Have I paid enough National Insurance?


F

freecycle

I've been in full time work from 21 to 58 without a break.
Is there a point past which I've paid enough NI and
can stop paying it?
FC
 
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N

Norman Wells

freecycle said:
I've been in full time work from 21 to 58 without a break.
Is there a point past which I've paid enough NI and
can stop paying it?
You can try.

You can also complain that you've paid quite enough income tax and VAT too.

Let us know if you succeed.
 
L

LSR

freecycle said:
I've been in full time work from 21 to 58 without a break.
Is there a point past which I've paid enough NI and
can stop paying it?
FC
ps You can't stop paying NI contributions (assuming you're earning over the
lower limit), but you could stop working in 2010 and not affect your
pension.
 
F

freecycle

You can try.
You can also complain that you've paid quite enough income tax and VAT too..
I thought 'irony' was how you got creases out of shirts till I read
this group
Let us know if you succeed.
I gather you don't think I will.
 
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R

rich

I've been in full time work from 21 to 58 without a break.
Is there a point past which I've paid enough NI and
can stop paying it?
FC
You used to be able to get a pension forecast but a quick look shows its
not as easy as it used to be. Still worth a try, grab the form and write.
see:
http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/resourcecentre/br19/home.asp#3

Quick look at my forecast and you need 44 qualifying years for a full
pension, so you have 37. Once you get to 60 and are not working they will
credit these years up to age 65. You might be a couple of years short. It
is possible to pay shortfalls and they should tell you so.
get the "understanding..." booklet
http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/pdf/br19/br19lapr08.pdf
 
N

Norman Wells

rich said:
You used to be able to get a pension forecast but a quick look shows
its not as easy as it used to be. Still worth a try, grab the form
and write. see:
http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/resourcecentre/br19/home.asp#3

Quick look at my forecast and you need 44 qualifying years for a full
pension, so you have 37. Once you get to 60 and are not working they
will credit these years up to age 65. You might be a couple of years
short. It is possible to pay shortfalls and they should tell you so.
get the "understanding..." booklet
http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/pdf/br19/br19lapr08.pdf
This is wrong. 30 years of contributions will very shortly entitle the OP
to a full pension.
 
G

GSV Three Minds in a Can

from the wonderful said:
This is wrong. 30 years of contributions will very shortly entitle the
OP to a full pension.
Recent change though! .. actually DWP have been sending out notices with
their requests for voluntary contribs advising people to not make them
...
 
J

judith

You can try.

You can also complain that you've paid quite enough income tax and VAT too.

Let us know if you succeed.

Usual unhelpful post from Norman.

It is possible - you can contact the Pensions Department and they will
tell you exactly - I have found them very helpful.

I think that you need 44 years qualifying for a full pension - but I
am not sure.

(You can pay additional contributions to bring it up to the required
level. My partner did this and the amount paid as voluntary
contributions in two years will be totally recovered in the first two
years of pension)
 
T

Tim

freecycle said:
Usual unhelpful post from Norman.

It is possible - you can contact the Pensions Department
and they will tell you exactly - I have found them very helpful.
But why would anyone decide to stop working, just because
they'd amassed enough NI years? You can't stop paying
NI if you're still earning over the relevant (low) limit, even if
you have reached the required number of qualifying years!


I think that you need 44 years qualifying
for a full pension - but I am not sure.
It depends on whether you're male or female and on when you retire...
 
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R

Ronald Raygun

Tim said:
But why would anyone decide to stop working, just because
they'd amassed enough NI years?
They might not need the income.
You can't stop paying
NI if you're still earning over the relevant (low) limit, even if
you have reached the required number of qualifying years!
Actually, you can, by moving to a situation of having several part
time jobs and earning (just) under the limit from each of them.

Unlike with income tax, the NI threshold applies per employment,
though unfortunately not per self-employment.
 
T

Tim

Tim said:
They might not need the income.
But if they didn't need the income, then they could stop
working *before* they'd reached sufficient NI qualifying years!

Why wait *then* stop? [Don't forget, if they "don't need
the income", then they wouldn't need the BSP either.]
Actually, you can, ...
Oh no you can't!

... by moving to a situation of having several part time
jobs and earning (just) under the limit from each of them.
In which case, you would NOT be "over the
RELEVANT ... limit", so my comment still stands.

Unlike with income tax, the NI threshold applies per
employment, though unfortunately not per self-employment.
Of course.
 
N

Norman Wells

judith said:
Usual unhelpful post from Norman.

It is possible - you can contact the Pensions Department and they will
tell you exactly - I have found them very helpful.
Wrong. It's not possible. If you work, you pay NI.
I think that you need 44 years qualifying for a full pension - but I
am not sure.
Wrong. The OP will require 30 years.
(You can pay additional contributions to bring it up to the required
level. My partner did this and the amount paid as voluntary
contributions in two years will be totally recovered in the first two
years of pension)
Then he's a fool. If he'll have 30 years contributions anyway, he's wasted
his money completely.

So, two wrongs and an example of stupidity. How helpful is that?
 
N

Norman Wells

judith said:
I believe that it is also cheaper to pay self-employed contributions
rather than voluntary.

ie if you are short of contributions - register as self-employed -
and pay the cheaper contributions.
Usual appalling advice from Judith based on a lack of understanding.

He won't be short of contributions.
 
T

tims next home

Norman Wells said:
Wrong. It's not possible. If you work, you pay NI.


Wrong. The OP will require 30 years.
Only for those retiring after 2011 (I think)
Then he's a fool.
Not if he paid the money before the proposals to lower the number of years
required. No-one in 1999 could have know that they should't make up any
shortfall.

tim
 
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R

Ronald Raygun

Tim said:
"Ronald Raygun" wrote
They might not need the income.
But if they didn't need the income, then they could stop
working *before* they'd reached sufficient NI qualifying years!

Why wait *then* stop? [Don't forget, if they "don't need
the income", then they wouldn't need the BSP either.]
They might be paired up with someone. Their joint requirement
for income might be completely satisfied if only one of them
works, but once that person retires, a second BSP might come
in handy.
Oh no you can't!
Oh yes you can!
In which case, you would NOT be "over the
RELEVANT ... limit", so my comment still stands.
Not entirely. I think what you had in mind when you wrote "the
relevant (low) limit" was £5k or thereabouts. You can avoid NI
if you earn well over that amount, because the relevant limit
for N contemporaneous part-time employments is N*£5k, but as N
approaches infinity that limit is no longer "low".

For present purposes we can consider infinity approached if N
exceeds two. :)
 
S

Simon

judith said:
I believe that it is also cheaper to pay self-employed contributions
rather than voluntary.

ie if you are short of contributions - register as self-employed -
and pay the cheaper contributions.
Thats not possible. You are either employed or self employed based on the
facts of the engagement, it is not a matter of choice.

It is possible to pursuade some employers to pay you as self employed then
they squeal like a stuck pig when HMRC review the circumstances of the
engagement and stick the employer with a huge bill for all the tax and NI
they should have deducted. Mind you, the worker is no longer imune as Reg 72
E to G now enables HMRC to stick this bill to the worker.
 
T

Tim

Tim said:
Tim said:
But if they didn't need the income, then they could stop
working *before* they'd reached sufficient NI qualifying years!

Why wait *then* stop? [Don't forget, if they "don't need
the income", then they wouldn't need the BSP either.]
"Ronald Raygun" wrote
They might be paired up with someone. Their
joint requirement for income might be completely
satisfied if only one of them works, but once that
person retires, a second BSP might come in handy.
But that second BSP wouldn't be paid until sometime
later, when the person finally reaches State Pension Age.
What is the couple going to do in the meantime?
Oh yes you can!
Oh no you can't!
Not entirely. I think what you had in mind when you
wrote "the relevant (low) limit" was £5k or thereabouts...
Of course (per employment).

... You can avoid NI if you earn well over that amount, because
the relevant limit for N contemporaneous part-time employments
is N*£5k, but as N approaches infinity that limit is no longer "low".
I wasn't considering totals, I was considering each individual
employment in turn. The deciding factor in whether
or not you pay NI is the *individual* employment's
earnings, not the total (as you've rightly pointed out) --
so it is inappropriate to consider accumulated earnings
across all employments. So that's a red herring!

For present purposes we can consider
infinity approached if N exceeds two. :)
That's the lowest number that I've ever
seen suggested to be close to infinity!
 
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R

Ronald Raygun

Tim said:
But that second BSP wouldn't be paid until sometime
later, when the person finally reaches State Pension Age.
This isn't necessarily later.
What is the couple going to do in the meantime?
There isn't necessarily a meantime.

One stops work when enough QYs are accumulated, the other
stops work when they have *both* reached SPA. If they're
lucky, the first to stop will reach SPA before the second,
otherwise the second just works a little beyond SPA.
Oh no you can't!


Of course (per employment).


I wasn't considering totals, I was considering each individual
employment in turn.
That's easy to say after the event!
The deciding factor in whether
or not you pay NI is the *individual* employment's
earnings, not the total (as you've rightly pointed out) --
so it is inappropriate to consider accumulated earnings
across all employments. So that's a red herring!
What you wrote was open to be interpreted otherwise than as
you intended. The "relevant limit" is £5k (qualified as "per
employment"), but the "relevant (low) limit" is £5k (unqualified).

It may be that you had intended to write "you can't stop paying
NI if your earnings per employment are over the relevant (low)
limit", but you didn't. You wrote "..if you're earning over..",
for which the obvious interpretation is "..if your total earnings
are over.."
That's the lowest number that I've ever
seen suggested to be close to infinity!
Yes, well, it's just extreme rounding. Anything above a half is
basically one, and anything below is basically zero. Hence
anything below/above 2 is basically 1 or infinite.
 

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