchaser, or both.

I would strongly recommend that you cooperate as best you can with the
agent/s. There are several ways in which an offer can be put to a client
ranging from:

This seems like a fabulous offer, from a great purchaser

to

here is an offer, but we have our doubts about their ability to arrange
the finance.

You would be close to the latter if you refused to help me to help you.
 
L

Len

Richard Faulkner said:
Len,

I am an estate agent and you would not believe the number of people who
make offers for properties without either having the money, or being
able to get it.

A mortgage broker's answer is often not worth a bean, as we have all
been misled, (possibly naievely, or in ignorance of some of the
borrowers circumstances), by brokers.

If I ask a "purchaser" for proof of their funds, and they refuse to give
it, my experience suggests that there is a strong chance that they dont
have it, or that they are going to be a difficult purchaser, or both.

I would strongly recommend that you cooperate as best you can with the
agent/s. There are several ways in which an offer can be put to a client
ranging from:

This seems like a fabulous offer, from a great purchaser

to

here is an offer, but we have our doubts about their ability to arrange
the finance.

You would be close to the latter if you refused to help me to help you.
Hello Richard

I have no problem telling them how much, where it is and showing pass book
but I do object to the idea of being asked my income. Is this latter aspect
something an agent would normally ask?

Len
 
T

Tim

I do object to the idea of being asked my income.
Embarrassed that you earn too much? Just say to the agent: "more than you
mate! - by the way, how much do *you* earn?" !!

I wonder how many estate agents would be happy to "swap info" - ie tell you
*their* earnings ... ! Richard - would you tell anyone?
 
R

Richard Faulkner

Len said:
Hello Richard

I have no problem telling them how much, where it is and showing pass book
but I do object to the idea of being asked my income. Is this latter aspect
something an agent would normally ask?

Len
Len,

In short, Yes.

We have a responsibility to assess a purchasers financial position when
putting an offer forwards, so any questions which we feel are
appropriate to the individual case, are appropriate.

I have had people make me offers of £60,000 for a property and, when I
ask "How much deposit do you have?", Answer "£5,000".
"How much do you earn?", Answer "£10,000".

I get to know immediately that her offer was not worth a carrot, or
requires more investigation.

When this happens time, after time, ad nauseum, asking someones income
becomes almost automatic.

Why do you feel that you want to keep your income private in this
instant?
 
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R

Richard Faulkner

Embarrassed that you earn too much? Just say to the agent: "more than you
mate! - by the way, how much do *you* earn?" !!

I wonder how many estate agents would be happy to "swap info" - ie tell you
*their* earnings ... ! Richard - would you tell anyone?
If I am buying a house, it is either for cash, or with a non status
loan, so I will show the agent the bank statement which has the cash in
it, either for the whole thing, or for the 15% deposit. If they ask my
income, I dont actually know for the current year, but I can give them a
best guess, along with what my accounts say for the previous few years.

I have absolutely no problem with telling an estate agent I want to buy
a house from, anything at all about my finances if they ask.
 
T

Tim

Tim writes
If I am buying a house, it is either for cash, or with a non status
loan, so I will show the agent the bank statement which has the cash in
it, either for the whole thing, or for the 15% deposit. If they ask my
income, I dont actually know for the current year, but I can give them a
best guess, along with what my accounts say for the previous few years.

I have absolutely no problem with telling an estate agent I want to buy
a house from, anything at all about my finances if they ask.
Richard, I probably wasn't clear enough! I'm not talking about when you
are *buying* a house.

When you are *selling* houses, as an estate agent yourself, if someone asked
you what your income was when you had asked them the same question, would
you tell them when they tell you? ["swap info"]
 
L

Len

Richard Faulkner said:
Len,

In short, Yes.

We have a responsibility to assess a purchasers financial position when
putting an offer forwards, so any questions which we feel are
appropriate to the individual case, are appropriate.

I have had people make me offers of £60,000 for a property and, when I
ask "How much deposit do you have?", Answer "£5,000".
"How much do you earn?", Answer "£10,000".

I get to know immediately that her offer was not worth a carrot, or
requires more investigation.

When this happens time, after time, ad nauseum, asking someones income
becomes almost automatic.

Why do you feel that you want to keep your income private in this
instant?
I want to keep it private as I see it has nothing to do with them if a local
well established broker verifies direct with them that the finance will NOT
be a problem.

Len
 
R

Richard Faulkner

Tim writes
If I am buying a house, it is either for cash, or with a non status
loan, so I will show the agent the bank statement which has the cash in
it, either for the whole thing, or for the 15% deposit. If they ask my
income, I dont actually know for the current year, but I can give them a
best guess, along with what my accounts say for the previous few years.

I have absolutely no problem with telling an estate agent I want to buy
a house from, anything at all about my finances if they ask.
Richard, I probably wasn't clear enough! I'm not talking about when you
are *buying* a house.

When you are *selling* houses, as an estate agent yourself, if someone asked
you what your income was when you had asked them the same question, would
you tell them when they tell you? ["swap info"]
No! Why should I? - my income is not relevant to their ability to buy a
house, whereas their income probably is. If it isnt, I am open to an
explanation - like a non status mortgage.
 
R

Richard Faulkner

Len said:
I want to keep it private as I see it has nothing to do with them if a local
well established broker verifies direct with them that the finance will NOT
be a problem.

Len
Len,

Ultimately it is up to you what you tell them, up to them how they
report your offer, and up to the vendor whether they accept.
 
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T

Tiddy Ogg

I guess the days are past when any fly boy could set up as an estate
agent, which tarnished the reputation of the business, but do you, as
agent for the vendor, owe any duty of confidentiality to a potential
purchaser? Bearing in mind the aforementioned tarnished reputation
of your fellows, do you not think caution is understandable on the
purchaser's part?
(I quite understand your need to assess the chances of default.)

- Tiddy.

Contact me in plain text only at The Mutual address above,
(all html and attachments are blocked,)
or via my perverted poetry site:
http://www.btinternet.com/~tiddyogg
 
R

Richard Faulkner

Tiddy Ogg said:
I guess the days are past when any fly boy could set up as an estate
agent, which tarnished the reputation of the business, but do you, as
agent for the vendor, owe any duty of confidentiality to a potential
purchaser? Bearing in mind the aforementioned tarnished reputation
of your fellows, do you not think caution is understandable on the
purchaser's part?
(I quite understand your need to assess the chances of default.)

- Tiddy.
Tiddy,

Actually, any fly boy can still set up as an estate agent.

I dont owe any duty of confidentiality to a purchaser per se, but the
Data Protection act carries certain restrictions.

The dilemma is somewhat Catch 22. The fact is that we can never know,
(until we are let down, or a sale proceeds), if a buyer is for real or
not. In fact many buyers dont actually know that they are misleading us
as they are somewhat naieve regarding the process and the requirements.

In reality, we use our judgement in deciding how to recommend an offer
to a vendor. In reaching the judgement call, we ask a series of
questions, the answers to which, and the manner of the answers, help us
to form a judgement. One of these questions relates to income in most
cases, and the answer to the question will be put in the "judgement
pot". There is nothing scientific about it, and each estate agent will
have their own way.

All I am saying is that, based on 16 years ofexperience, if I ask
someone for their income, and the answer does not roll off their tongue,
it flags up a question mark that there there is a chance that something
not quite right. There will be exceptions to "the rule", but if we
treated everyone as the exception, we would be let down many times.
 
R

Richard Faulkner

Ronald said:
In particular, Richard, is this information which potential
purchasers provide to you confidential to yourself? I.e. do you
disclose to your client only that the offer "seems serious" or
do you report the actual size of their bank balance and income?
Depends on the circumstances - most times we would say that we have seen
proof of sufficient monies in an account to support the offer, and/or,
that we are satisfied that the income is enough to support the mortgage
application.

However, there have been occassions when a vendor client insists on
seeing the information before agreeing to proceed with a particular
offer. In these instances, we would seek the permission of the purchaser
to disclose the info, or provide copies of documents.

I have seen some buyers lose really good deals through a reluctance to
either provide the info, or allow it to be disclosed.

Usually no skin off my nose in the scheme of things.
 
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T

Tim

Tim writes
When you are *selling* houses, as an estate agent yourself, if someone asked
you what your income was when you had asked them the same question, would
you tell them when they tell you? ["swap info"]
No! Why should I?
Hmmm - thought so!

Seriously, I expect that the OP may be feeling much the same way. If he
easily earns enough to afford the mortgage, what does it matter to you
whether he earns just £5,000 per year over what he needs for the mortgage,
or if he earns £50,000 per year (or more!) extra??


my income is not relevant to their ability to buy a
house
Well, they *could* say that your income is relevant to the asking price of
the house - eg they might think that if you "earn a lot" then the house may
have been overpriced in order for the vendor to pay your high fee? Or the
fact that if you earn a lot, it may indicate that you are extremely good at
your job, ie of selling houses for as much as possible for the vendor -
hence again that it might have been put on at a high asking price for what
it is?
 

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