'flexible' new deal


J

Jason

I went to the job centre yesterday and because I've been unemployed
for over a year I was seen by a 'special advisor'. She then informed
me that I would be subject to 'flexible new deal', a new government
initiative. This would involve seeing her for the next few months and
then, if I was still unemployed, being referred to a private company
who would spend up to twelve months trying to help me find a job...

"If you are still unemployed after twelve months" she said, "all your
benefits will be stopped."

"What?" I said, "You mean anyone unemployed for more than two years
will be left with no money to live on? How are they supposed to
survive?

"I've seen a lot of people and they're not very happy about it, but
it's the government, that's what they've decided" she said.

"Can people at least start to reclaim benefits again after a certain
amount of time?" I asked.

"No" she said, "not until after you've had another period of
employment..."
_

This can't be true, can it?

I haven't been able to find much on the web of any use apart from the
original government white paper which doesn't say anything about
withdrawing benefits from the long term unemployed.

I'm wondering if perhaps my 'special advisor' has been been
purposefully misleading me, thinking perhaps that the fear of being
totally destitute will make me 'look harder' to get a job. Possibly
she was just ignorant, but there was a certain amount of body language
when she was answering my questions which, in retrospect, makes me
think she knew she was lying.

In which case, what should I do? Do I have grounds for making an
official complaint? Would it be any use? Or would it be better just to
keep my head down, rather than possibly become known as a trouble
maker?
 
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M

mart2306

I went to the job centre yesterday and because I've been unemployed
for over a year I was seen by a 'special advisor'. She then informed
me that I would be subject to 'flexible new deal', a new government
initiative. This would involve seeing her for the next few months and
then, if I was still unemployed, being referred to a private company
who would spend up to twelve months trying to help me find a job...

"If you are still unemployed after twelve months" she said, "all your
benefits will be stopped."

"What?" I said, "You mean anyone unemployed for more than two years
will be left with no money to live on? How are they supposed to
survive?

"I've seen a lot of people and they're not very happy about it, but
it's the government, that's what they've decided" she said.

"Can people at least start to reclaim benefits again after a certain
amount of time?" I asked.

"No" she said, "not until after you've had another period of
employment..."
_

This can't be true, can it?

I haven't been able to find much on the web of any use apart from the
original government white paper which doesn't say anything about
withdrawing benefits from the long term unemployed.

I'm wondering if perhaps my 'special advisor' has been been
purposefully misleading me, thinking perhaps that the fear of being
totally destitute will make me 'look harder' to get a job. Possibly
she was just ignorant, but there was a certain amount of body language
when she was answering my questions which, in retrospect, makes me
think she knew she was lying.

In which case, what should I do? Do I have grounds for making an
official complaint? Would it be any use? Or would it be better just to
keep my head down, rather than possibly become known as a trouble
maker?
Flexible New Deal starts officially in October. So they can't
officially refer you yet - though its something of a postcode lottery
as to what provider will be offering services in your area.
I've heard talk for years about stopping benefits for unemployed,
hadn't heard it was coming in so quickly. So not sure if she's making
that up or not.

Martin <><
 
G

gazz

so take a really shitty job that pays less than benefits, you know the ones
that are apparantly always in the job centre but no one in their right mind
will take them, get the sack on the first day, and start the process again?

i'm not being helpfull am i :)
 
F

Farcry

Stop benefits? tell you what why dont the make not having a job a criminal
offence and lock us all up free food free room no bills to pay prison job
sounds fucking fantastic where do i sign up:)
 
C

Clive Martin

In message
I went to the job centre yesterday and because I've been unemployed
for over a year I was seen by a 'special advisor'. She then informed
me that I would be subject to 'flexible new deal', a new government
initiative. This would involve seeing her for the next few months and
then, if I was still unemployed, being referred to a private company
who would spend up to twelve months trying to help me find a job...

"If you are still unemployed after twelve months" she said, "all your
benefits will be stopped."

"What?" I said, "You mean anyone unemployed for more than two years
will be left with no money to live on? How are they supposed to
survive?

"I've seen a lot of people and they're not very happy about it, but
it's the government, that's what they've decided" she said.

"Can people at least start to reclaim benefits again after a certain
amount of time?" I asked.

"No" she said, "not until after you've had another period of
employment..."
_

This can't be true, can it?
No, it isn't.
I haven't been able to find much on the web of any use apart from the
original government white paper which doesn't say anything about
withdrawing benefits from the long term unemployed.
The "Flexible New Deal" does involve further tightening of the rules
around sanctions.

See:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/uksi_20090480_en_1
I'm wondering if perhaps my 'special advisor' has been been
purposefully misleading me, thinking perhaps that the fear of being
totally destitute will make me 'look harder' to get a job. Possibly
she was just ignorant, but there was a certain amount of body language
when she was answering my questions which, in retrospect, makes me
think she knew she was lying.
Do you receive help with mortgage interest costs as well as income-based
JSA? Since Jan 2009 this help has been time-limited to a maximum of 2
years. I wonder if she may have been referring to this, or
misunderstanding this.

Clive
 
N

Niteawk

Jason said:
I went to the job centre yesterday and because I've been unemployed
for over a year I was seen by a 'special advisor'. She then informed
me that I would be subject to 'flexible new deal', a new government
initiative. This would involve seeing her for the next few months and
then, if I was still unemployed, being referred to a private company
who would spend up to twelve months trying to help me find a job...
I heard this was coming on my last visit to A4e, the unemployed will now be
sentenced to 12 months imprisonment instead of the usual 6.



"If you are still unemployed after twelve months" she said, "all your
benefits will be stopped."
No matter what they say, they cant leave people without money to live on.




"What?" I said, "You mean anyone unemployed for more than two years
will be left with no money to live on? How are they supposed to
survive?

"I've seen a lot of people and they're not very happy about it, but
it's the government, that's what they've decided" she said.

"Can people at least start to reclaim benefits again after a certain
amount of time?" I asked.

"No" she said, "not until after you've had another period of
employment..."
_

This can't be true, can it?
You shouldnt take any notice of what some tick box monkey tells you. They
always exaggerate. If you want to know more about rules and regs, see the
CAB.


I haven't been able to find much on the web of any use apart from the
original government white paper which doesn't say anything about
withdrawing benefits from the long term unemployed.

I'm wondering if perhaps my 'special advisor' has been been
purposefully misleading me, thinking perhaps that the fear of being
totally destitute will make me 'look harder' to get a job. Possibly
she was just ignorant, but there was a certain amount of body language
when she was answering my questions which, in retrospect, makes me
think she knew she was lying.
The way to catch them out is ask for the leaflets that show the rules to
which they are making reference to. You sign a document stating that you
fully understand the regs when claiming JSA. They must provide you with that
information in writing if it applies to you ;)

In which case, what should I do? Do I have grounds for making an
official complaint? Would it be any use? Or would it be better just to
keep my head down, rather than possibly become known as a trouble
maker?

Yes you can complain about the way they do things to your MP, the ombudsman,
the manager of the JC. The only time I find the need to complain is when
they stop my money, which is about every 5 minutes at the moment. I always
win in the end on the principal that they cant leave me without money to
live on, no matter what the **** they do. They have to pay. If its good
enough for Abu Hamsa, its good enough for me.
 
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N

Niteawk

Farcry said:
Stop benefits? tell you what why dont the make not having a job a criminal
offence and lock us all up free food free room no bills to pay prison job
sounds fucking fantastic where do i sign up:)
It is a criminal offence. Failure to attend will result in a penalty, ie
loss of benefit for 2, 4 or 26 weeks. If that happens you must claim
Hardship payment, you will immediately lose 2 weeks JSA, on the 3rd week you
qualify for HS. To do this you must prove to the silly cunts that your
health and wellbeing will be at risk if you have no money to buy food and
pay bills. Incredible but true. Naturally you will appeal against this at
tribunal. Use form GL24 and deliver by hand to the JC. See the CAB for
further advice.
 
M

mart2306

It is a criminal offence. Failure to attend will result in a penalty, ie
loss of benefit for 2, 4 or 26 weeks. If that happens you must claim
Hardship payment, you will immediately lose 2 weeks JSA, on the 3rd week you
qualify for HS. To do this you must prove to the silly cunts that your
health and wellbeing will be at risk if you have no money to buy food and
pay bills. Incredible but true. Naturally you will appeal against this at
tribunal. Use form GL24 and deliver by hand to the JC. See the CAB for
further advice.
Ah, so they can leave people with no money to live on. For a period of
time.
Proving hardship is another matter - not everyone manages to do that.

Martin <><
 
R

Robbie

Ah, so they can leave people with no money to live on. For a period of
time.
Proving hardship is another matter - not everyone manages to do that.

Martin <><
People living alone can usually do this quite easily whilst someone
living with parents may find it more difficult though the DWP then look
at whether the parents themselves are on benefit. If they are in work
then it is harder to prove short term hardship and in these cases
hardship payments can and are often refused..
 
C

Clive Martin

Robbie said:
People living alone can usually do this quite easily whilst someone
living with parents may find it more difficult though the DWP then look
at whether the parents themselves are on benefit. If they are in work
then it is harder to prove short term hardship and in these cases
hardship payments can and are often refused..
"Where a jobseeker's allowance is not payable to a person as a result of
an act or omission relating to their participation in the Flexible New
Deal or as the result of a failure to take part in a Back to Work
Session when directed to do so, these Regulations amend the
Jobseeker’s Allowance Regulations to provide that the person shall not
be a person in hardship (see regulation 2(8) and (10)). Where the
sanction relates to the Flexible New Deal, they also amend those
Regulations to prescribe the period during which a person shall not be a
person in hardship (see regulation 2(9) and (11)). The effect of these
amendments is that the allowance that would otherwise be available to a
person in hardship is not available to a person who is subject to a
sanction during the period they are required to take part in the
Flexible New Deal or for 14 days, whichever is the longer."

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/uksi_20090480_en_2

Clive
 
R

Robbie

Clive said:
"Where a jobseeker's allowance is not payable to a person as a result of
an act or omission relating to their participation in the Flexible New
Deal or as the result of a failure to take part in a Back to Work
Session when directed to do so, these Regulations amend the Jobseeker’s
Allowance Regulations to provide that the person shall not be a person
in hardship (see regulation 2(8) and (10)). Where the sanction relates
to the Flexible New Deal, they also amend those Regulations to prescribe
the period during which a person shall not be a person in hardship (see
regulation 2(9) and (11)). The effect of these amendments is that the
allowance that would otherwise be available to a person in hardship is
not available to a person who is subject to a sanction during the period
they are required to take part in the Flexible New Deal or for 14 days,
whichever is the longer."

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/uksi_20090480_en_2

Clive
That's from later in the year though? October 5, according to the S.I.
 
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M

mart2306

That's from later in the year though? October 5, according to the S.I.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Well, it was origionally (Spring last year) envisaged as October this
year start.
But the results were supposed to be given for the bidding in January,
based on bids submitted in November.
Results were given last month. Quite a delay, and the employment
landscape has changed somewhat in the past 12 months - which added to
the delay when it became a political problem.

So October is the theoretical start date, not sure it will be the
actual start date with the delays. Taking 5 months extra for a
decision then expecting providers to do what they have to do in just 3
months rather than the expected 8 months strikes me as a bit daft.
But we shall see.

Martin <><
 
F

Farcry

Robbie said:
People living alone can usually do this quite easily whilst someone living
with parents may find it more difficult though the DWP then look at
whether the parents themselves are on benefit. If they are in work then it
is harder to prove short term hardship and in these cases hardship
payments can and are often refused..

Just out of interest how much are the hardship payments ? and how do you
claim it couldn't find any forms online is it done by phone to the job
centre plus ? like a claim for normal jsa


TIA.
 
N

Niteawk

Farcry said:
Just out of interest how much are the hardship payments ? and how do you
claim it couldn't find any forms online is it done by phone to the job
centre plus ? like a claim for normal jsa
You can ring 0800 731 9091, I know they will give you a one off loan, maybe
they cover the lot. The best way is Fill in Form GL24 and hand it to the
manager re your appeal, then say you want to claim H.P to cover the sanction
period, she should give you the form for this. Fill that in as well, job
done.
 
R

Robbie

Farcry said:
Just out of interest how much are the hardship payments ? and how do you
claim it couldn't find any forms online is it done by phone to the job
centre plus ? like a claim for normal jsa


TIA.
The usual rate for a Hardship Payment is 60% of the JSA rate or 80% if
someone in the family is pregnant or seriously ill.

There's no online forms as far as I am aware, it has to be done either
via the office or over the phone depending on local arrangements.
 
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S

scoff12

I went to the job centre yesterday and because I've been unemployed
for over a year I was seen by a 'special advisor'. She then informed
me that I would be subject to 'flexible new deal', a new government
initiative. This would involve seeing her for the next few months and
then, if I was still unemployed, being referred to a private company
who would spend up to twelve months trying to help me find a job...

"If you are still unemployed after twelve months" she said, "all your
benefits will be stopped."

"What?" I said, "You mean anyone unemployed for more than two years
will be left with no money to live on? How are they supposed to
survive?

"I've seen a lot of people and they're not very happy about it, but
it's the government, that's what they've decided" she said.

"Can people at least start to reclaim benefits again after a certain
amount of time?" I asked.

"No" she said, "not until after you've had another period of
employment..."
_

This can't be true, can it?

I haven't been able to find much on the web of any use apart from the
original government white paper which doesn't say anything about
withdrawing benefits from the long term unemployed.

I'm wondering if perhaps my 'special advisor' has been been
purposefully misleading me, thinking perhaps that the fear of being
totally destitute will make me 'look harder' to get a job. Possibly
she was just ignorant, but there was a certain amount of body language
when she was answering my questions which, in retrospect, makes me
think she knew she was lying.

In which case, what should I do? Do I have grounds for making an
official complaint? Would it be any use? Or would it be better just to
keep my head down, rather than possibly become known as a trouble
maker?
I guess this has already been dealt with but jobseekers allowance
cannot be stopped simply because you have been unemployed for X amount
of time. It can be stopped if a jobseekers does not co-operate with
New Deal etc, does not apply for jobs told to apply for or does
something at interview to put an employer off employing him.
 
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