First Tier Tribunal decision notice.


N

Niteawk

From de soshall seecurety.

The appeal is allowed. Hurrah, thats the good news.

The bad news is, it comes with the "work related activity component" The
question is, where or who do I appeal to. The DWP? or against the tribunals
decision.

It is a bit of a conundrum you see, to appeal against a decision that is
allowed.
 
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J

JNugent

Niteawk said:
From de soshall seecurety.
The appeal is allowed. Hurrah, thats the good news.
The bad news is, it comes with the "work related activity component" The
question is, where or who do I appeal to. The DWP? or against the
tribunals decision.
It is a bit of a conundrum you see, to appeal against a decision that is
allowed.
Why *is* it a dilemma (which I sense to be the word you were searching for
but could not find)?

Too much like double or quits?
 
R

Robbie

Niteawk said:
From de soshall seecurety.

The appeal is allowed. Hurrah, thats the good news.

The bad news is, it comes with the "work related activity component" The
question is, where or who do I appeal to. The DWP? or against the
tribunals decision.

It is a bit of a conundrum you see, to appeal against a decision that is
allowed.
Go see the CAB, they have experience with appealing against this sort of
thing.
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
Go see the CAB, they have experience with appealing against this sort of
thing.

You think I have not done that already! anyway its all new to them, so they
do not know what to do about it. I dont suppose the DWP knows either. It
looks like I am the first person to go down this route, if I can find a
route that is.
 
R

Robbie

Niteawk said:
You think I have not done that already! anyway its all new to them, so
they do not know what to do about it. I dont suppose the DWP knows
either. It looks like I am the first person to go down this route, if I
can find a route that is.
I wouldn't have thought you were the first by a country mile. Lots of
people have won on appeal and I'm sure some of them have then appealed
against the decision to be placed in the work activity group.

Wait until your papers arrive back at the DWP and then wait for the
decision to award you the work related activity component - which will
still have to be made by a Decision Maker even if the tribunal have
sanctioned it if only to get the component in payment - and then appeal
against that decision. I'm sure it's as straightforward as that and I'm
surprised the CAB don't know what to do. ESA has been in existence for
16 months now and appeals have been getting heard for at least the last
12 months.
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
I wouldn't have thought you were the first by a country mile. Lots of
people have won on appeal and I'm sure some of them have then appealed
against the decision to be placed in the work activity group.

Wait until your papers arrive back at the DWP and then wait for the
decision to award you the work related activity component - which will
still have to be made by a Decision Maker even if the tribunal have
sanctioned it if only to get the component in payment - and then appeal
against that decision. I'm sure it's as straightforward as that and

I still dont know what a component is, or what it means in relation to ESA.
Wait and see sounds like my best bet.


I'm
surprised the CAB don't know what to do. ESA has been in existence for 16
months now and appeals have been getting heard for at least the last 12
months.
There you go, not many people in my area you see.They should have access to
info from other CAB's who have dealt with cases like mine, assuming they
share info that is.
 
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H

Harry Stottle

Niteawk said:
I still dont know what a component is, or what it means in relation to
ESA. Wait and see sounds like my best bet.
A quick Google produced the following, so it looks like a pay rise, but you
have got to work for it :)

Work Related Activity Group
If you are placed in the Work Related Activity Group, you will be expected
to take part in work focused interviews with your personal adviser. You will
get support to help you prepare for suitable work.

In return, you will receive a work related activity component in addition to
your basic rate.

Taken from:-
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/FinancialSupport/esa/DG_171894
 
R

Robbie

I still dont know what a component is, or what it means in relation to
ESA. Wait and see sounds like my best bet.


I'm

There you go, not many people in my area you see.They should have access
to info from other CAB's who have dealt with cases like mine, assuming
they share info that is.
Actually the two components of ESA seem to just be the Contributions
Based ESA and the Income Related ESA.

When I was referring to a "component" of ESA what I meant was the group
you are placed in in the main phase of ESA (ie the Support Group or the
Work Related Activity group). I was getting myself a bit mixed up there.

See:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/FinancialSupport/esa/DG_171894

Depending on which group you are placed in you will get one of two
additional amounts paid in addition to the basic ESA rate. For those in
the Work Related Activity Group it is £25.50 per week (ie your ESA will
be £89.80 per week). For those in the Support Group it is £30.85 per
week (ie ESA is £95.15 per week).

The Support Group is intended to be very difficult to be placed into -
the expectation was that less than 20% of all claims will fall into this
group, many people in the group being severally disabled or terminally
ill. The others in that group are those who have had the WCA and are
assessed as having limited capability for work related activity. Those
who are assessed as not having a limited capability for work related
activity are placed in, as the name would suggest, the Work Related
Activity Group. This is where the person attends a series of work
focussed meetings, as you can see at the above link.
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
Actually the two components of ESA seem to just be the Contributions Based
ESA and the Income Related ESA.

When I was referring to a "component" of ESA what I meant was the group
you are placed in in the main phase of ESA (ie the Support Group or the
Work Related Activity group). I was getting myself a bit mixed up there.

See:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/FinancialSupport/esa/DG_171894

Depending on which group you are placed in you will get one of two
additional amounts paid in addition to the basic ESA rate. For those in
the Work Related Activity Group it is £25.50 per week (ie your ESA will be
£89.80 per week). For those in the Support Group it is £30.85 per week (ie
ESA is £95.15 per week).
That sounds good, even better if it is backdated. I might be able to afford
heating AND food.

The Support Group is intended to be very difficult to be placed into - the
expectation was that less than 20% of all claims will fall into this
group, many people in the group being severally disabled or terminally
ill. The others in that group are those who have had the WCA and are
assessed as having limited capability for work related activity. Those who
are assessed as not having a limited capability for work related activity
are placed in, as the name would suggest, the Work Related Activity Group.
This is where the person attends a series of work focussed meetings, as
you can see at the above link.
Right, I think I know what it is about now. They will do a WCA to decide
which group I should attend. But the tribunal put me in the Work Related
Activity Group..........If the WRAG decide I am not capable of work at the
moment, can or will they send me to the Support Group? If that is how the
system works, I might as well sit back and let it happen.
 
N

Niteawk

Harry Stottle said:
A quick Google produced the following, so it looks like a pay rise, but
you have got to work for it :)

Work Related Activity Group
If you are placed in the Work Related Activity Group, you will be expected
to take part in work focused interviews with your personal adviser. You
will get support to help you prepare for suitable work.
Oh dear, this does not sound good.


In return, you will receive a work related activity component in addition
to your basic rate.
TBH, if it meant I did not have to see a PA again, I would rather they kept
the component. Basic ESA will do me.
 
R

Robbie

Oh dear, this does not sound good.




TBH, if it meant I did not have to see a PA again, I would rather they
kept the component. Basic ESA will do me.
Not possible. You have to go into one of the two groups. Basic ESA is
only payable during the assessment phase which you are no longer in.
 
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R

Robbie

That sounds good, even better if it is backdated. I might be able to
afford heating AND food.



Right, I think I know what it is about now. They will do a WCA
You've had your WCA, it's the bit where you saw the examining medical
practitioner.

to decide
which group I should attend. But the tribunal put me in the Work Related
Activity Group..........If the WRAG decide I am not capable of work at
the moment, can or will they send me to the Support Group?
You'll have to go through the series of work focussed interviews first.
If the advisor thinks you really aren't able to work then I believe you
can be referred for a health assessment. Don't quote me on that though.

If that is
how the system works, I might as well sit back and let it happen.
Well you'll have to attend any meetings that you are asked to attend.
think of that part as being like JSA but without the absolute compulsion
to have to do a great deal once you are there...
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
You've had your WCA, it's the bit where you saw the examining medical
practitioner.
Oh yes, I remember that alright, the medical report. Then a DM with no
medical experience or qualifications, comes along and over rules the DWP's
medical expert.

to decide

You'll have to go through the series of work focussed interviews first. If
the advisor thinks you really aren't able to work then I believe you can
be referred for a health assessment. Don't quote me on that though.
I will let you know what happens, I dont think they will put me in the SG,
that would be helpful.

If that is

Well you'll have to attend any meetings that you are asked to attend.
think of that part as being like JSA but without the absolute compulsion
to have to do a great deal once you are there...
Thanks Robbie, at least I know what to expect now, I assume they wont
threaten me with sanctions if I say I cant do a particular job. No JSAg, so
it might not be that bad.
 
R

Robbie

Niteawk said:
Oh yes, I remember that alright, the medical report. Then a DM with no
medical experience or qualifications, comes along and over rules the
DWP's medical expert.



I will let you know what happens, I dont think they will put me in the
SG, that would be helpful.



Thanks Robbie, at least I know what to expect now, I assume they wont
threaten me with sanctions if I say I cant do a particular job. No JSAg,
so it might not be that bad.
Your ESA can be affected if you don't play ball but in the first
instance that means you have to turn up to the work focussed meetings.
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
Your ESA can be affected if you don't play ball but in the first instance
that means you have to turn up to the work focussed meetings.
Thats the problem with illness, you have good days and bad days. I might be
able to turn up, then again I might not. And if they sanction me for that, I
sure there is a right to appeal against it. I cant see the DWP winning that
particular argument.

"How do we know you were ill on that day?" "Well there is the small matter
of various medical reports to consider from my own GP and 2 NHS specalists,
and I was signed off by two DWP GP's", one of them being a tribunal judge at
a previous hearing. If they are wrong, then I am guilty.
 
M

mart2306

Thats the problem with illness, you have good days and bad days. I might be
able to turn up, then again I might not. And if they sanction me for that, I
sure there is a right to appeal against it. I cant see the DWP winning that
particular argument.

"How do we know you were ill on that day?" "Well there is the small matter
of various medical reports to consider from my own GP and 2 NHS specalists,
and I was signed off by two DWP GP's", one of them being a tribunal judge at
a previous hearing. If they are wrong, then I am guilty.
Any medical reports won't say anything about that day.
And as you say, you have good days and bad days.....

What, on the balance of probabilities, is any day with a work focussed
meeting going to be like....?

Martin <><
 
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N

Niteawk

Any medical reports won't say anything about that day.
And as you say, you have good days and bad days.....

What, on the balance of probabilities, is any day with a work focussed
meeting going to be like....?
I dont know, cloudy with a slight north easterly breeze.
 

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