Impact of a Bad Job on Mental Health as Harmful as No Job at All


N

Niteawk

Harry Stottle said:
The above is not exactly a true reflection of the inmates, is it?

Not all the inmates obviously, but a fair percentage of them said they
prefer prison life, not many vowed to go straight when they were
released.
 
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P

Pendragon

x-no-archive: yes



Supposedly prison provides the first exposure to drugs for many people -
more people come out of prison as addicts than go in, a shocking
condemnation of the lack of security in prisons and the lack of
resources invested in rehabilitating prisoners.
Yes I think the biggest failing in society these days is the breakdown
of law and order from the politicians, it's no wonder society now
treats it as a joke. Prison is no more than a holiday camp these days,
and 4 star at that!

Still they want to cut it back even less. We only have ourselves to
blame, we vote for these idiots.
Don't forget the 'Human Rights' Act which means junkie prisoners can't
be forced to quit their addiction.
That act just makes a mockery of society.
 
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[snippety]
Pendragon:
I'll take it as meaning *consisting of or occupied with work requiring
little skill*.
This seems rather incomplete in so far as it is viewed in practice.
Pendragon:
Some of the cheeriest people I know are the bin men, roadsweepers,
dinner lady etc.
True, though often more, I feel, to do with the social interaction at
work and through work than due to the work itself.

I also have known people in equivalent jobs who are equally miserable.
They have not so far attained a station in keeping with their potential.

[snip]
Pendragon:
Are you suggesting society doesn't value mothers, or that mothers
don't value themselves?
I'm saying that if the views of society about mothers hadn't needed
ammendment the push during the 70s and 80s for them not to be seen as
second class citizens would not have happened.

Motherhood is still not universally celebrated, single mums have often
been referred to as sponging off the state.
Pendragon:
Keeping up with the Joneses was never a good philosophy.
How does keeping up with the Joneses relate to feelings of alienation?
I don't follow.
Pendragon:
Only in an insecure person surely.
It isn't just insecure people who need challenge, enjoyment or
achievement.
Pendragon:
I don't think society really thinks of bread and butter workers as
lacking in any way.
Look harder maybe.
Pendragon:
Very few of us are collies, most of us are sheep, that's quite clear.
Not so long ago _you_ were saying everyone wanted to be top dog and _I_
was saying they wanted to be happy and not hassled too much ;)
Pendragon:
I can understand what you are saying in the context of workhouses in
the 1800s....
The world has moved on and shows no sign of going back.

I don't see a society where challenge, enjoyment and a sense of
acheivement being available to all as being beyond human ingenuity.

[Snip to....]
Pendragon:
Which is exactly how we in the *modern world* should perceive our time
and make use of it. Go back to basics when free time meant doing
nothing, or reading, walking, cycling etc. To many these days free
time means sitting in front of the TV being unable to reach the
remote, real suffering!
So it's not just work that sets you free.

[Scissor]
Pendragon:
I don't see how.
By following it with screeds of white supremicism, anti-semitism,
holocaust denial and the like.
Pendragon:
Hitler, Stalin etc were certainly not weirdo extremists. In fact they
were very clever.
Well they were both murderous [email protected], being clever murderous [email protected]
enabled them to do more damage.

If being comfortable with ordering the massaacre of millions isn't weird
I'm missing something. If Hitlers racial hygiene policy, including the
'cleansing' of the disabled, his attempts to erradicate the jews weren't
extremist then there we are working to different definitions. Fascism is
in and of itself an extreme ideology.
Pendragon:
Look at Soddom in Iraq,
They've moved it further from the dead sea?? Oh, Saddam..
Pendragon:
Bosnia etc. Is it them that went AWOL or was it the power that pushed
them in to thinking they were supreme beings overseeing the great
unwashed?
Power corrupts, absolute -> absolutely?
 
P

Pendragon

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------------------
[snippety]
Pendragon:
I'll take it as meaning *consisting of or occupied with work requiring
little skill*.
This seems rather incomplete in so far as it is viewed in practice.
Only if you look at it too deeply, which is part of the problem I
guess. We look in to things too much, over analyse where it's not
really needed. Which is fine in theory, but when we try to put it into
practice and say to the road sweeper "do you realise that's a poor job
you have there"?
True, though often more, I feel, to do with the social interaction at
work and through work than due to the work itself.
That's my point. It's not the job that drags us down, it's our view of
the job. We can make the most of it and get on very well, or we can
look on it as demoralising etc.
I also have known people in equivalent jobs who are equally miserable.
They have not so far attained a station in keeping with their potential.
So again it's not the job then, but the person?
[snip]
Pendragon:
Are you suggesting society doesn't value mothers, or that mothers
don't value themselves?
I'm saying that if the views of society about mothers hadn't needed
ammendment the push during the 70s and 80s for them not to be seen as
second class citizens would not have happened.
That was not for mothers that was for women and rightly so?
Motherhood is still not universally celebrated, single mums have often
been referred to as sponging off the state.
Only by the ignorant. If those people never had single mums to put
down they would just think of something else.
How does keeping up with the Joneses relate to feelings of alienation?
I don't follow.
Being more concerned what our neighbour has, rather than with what we
have. Thoughts like that lead to a feeling of alienation, not because
it's real enough but because it's how they feel.
It isn't just insecure people who need challenge, enjoyment or
achievement.
But it's only insecure people who feel threatened by achievement of
others. I would love to climb Mount Everest too one day. I admire
those who have, but I don't think it's a personal failing if I never
get there.
Look harder maybe.
Why look for trouble?
Not so long ago _you_ were saying everyone wanted to be top dog and _I_
was saying they wanted to be happy and not hassled too much ;)
LOL watch it least we start pulling our peckers out and seeing who has
the whopper. I know who the winner will be but that's beside the point
:)

In the context you refer to I am merely suggesting yes we all (the
majority) would aspire to be better and do bigger things, but many of
us also realise we are what we are and accept it as is. Neither is a
problem unless we start feeling hard done by, and even if we are hard
done by so what.
The world has moved on and shows no sign of going back.

I don't see a society where challenge, enjoyment and a sense of
acheivement being available to all as being beyond human ingenuity.
I do see a society where fewer of us get to be the collie, and more
become the enforced sheep. Which is exactly how the state wants it.
[Snip to....]
Pendragon:
Which is exactly how we in the *modern world* should perceive our time
and make use of it. Go back to basics when free time meant doing
nothing, or reading, walking, cycling etc. To many these days free
time means sitting in front of the TV being unable to reach the
remote, real suffering!
So it's not just work that sets you free.
No, that's just one of many methods of freeing oneself.
[Scissor]
Shears more like lol
By following it with screeds of white supremicism, anti-semitism,
holocaust denial and the like.


Well they were both murderous [email protected], being clever murderous [email protected]
enabled them to do more damage.
I agree. Being clever allows them to get away with it for longer
before we, society, finally says enough is enough. An uncomfortable
long time in my view.
If being comfortable with ordering the massaacre of millions isn't weird
I'm missing something. If Hitlers racial hygiene policy, including the
'cleansing' of the disabled, his attempts to erradicate the jews weren't
extremist then there we are working to different definitions. Fascism is
in and of itself an extreme ideology.
We're not talking about Hitler we're talking about work! I think we
should have a Godwin 11 which can be invoked against those who refuse
to stick to the subject :0
They've moved it further from the dead sea?? Oh, Saddam..
LOL


Power corrupts, absolute -> absolutely?
Apparently so. I could not see it corrupting me, though I can see how
a whip would be handy occasionally :) Could you see Mother Theresa,
Martin Luther King, Pope John Paul 11 becoming corrupt to the extent
we're referring to? I like to think not.
 
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Only if you look at it too deeply, which is part of the problem I
guess. We look in to things too much, over analyse where it's not
really needed. Which is fine in theory, but when we try to put it into
practice and say to the road sweeper "do you realise that's a poor job
you have there"?
Criticism and predjudie are very rarely that blatant, unsophisticated or
unsubtle. It goes on whether you look at depth or not.
That's my point. It's not the job that drags us down, it's our view >
of the job.
No it's being in a job unsuited to ones abilities, potentials and
personality. Even worse in my view is working with people with who you
clash or don't gel with.
We can make the most of it and get on very well, or we can
look on it as demoralising etc.
So again it's not the job then, but the person?
No it's the combination of the two and their compatibility.
[snip]
How does keeping up with the Joneses relate to feelings of
alienation? I don't follow.
Being more concerned what our neighbour has, rather than with what we
have. Thoughts like that lead to a feeling of alienation, not because
it's real enough but because it's how they feel.
No the alienation felt generally has nothing to do with what other
people have, it's to do with feeling ones thoughts and emotions and the
rest of society's are disparate.

#It's not about the money,money,money# ;)
But it's only insecure people who feel threatened by achievement of
others. I would love to climb Mount Everest too one day. I admire
those who have, but I don't think it's a personal failing if I never
get there.
It's not about jelousy it's about having ones own challenges, ones own
enjoyment and ones own achievements. You're going a bit 'off piste' with
this line.
Why look for trouble?
It tends to look for me.
LOL watch it least we start pulling our peckers out and seeing who has
the whopper. I know who the winner will be but that's beside the point
:)
Said with the modesty and humility that befits a true christian. What a
pleasant surprise :)
In the context you refer to I am merely suggesting yes we all (the
majority) would aspire to be better and do bigger things, but many of
us also realise we are what we are and accept it as is. Neither is a
problem unless we start feeling hard done by, and even if we are hard
done by so what.
We might never be able to achieve an utopian society, but is that an
excuse not to strive for one.
I do see a society where fewer of us get to be the collie, and more
become the enforced sheep. Which is exactly how the state wants it.
Would you approve of that?
Shades of "Brave New World"
I agree. Being clever allows them to get away with it for longer
before we, society, finally says enough is enough. An uncomfortable
long time in my view.
Agreed.
Personality played a huge part as well, Stalin is still revered by a
huge number of Russians.
We're not talking about Hitler we're talking about work!
You re-introduced him as an individual when I was talking about usenet
posters who have quoted him, and you were quite happy to make what I
feel is an extraordinay statement anout him, and it was you who
introduced Saddam and Bosnia which have noyhing to do with work, but
don't want to talk about him. OK.
I think we should have a Godwin 11 which can be invoked against those
who refuse to stick to the subject :0
Threads naturally meander, they're the starting place not the
destination, and as for rules in usenet - pretty much pointless trying
to enforce them.
Apparently so. I could not see it corrupting me, though I can see how
a whip would be handy occasionally :) Could you see Mother Theresa,
Ah that paragon of compassion:

"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their
lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the
world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor
people."

a different kind of corruption.
Martin Luther King, Pope John Paul 11 becoming corrupt to the extent
we're referring to? I like to think not.
Dunno I was asking if you believed it not mooting it myself.


dccxxvii
 
P

Pendragon

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------------------



Criticism and predjudie are very rarely that blatant, unsophisticated or
unsubtle. It goes on whether you look at depth or not.
Doesn't that sound over complicated?
No it's being in a job unsuited to ones abilities, potentials and
personality.
It's a job not a lifestyle!
Even worse in my view is working with people with who you
clash or don't gel with.
Hey you slipped that one in, now we have two problems! You should know
I hate multitasking :)
It's not about jelousy it's about having ones own challenges, ones own
enjoyment and ones own achievements. You're going a bit 'off piste' with
this line.
I think you're taking the piste! :)
It tends to look for me.
LOL



Said with the modesty and humility that befits a true christian. What a
pleasant surprise :)
Hey somehow I think you just won that argument! Nothing wrong with
your mind :0
We might never be able to achieve an utopian society, but is that an
excuse not to strive for one.
My philosophy entirely.
Would you approve of that?
Shades of "Brave New World"
You're right. It may be the only way to get the world to *work* with
secular thinking. Gods plan is much easier and simpler, beats me why
we all don't take it :)

Why do we always have to look for the most complicated solutions?
Agreed.
Personality played a huge part as well, Stalin is still revered by a
huge number of Russians.
So is Hitler. Oops I did it again :)
You re-introduced him as an individual when I was talking about usenet
posters who have quoted him, and you were quite happy to make what I
feel is an extraordinay statement anout him, and it was you who
introduced Saddam and Bosnia which have noyhing to do with work, but
don't want to talk about him. OK.
It was never about who said it, it was about what they said.
Threads naturally meander, they're the starting place not the
destination, and as for rules in usenet - pretty much pointless trying
to enforce them.
Godwin is not natural meandering it's looking for trouble and
completely diverting the subject matter. Though I don't understand why
someone would do that.
Ah that paragon of compassion:

"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their
lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the
world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor
people."

a different kind of corruption.
How so?

Who slipped uk.gov.social-security in to this thread! I hate crowds :(
 
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Doesn't that sound over complicated?
No it seems natural, we have billions of people running fantastically
complicated software on staggeringly powerful hardware. It's that the
brain does so much of it's work at levels below our awareness of it that
leads us to see things as more simplistic than they are.
It's a job not a lifestyle!
It takes up a large proportion of a persons life, of course there should
be compatibility.
Hey you slipped that one in, now we have two problems! You should know
I hate multitasking :)
I'm so sorry, I apologize unreservedly :)

.....
Nothing wrong with your mind :0
You take that back, I have psychiatric reports an all you know ;)
My philosophy entirely.
Agreement is always pleasant, not to mention a minor miracle in some
groups.

.....
You're right. It may be the only way to get the world to *work* with
secular thinking. Gods plan is much easier and simpler, beats me why
we all don't take it :)
Why do we always have to look for the most complicated solutions?
.....
So is Hitler. Oops I did it again :)
Hitler? Revered by a huge number of Russians? You live and learn,

.....
Godwin is not natural meandering it's looking for trouble and
completely diverting the subject matter. Though I don't understand why
someone would do that.
If anyone's been doing that in this thread we wouldn't have still been
discussing it. At the time we were and to an extent still are; this was
just an aside.
Are you unaware of the criticisms of her?
Who slipped uk.gov.social-security in to this thread! I hate crowds :(
You're in luck. I've just had a look and about 97% of the post there are
from this thread, it's somewhat underused by the look of things.
 
P

Pendragon

.


Are you unaware of the criticisms of her?
Jealousy is a terrible thing so I have no doubt there are many idle
hands at work. What's your take on it?
You're in luck. I've just had a look and about 97% of the post there are
from this thread, it's somewhat underused by the look of things.
I've been used before but never as a stocking filler. You cad.
 
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P

Pendragon

Jealousy is a terrible thing so I have no doubt there are many idle
hands at work. What's your take on it?
Why are we waiting? Cat got your tongue! :)
 
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It must be, you seem to see it a lot with your 'keeping up with the
Joneses' comments and such. People can have differing opinions and mind
states for lots of reasons.
......so I have no doubt there are many idle hands at work.
Oh, c'mon, you don't really think the 'Devil' is behind everything,
making this 'work' for peoples 'idle hands' ;)
What's your take on it?
Why are we waiting? Cat got your tongue! :)
So your abhorance of deviating from the subject of a thread only applies
when questioned on your remark that Hitler wasn't a weirdo-extremist but
it's fine when you want to challenge my opinion of a low grade 'instant
saint'? Hokey dokey.

Cat's had nothing to do with it, more to do with an online poker
tournament, some snatched sleep, an overactive dog and other rl stuff
which all matter much more to me than this trivia, but I'll give you a
start.

Her order, the one she personally set up, accepted huge donations from
the Haitian Duvalier family, perpetratorsone of one of the planets most
repressive regimes - a regime she later praised.

She was not particularly interested in helping improve the lives of the
poor or curing the sick because she truly believed the statement I
posted earlier, in that "I [MT] think the world is being much helped by
the suffering of the poor people." She believed this to such an extent
that she refused to allow the use of the funds, which were very much
available, for the treatment of a young boy with the antibiotics that
could have saved his life. Her reasoning was that it was irrelevant as
he was going to meet God. She sacrificed him for 'her' beliefs. She
wanted to save peoples souls not their lives.

When she developed a heart condition it was nothing but the finest
Californian clinics.

Rather than spending donations on the substandard medical facilities of
Calcutta she furthered the interests of her order 'Missionaries of
Charity', diverting money donated for one cause to another.

Remeniscent of medeivel times she used her influence and threats of
hellfire and damnation to enforce her intransigent beliefs on
contraception and abortion (which is apparently "the greatest destroyer
of peace,")

As for the absolute hokum of the 'miracle' that qualified her for her
sainthood.... curing a womans cancer tumor (that her own doctor swears
she never had).... as I said, hokum for the gullible.

All the best.
 
P

Pendragon

.

It must be, you seem to see it a lot with your 'keeping up with the
Joneses' comments and such. People can have differing opinions and mind
states for lots of reasons.
Jealousy being one of the bad reasons which is why I said it.
Oh, c'mon, you don't really think the 'Devil' is behind everything,
making this 'work' for peoples 'idle hands' ;)
I have no doubt he is behind most of it. Not that it matters, what
matters is we don't submit to the temptation.
So your abhorance of deviating from the subject of a thread only applies
when questioned on your remark that Hitler wasn't a weirdo-extremist
but it's fine when you want to challenge my opinion of a low grade 'instant
saint'? Hokey dokey.
My abhorrence only applied if you were looking for trouble and had no
interest in the real thread. You now appear to be doing the same about
Mother Theresa as you failed with Adolf. Why is that, can you not just
give a straight answer?
Cat's had nothing to do with it, more to do with an online poker
tournament, some snatched sleep, an overactive dog and other rl stuff
which all matter much more to me than this trivia, but I'll give you a
start.
Honoured I'm sure :)
Her order, the one she personally set up, accepted huge donations from
the Haitian Duvalier family, perpetratorsone of one of the planets most
repressive regimes - a regime she later praised.
She may well have done but certainly not in the context you imply
whilst looking for trouble. The fact she was a genuine and sincere
caring person means nothing to you?

Remeniscent of medeivel times she used her influence and threats of
hellfire and damnation to enforce her intransigent beliefs on
contraception and abortion (which is apparently "the greatest destroyer
of peace,")
The casual murder of innocents and uncontrolled sexual urges and their
consequences will and are a great part of why the world will never
find peace. How can you murder a child in the womb and honestly expect
peace in your heart?
As for the absolute hokum of the 'miracle' that qualified her for her
sainthood.... curing a womans cancer tumor (that her own doctor swears
she never had).... as I said, hokum for the gullible.
So, not content attacking when she was alive you still attack her even
though she is dead. Your blind prejudice seems to have missed out the
global good she did and represented. Why not focus on that instead?

Your obvious passion for idle and negative gossip does you no favours.
Why not use that passion for good instead?

Even if you don't like Mother Theresa, God or indeed anything good.
You can always stay on topic by suggesting some alternative as a
*good* politician?
"I'm still an atheist, thank God." - Luis Bunuel
That tickled me.
 
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My abhorrence only applied if you were looking for trouble and had no
interest in the real thread. You now appear to be doing the same about
Mother Theresa as you failed with Adolf. Why is that, can you not just
give a straight answer?
You brought her up as you did Hitler
"Could you see Mother Theresa ..... becoming corrupt to the extent
we're referring to?"
I give a brief reply, indicating that indeed I could.
"How so?"
Being so eager for a fight I defer with "Are you unaware of the
criticisms of her?"

I genuinely find it hard to believe you were not.

But you persisted with.
"What's your take on it?"
Again so intent on a brawl was I that I allowed my time to be directed
at other things, and it's unlikely I would have returned to it as my
newsreader default is to hide read messages. However rather than letting
it fizzle out you prod for a response with....
"Why are we waiting? Cat got your tongue! :)"
I seemed kind of eager for my opinion and I had the respect for you to
give an honest one.

Now you seem upset.

What can we do?

If you'd like me to deal with the points in your post here in the group,
I'm ok with that if you are.

If you'd prefer to do it by e-mail the address in the headers is genuine
and I'm ok with that, responses are unlikely to be immediate as I only
check that mailbox once or twice a day.

If youd rather just let it die I'm ok with that too, this isn't a biggie
for me.


All the best.
 
P

Pendragon

Not to cause trouble.

I seemed kind of eager for my opinion and I had the respect for you to
give an honest one.
Now you seem upset.

What can we do?
It's quite clear you're rather upset by my vote for Mother Theresa. I
fear my cast for Martin Luther King would elicit the same unjustified
contempt. I would therefore like you to nominate someone. Donald Duck
is busy with Godwin but apart from this anyone will do I'm sure. Then
maybe we can get back on with saving the world?
 
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Not to cause trouble.
Or, it seems, to hear the answer to the questions you asked about her if
it gidn't agree with your opinion.

You seem to view disagreeing with you as looking for trouble....
<snip stirring>
....and pointing out that I'm just answering your questions as stirring.

You've expressed a view of not overcomplicating things, yet you overlook
the simplest explanation - that my opinion is simply different from
yours.
It's quite clear you're rather upset by my vote for Mother Theresa.
I'm a little miffed that no-one told me there was an election. Other
than that, I'm chilled.
I fear my cast for Martin Luther King would elicit the same
unjustified contempt.
I save my contempt for those I feel deserve it. Rev. King did a great
deal of good.
I would therefore like you to nominate someone. Donald Duck.....
Don't get me started on that short tempered [email protected]
....Godwin......
busy partying with Prince Harry, Max Mosley and five hookers.
Then maybe we can get back on with saving the world?
The World doesn't meed saving, it's doing just fine. It was here long
before we were and it'll be here long after we've gone
 
P

Pendragon

.



Or, it seems, to hear the answer to the questions you asked about her if
it gidn't agree with your opinion.
It has nothing to do with my opinion. I just wonder why you see fit to
spend so much effort looking for trouble instead of just putting up
your own nominee :(
You seem to view disagreeing with you as looking for trouble....
Incorrect. Lets stick to the context here. You're just looking for
trouble.
...and pointing out that I'm just answering your questions as stirring.
Quite.

You've expressed a view of not overcomplicating things, yet you overlook
the simplest explanation - that my opinion is simply different from
yours.
The simplest explanation is that you try very hard to divert a
perfectly sane thread in to a nonsensical bore. I just wonder why?
I'm a little miffed that no-one told me there was an election. Other
than that, I'm chilled.
Maybe if you had paid attention to the thread you were trying so hard
to disrupt?
I save my contempt for those I feel deserve it. Rev. King did a great
deal of good.
As a conspiracy theorist you're missing plenty of ammo there. Is it
cos he's black?
Don't get me started on that short tempered [email protected]
Daffy!


busy partying with Prince Harry, Max Mosley and five hookers.


The World doesn't meed saving, it's doing just fine. It was here long
before we were and it'll be here long after we've gone
You should get out more then.
 
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Incorrect. Lets stick to the context here. You're just looking for
trouble.
By offering you the chance to take it to email or end the thread.
Funny way of looking for trouble, that.

You're the one that's using the purjoritive language, and can't or won't
leave things lie.
The simplest explanation is that you try very hard to divert a
perfectly sane thread in to a nonsensical bore. I just wonder why?
You try very hard to interpret a difference of opinion as troublemaking.
If you're doing it in a delberate attempt to needle me the diazepam,
venlafaxine, and my placid nature are against you, so good luck with
that :)
As a conspiracy theorist you're missing plenty of ammo there. Is it
cos he's black?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist and it's not because he's black. He may
have had his faults but he did more than enough good to outweigh any.

Yeah, Daffy bleedin' Fauntleroy bleedin' Duck !!
You should get out more then.
Often six times a day with my dog seems quite enough (and must be doing
wonders for my vitamin D levels.)
 
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N

nigel

x-no-archive: yes
How can you murder a child in the womb and honestly expect
peace in your heart?
I'm pro-abortion, or at least in favour of the woman having the right to
choose. But there was a story in the paper this week of a perfectly
formed baby being prematurely born at 22 weeks and doctors and nurses
refused to try to save it. I also think that's wrong (and DEFINITELY
against the Hippocratic Oath). I can also see the apparent contradiction
between those two views.
Your blind prejudice seems to have missed out the
global good she did and represented.
I'm uncomfortable with that line of argument because I can imagine the
Roman Catholic hierarchy saying it when they covered up paedophile priests.

Evil Nigel
 

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