Estimated Tax Forms


J

jack

In a post a couple down I stupidly said vouchers when I meant estimated tax
forms. Sorry.

I know they don't send them to anyone who filed electronically.
But if you used a professional who filed paper, do they send you one?
 
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E

ed

In a post a couple down I stupidly said vouchers when I meant estimated tax
forms.  Sorry.

I know they don't send them to anyone who filed electronically.
But if you used a professional who filed paper, do they send you one?
You can get 1040ES instsructions and vouchers at www.irs.gov
 
B

Bill

You can get 1040ES instsructions and
vouchers at www.irs.gov
Ed gave you the practical answer.

The specific answer to your last question, "if you used a professional
who filed paper ..." is that the very fact you've used a professional
suggests you will do so again for your next return. Since the
professional has access to all necessary forms, the IRS saves money by
not bothering to send you _anything_ which you might need to file.

(In a sense, it can be seen as professional courtesy: i.e., the IRS
doesn't want to seem to be "poaching" by suggesting you could have a
direct relationship with them, since you have already demonstrated you
have a business arrangement with someone else -- and especially since
that someone is generally acting as an _agent_ in support of the IRS.)

Bill
 
P

Paul Thomas, CPA

Bill said:
(In a sense, it can be seen as professional courtesy: i.e., the IRS
doesn't want to seem to be "poaching" by suggesting you could have a
direct relationship with them, since you have already demonstrated you
have a business arrangement with someone else -- and especially since
that someone is generally acting as an _agent_ in support of the IRS.)




Wait a minute. I surely don't consider myself "an _agent_ in support of the
IRS".

I am an advocate for my client, within the boundaries of the law. My client
pays me, not the IRS. My client expects me to do what's right by them,
meaning that they expect me to keep their tax bill as low as possible given
the law and the information they provide to me.



As far as the IRS not sending forms to taxpayer who use a professional tax
preparer, I would think that in addition to the cost savings, it reduces
much confusion on the part of the taxpayer who gets these blank forms and
calls 1) the IRS, 2) the tax preparer or most likely 3) both.
 
C

Condor

In a post a couple down I stupidly said vouchers when I meant estimated
tax forms. Sorry.

I know they don't send them to anyone who filed electronically.
But if you used a professional who filed paper, do they send you one?
If you're asking about 2009 estimated taxes, Form 1040-ES for 2009 won't be
available until sometime early next year. When IRS releases it, you will
find it posted in the following folder:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/


Condor
 
J

jack

The specific answer to your last question, "if you used a professional
who filed paper ..." is that the very fact you've used a professional
suggests you will do so again for your next return. Since the
professional has access to all necessary forms, the IRS saves money by
not bothering to send you _anything_ which you might need to file.
Thank you for reading my question!

So, if you used a professional who filed paper, you DO NOT get an estimated
form from the IRS.

I have searched dozens of sites, and cannot find that documented anywhere.
Can you give me a reference?
Thanks.
 
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B

Bill

(e-mail address removed) (Paul Thomas, CPA) posted:
Wait a minute. I surely don't consider myself
"an _agent_ in support of the IRS".
I am an advocate for my client, within the
boundaries of the law. My client pays me, not
the IRS. My client expects me to do what's
right by them, meaning that they expect me to
keep their tax bill as low as possible given the
law and the information they provide to me.
Indeed, I agree as to your function and your allegiance. But (and maybe
I should have added this) _in the mind of the IRS_, you are "generally"
acting as an _agent_, since you assist taxpayers in complying with
filing requirements.

FWIW, I'm a volunteer preparer with TaxAide, and I certainly feel my
commitment is to assist the folks who come to me for help, but I also
know the IRS considers all TaxAide people as "instruments of their
purpose" to ensure full and faithful compliance with their regulations.

I know that, because IRS instructors have stated as much. That's why
they support us with training and materials.

Bill
 
B

Bill

(e-mail address removed) (jack) posted:
Thank you for reading my question!
So, if you used a professional who filed paper,
you DO NOT get an estimated form from the
IRS.
I have searched dozens of sites, and cannot
find that documented anywhere. Can you give
me a reference?
My source was my state coordinator for TaxAide. We were receiving
complaints from taxpayers, that they were not receiving their forms any
more. I posed the question to him, and he checked with his liaison at
IRS, who explained it was a simple expense-reduction decision, based on
the calculation that the odds favor a TP who seeks professional aid,
will return to the same source in the future.

They have apparently also done studies that show that once someone has
discovered TaxAide, they'll continue to use it.

And incidentally, once the TP goes back to filing their own return, they
will start receiving forms again. (And my source for that is my own
experience. I was using TaxAide forms to make sure my site received
credit for filing my personal Form. Once I discovered the policy, I
just used a plain form, and the next year I received the normal
package.)

Bill
 
M

Mark Bole

Bill said:
(e-mail address removed) (jack) posted:
[...]
So, if you used a professional who filed paper,
you DO NOT get an estimated form from the
IRS.
I still don't see where use of a paid preparer (one who has to sign the
return) is of any relevance. It's paper vs. e-filing, AFAIK.

And incidentally, the major commercial players for individual tax prep
have all decided to no longer charge extra e-filing fees. If you use
software for your return prep, whether self-prepared or by a volunteer
or a paid preparer, the last major excuse for not e-filing has now been
eliminated.


What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve? What do you want
to know beyond what is clearly stated on page 1 of the 2008 Form 1040-ES
instructions?
And incidentally, once the TP goes back to filing their own return, they
will start receiving forms again. (And my source for that is my own
experience.
The past is no guarantee of the future.

-Mark Bole
 
D

Dan Lanciani

| Bill wrote:
| > (e-mail address removed) (jack) posted:
| >
| >>> The specific answer to your last question, "if
| >>> you used a professional who filed paper ..."
|
| [...]
|
| >> So, if you used a professional who filed paper,
| >> you DO NOT get an estimated form from the
| >> IRS.
|
| I still don't see where use of a paid preparer (one who has to sign the
| return) is of any relevance. It's paper vs. e-filing, AFAIK.

I've never e-filed or used a preparer and they still stopped sending
me estimated tax forms...

Dan Lanciani
[email protected]*com
 
S

scott s.

And incidentally, the major commercial players for individual tax
prep have all decided to no longer charge extra e-filing fees. If
you use software for your return prep, whether self-prepared or by a
volunteer or a paid preparer, the last major excuse for not e-filing
has now been eliminated.
I won't send my return through a third party, but maybe that is not
considered a "major excuse".

scott s.
...
 
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H

Harlan Lunsford

Bill said:
(e-mail address removed) (Paul Thomas, CPA) posted:




Indeed, I agree as to your function and your allegiance. But (and maybe
I should have added this) _in the mind of the IRS_, you are "generally"
acting as an _agent_, since you assist taxpayers in complying with
filing requirements.

FWIW, I'm a volunteer preparer with TaxAide, and I certainly feel my
commitment is to assist the folks who come to me for help, but I also
know the IRS considers all TaxAide people as "instruments of their
purpose" to ensure full and faithful compliance with their regulations.

I know that, because IRS instructors have stated as much. That's why
they support us with training and materials.

Bill
Okay, I think you saved the day, Bill.

But we Enrolled Agents, EA's, want to make darn sure the public knows
the difference, as I'm sure you do.

So for any laymen reading this, there are "agents", and then there are
"Enrolled Agents" (EA's). Any one can be an agent for another, whether
serving under a power of attorney or in other cases. In this respect,
volunteers for AARP, TaxAide, etc etc serve as "agents" of the IRS to
insure compliance.

As an EA however, I am ONLY an agent of the taxpayer/client and licensed
as such by the IRS with conduct governed by the U S Treasury under
certain regulations known as Circular 230.

Hope this helps to keep things straight.

Actually we EA's have been batting this gamecock around for years now,
arguing time to time for other possible designations that would make
sure the public doesn't somehow mistake us for "agents" OF the IRS.
But no one can come up with a generally accepted agent position (GAAP!)
or definition.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

But an Enrolled Agent
 
H

Harlan Lunsford

Unless you use tax software to do it. In my own case I naturally use my
office software to prepare my own return and I, too, was deleted from
the 1040es mailings. So that is how I surmised is wasn't dependent on
using a paid preparer, or even a volunteer preparer e.g. AARP, but
instead tax software. I suppose if I download blank 1040ES forms and
resume hand printing same for my quarterly payments, I might regain the
status of being on their mailing list.

Anyway, for clients who noticed this last year, I calmly explained to
them that the reason they didn't receive printed vouchers was that IRS
had placed them in the "FOH" status.
Huh? FOH?
Sure, I explained; Friend of Harlan.
The past is no guarantee of the future.
Ain't that the truth! (as I return from vacation and reluctantly update
my retirement accounts' spreadsheet.)

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
 
H

Harlan Lunsford

Dan said:
| Bill wrote:
| > (e-mail address removed) (jack) posted:
| >
| >>> The specific answer to your last question, "if
| >>> you used a professional who filed paper ..."
|
| [...]
|
| >> So, if you used a professional who filed paper,
| >> you DO NOT get an estimated form from the
| >> IRS.
|
| I still don't see where use of a paid preparer (one who has to sign the
| return) is of any relevance. It's paper vs. e-filing, AFAIK.

I've never e-filed or used a preparer and they still stopped sending
me estimated tax forms...
But you did use tax softare, right?

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
 
A

Arthur Kamlet

Ain't that the truth! (as I return from vacation and reluctantly update
my retirement accounts' spreadsheet.)

And welcome home, World Traveller. I'll bet ouzo doesn't compare
to scotch.
 
D

Dan Lanciani

| Dan Lanciani wrote:
| > | Bill wrote:
| > | > (e-mail address removed) (jack) posted:
| > | >
| > | >>> The specific answer to your last question, "if
| > | >>> you used a professional who filed paper ..."
| > |
| > | [...]
| > |
| > | >> So, if you used a professional who filed paper,
| > | >> you DO NOT get an estimated form from the
| > | >> IRS.
| > |
| > | I still don't see where use of a paid preparer (one who has to sign the
| > | return) is of any relevance. It's paper vs. e-filing, AFAIK.
| >
| > I've never e-filed or used a preparer and they still stopped sending
| > me estimated tax forms...
|
| But you did use tax softare, right?

No, just my Uniball pen and a non-programmable TI calculator
from the 70's.

Dan Lanciani
[email protected]*com
 
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D

Don Priebe

And welcome home, World Traveller. I'll bet ouzo doesn't compare
to scotch.
It's a toss up as long as you drink both of them straight.

[Required tax content] and pay the use tax on them when you bring them home.
 
D

Dick Adams

It's a toss up as long as you drink both of them straight.

[Required tax content] and pay the use tax on them when you
bring them home.
It never occurred to me that purchases made at a duty-free
store were subject to use tax.

Dick
 
D

Don Priebe

It never occurred to me that purchases made at a duty-free
store were subject to use tax.
Don't know about your state, but NY wants its cut. You bought it without
paying sales tax and brought it into the state.

(Unless of course you're talking about cigarettes from the reservation smoke
shop. We don't try very hard to collect those taxes.
<nudge><nudge><wink><wink>)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/nyregion/02smoke.html
 
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K

Katie

Don Priebe said:
It's a toss up as long as you drink both of them straight.
[Required tax content] and pay the use tax on them when you
bring them home.
It never occurred to me that purchases made at a duty-free
store were subject to use tax.

Purchases at duty-free shops are presumed to be purchased for use in a
foreign country -- since in order to buy duty and tax free, you must
be leaving the US, generally for at least 48 hours. If you bring your
purchases back to your home state on your return to the US for use
there, you're generally subject to the use tax, since you didn't pay
sales tax on the original purchase.

The duty-free stores generally won't tell you that.

Katie
 

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