Impact of a Bad Job on Mental Health as Harmful as No Job at All


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N

Niteawk

I was watching a program on the beeb about women in prison, because
life on the outside was so crap most of them prefer to be in prison. I
think that sums up how bad things have got for people in todays
society when they would rather be in prison than face the daily
pressures of trying to survive on the outside.

If you want a house and a job and be well catered for, get locked up
and all your problems are solved. ;)
 
H

humble.life

Isn't this more a case of inclination lacking rather than time. Surely
we can all *make the time* if we really wanted to. I'm not saying it's
clinical in that they don't want to help, it's just we seem to have
forgotten how to help :(
i suspect everything is about hedonism and not wanting to be bummed out
secretly. i am lending kindness to my neglectful friends by assuming
they haven't got time. i know they are avoiders...
 
P

Pendragon

I was watching a program on the beeb about women in prison, because
life on the outside was so crap most of them prefer to be in prison. I
think that sums up how bad things have got for people in todays
society when they would rather be in prison than face the daily
pressures of trying to survive on the outside.

If you want a house and a job and be well catered for, get locked up
and all your problems are solved. ;)
Daft as it seems this is a viable solution for some. It is quite tough
being *responsible* for everything all the time and I'm sure may of us
have wanted to *run* and hide at times. Never thought of prison, might
give it a go next time. Trouble is it's almost impossible to get put
away these days, so smashing a window wont do it :)
 
H

humble.life

I was watching a program on the beeb about women in prison, because life
on the outside was so crap most of them prefer to be in prison. I think
that sums up how bad things have got for people in todays society when
they would rather be in prison than face the daily pressures of trying
to survive on the outside.

If you want a house and a job and be well catered for, get locked up and
all your problems are solved. ;)
we are what we practice, people are fooled into believing that these
things are genetic or a "gods gift", so they don't challenge themselves
i think.

quite often it's simply too late.
 
H

Harry Stottle

Niteawk said:
I was watching a program on the beeb about women in prison, because life
on the outside was so crap most of them prefer to be in prison. I think
that sums up how bad things have got for people in todays society when
they would rather be in prison than face the daily pressures of trying to
survive on the outside.
The above is not exactly a true reflection of the inmates, is it?
A high percentage of the women in there are drug addicts by their own
volition, and being locked up keeps them away from drugs, which some see as
a way of escaping from the drugs, (but a few still managed to get hold of
them when a new prisoner was admitted who was so confused, she had
mistakenly wrapped up some drugs and used them for a tampax). When they are
eventually released, a lot make the choice to go back on drugs, which then
leads them to more crime, and so back to prison, but it is their choice, not
society's.
 
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P

Pendragon

i suspect everything is about hedonism and not wanting to be bummed out
secretly. i am lending kindness to my neglectful friends by assuming
they haven't got time. i know they are avoiders...

I disagree. I think all people are inherently good, it's just to very
many of them ignorance really is bliss.

How many of us if we see an accident would instinctively hold back for
someone else to help, yet if we were *forced* (ie. no one else around)
to help we would get great satisfaction from that afterwards?

Have you perhaps sought online sources for these friends, and thence
help, be it a like minded forum like this, dating sites etc? I'm
pretty much a loner and very secure in myself, though I often get the
urge to *run*! Have found good solace in dating sites, which are not
always just for dating. I tend to prefer the company of the opposite
sex too, which I am sure means something :)
 
P

Pendragon

we are what we practice, people are fooled into believing that these
things are genetic or a "gods gift", so they don't challenge themselves
i think.
It's the *thinking* that can make life very complicated and difficult.
Some can't hack it.
 
P

Pendragon

The above is not exactly a true reflection of the inmates, is it?
A high percentage of the women in there are drug addicts by their own
volition, and being locked up keeps them away from drugs, which some see as
a way of escaping from the drugs, (but a few still managed to get hold of
them when a new prisoner was admitted who was so confused, she had
mistakenly wrapped up some drugs and used them for a tampax). When they are
eventually released, a lot make the choice to go back on drugs, which then
leads them to more crime, and so back to prison, but it is their choice, not
society's.
It is a choice at the end of the day but many cannot help the choice
they make.
 
M

mike

I quite agree with you 100%. What I am getting at is why it does this
to us. Rather it's how we perceive the job than what the job is
perhaps? If we just accepted a job is a job and left it at that would
we not be better off?


But in a society we have to live by certain rules and guidelines, and
that includes doing the menial tasks. I cant wait to run away from
society myself so I know where you are coming from. quit long ago :)


Attribute it to anything you like the principle is the same don't you
think?


No of course not, I hoped that would have been a given.
And there you have it, any useful or relevant point you have immediately
gets lost when you make any kind of comparison to Hitler.



Mike
 
P

Pendragon

And there you have it, any useful or relevant point you have immediately
gets lost when you make any kind of comparison to Hitler.
It shouldn't though unless you're just looking for trouble which I
suspect is the case in most instances. It's *work makes you free* that
is important, not Hitler. Would it really matter if I had said "Donald
Duck once said".... ? And why on earth should it, what does that
really say about us?
 
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H

Harry Stottle

Pendragon said:
It is a choice at the end of the day but many cannot help the choice
they make.
But prison proves, both to the drug users, and to others, that they can
survive and cope without drugs for as long as their sentence lasts, which
seems to undermine the reasoning that they cannot help the choice they make
when released.
 
P

Pendragon

But prison proves, both to the drug users, and to others, that they can
survive and cope without drugs for as long as their sentence lasts, which
seems to undermine the reasoning that they cannot help the choice they make
when released.
Yes but it's out of their control and so they live with it. Soon as
they have control, a control they obviously cannot handle, they slip
back again. Like addiction I guess.
 
7

727

.

------------------

[Several snippages]
I quite agree with you 100%. What I am getting at is why it does this
to us. Rather it's how we perceive the job than what the job is
perhaps? If we just accepted a job is a job and left it at that would
we not be better off?
Society, mainly. Man is a social animal, and the form of society we have
developed here puts a value on people largely by what job they do, so
much so that it causes many people to define themselves accordingly. Ask
a person what they do and it's a fair bet they'll tell you that they're
a teacher or electrician rather than that they're a loving father, a
Christian, a party animal or serial killer.

Of course it would be better if things were as you say. This would take
an unlikely societal shift.
Only if we have ideas above our station.
Who decides when one has achieved their station, their potential?
But in a society we have to live by certain rules and guidelines,
Of course with duties and expectations of and from society.
and that includes doing the menial tasks.
Any thesaurus gives synonyms of menial including lowly, base, degrading,
servile, dogsbody etc. While society sees these jobs and the people who
do them in this way (and it seems to me that it does) then it will often
sap a persons self respect and adverseley effect their self image to do
them.

It isn't an impossible change to make, the role of a 'stay at home
mother' has become more widely valued over the past two decades or so,
but we aren't even making baby steps in that direction.
I cant wait to run away from society myself so I know where you are
coming from. quit long ago :)
I don't think it's a willingness to run away, it's trying to overcome a
feeling of alienation, of not belonging. I think the current buzzword is
dienfranchisement.

Whats wrong with it is often that it offers no challenge no enjoyment no
sense of acheivement, and very little reward - not just monetarily but
in the lack of respect shown by society.

Put a dog like a collie in such an environment and it will almost always
develop serious behavioral problems. It's the same with us, we're
animals too.

I disagree. Less 'advanced', less money and technology centric cutures
manage fine. Budhist monks can sit for hours in meditation. There are
African tribes who's time inbetween hunts sat together re-telling old
stories, reminiscing, and watching the women do the hard part of the
'hunter-gatherer' equation; the bit that really keeps the tribe alive.
No of course not, I hoped that would have been a given.
Can never be too sure. 99% of people I have encountered on usenet who
quote Hitler end up seeming to me like one variety of weirdo extremist
or another. Other people seem to have the same experience hance the
comment....

....to be sure you seem like you might give the minority component a
boost.

The point I was trying to allude to was that the signs were first put on
Auschwitz by Rudolf Hoess, seemingly as a sick joke in that he new work
would certainly not make them free.

Work is necessary and can be liberating but I don't believe this is
universally so.
 
P

Pendragon

.

------------------

[Several snippages]
But in a society we have to live by certain rules and guidelines,
Of course with duties and expectations of and from society.
and that includes doing the menial tasks.
Any thesaurus gives synonyms of menial including lowly, base, degrading,
servile, dogsbody etc. While society sees these jobs and the people who
do them in this way (and it seems to me that it does) then it will often
sap a persons self respect and adverseley effect their self image to do
them.
I'll take it as meaning *consisting of or occupied with work requiring
little skill*. Some of the cheeriest people I know are the bin men,
roadsweepers, dinner lady etc.
It isn't an impossible change to make, the role of a 'stay at home
mother' has become more widely valued over the past two decades or so,
but we aren't even making baby steps in that direction.
Surely the *mother* will feel priceless at the gift they have charge
of. I know as a Dad there is nothing better in this world than having
children. I could easily be a stay at home Dad. I couldn't care less
what the rest of society thought of me for that. Are you suggesting
society doesn't value mothers, or that mothers don't value themselves?
I don't think it's a willingness to run away, it's trying to overcome a
feeling of alienation, of not belonging. I think the current buzzword is
dienfranchisement.
Keeping up with the Joneses was never a good philosophy.
Whats wrong with it is often that it offers no challenge no enjoyment no
sense of acheivement, and very little reward - not just monetarily but
in the lack of respect shown by society.
Only in an insecure person surely. I don't think society really thinks
of bread and butter workers as lacking in any way.
Put a dog like a collie in such an environment and it will almost always
develop serious behavioral problems. It's the same with us, we're
animals too.
Very few of us are collies, most of us are sheep, that's quite clear.
I can understand what you are saying in the context of workhouses in
the 1800s but I doubt anyone these days in Britain has reason to
complain whatever their job is. I can still remember the days when we
had to choose between milk OR sugar in our tea, we could not have
both. And what a blessing the duvet was after decades of using coats
as blankets etc. This was right up till the late 70s! Of course some
people will always moan at their lot, but that's not to say the
reasons are valid.
I disagree. Less 'advanced', less money and technology centric cutures
manage fine. Budhist monks can sit for hours in meditation. There are
African tribes who's time inbetween hunts sat together re-telling old
stories, reminiscing, and watching the women do the hard part of the
'hunter-gatherer' equation; the bit that really keeps the tribe alive.
Which is exactly how we in the *modern world* should perceive our time
and make use of it. Go back to basics when free time meant doing
nothing, or reading, walking, cycling etc. To many these days free
time means sitting in front of the TV being unable to reach the
remote, real suffering!

It's not so much these idle hands have nothing to do, there is plenty
to do as you pointed out with your example, it's just they refuse to
do anything, which makes them *idle hands*.
Can never be too sure. 99% of people I have encountered on usenet who
quote Hitler end up seeming to me like one variety of weirdo extremist
or another. Other people seem to have the same experience hance the
comment....
I don't see how. Hitler, Stalin etc were certainly not weirdo
extremists. In fact they were very clever. And they still live in each
of us today in varying degrees. Look at Soddom in Iraq, Bosnia etc
Is it them that went AWOL or was it the power that pushed them in to
thinking they were supreme beings overseeing the great unwashed?

Maybe people are afraid of themselves when invoking Godwin?

That said you are right there are a lot of nuts out there.
...to be sure you seem like you might give the minority component a
boost.

The point I was trying to allude to was that the signs were first put on
Auschwitz by Rudolf Hoess, seemingly as a sick joke in that he new work
would certainly not make them free.
Yes but that was not the point I was alluding to.
Work is necessary and can be liberating but I don't believe this is
universally so.
That's true. Many will always find something to do with their time,
that is useful and constructive even if it's reading a book. It's the
others moaning about nothing to do, or boredom, who actually are doing
nothing to change that feeling that are of concern, these would be
*the idle hands* :)
 
M

mike

It shouldn't though unless you're just looking for trouble which I
suspect is the case in most instances. It's *work makes you free* that
is important, not Hitler. Would it really matter if I had said "Donald
Duck once said".... ? And why on earth should it, what does that
really say about us?
If you can't see why a man who presided over a regime that
industrialised mass murder and re-introduced slavery to europe, might be
a bad idea then there's not much I can do to enlighten you.

Mike
 
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Pendragon

If you can't see why a man who presided over a regime that
industrialised mass murder and re-introduced slavery to europe, might be
a bad idea then there's not much I can do to enlighten you.
If you can't see why *work makes you free* is such a simple statement
I guess the feeling is mutual :(
 
N

nigel

x-no-archive: yes

Harry said:
But prison proves, both to the drug users, and to others, that they can
survive and cope without drugs for as long as their sentence lasts, which
seems to undermine the reasoning that they cannot help the choice they make
when released.
Supposedly prison provides the first exposure to drugs for many people -
more people come out of prison as addicts than go in, a shocking
condemnation of the lack of security in prisons and the lack of
resources invested in rehabilitating prisoners.

Don't forget the 'Human Rights' Act which means junkie prisoners can't
be forced to quit their addiction.

Evil Nigel
 
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