Lets Crash the Housing Market..First Time Buyers.


I

ianmihary

Hi,

If your reading this mail, you are probably from 2 Camps:

Camp A
The non House Owner. A group of individuals who have had there hopes
and dreams washed away from under there feet, as they struggle to come
to terms with never being able to own a property. A group of people who
see the overwhelming smiles on House owners faces as they feel so smug
they bought at the right time. A group of people who overhear in the
local bars and restuarants those feel good lines "oh, I don't know what
we would have done if we hadn't have bought".

Camp B
The House Owner. A bunch of self rightous "were middle class now" set
of individuals who seem to think all they touch turns to gold. A
bunch...there is no more to be said..


The difference between these two Camps is that if First Time Buyers
stick together and withold from the market for the next year
completely, then house prices will tumble to a non inflated price
range.

So,

First Time Buyers, the message is Clear..

Don't Buy Now..

Ian Mihary.
 
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T

Tumbleweed

Hi,

If your reading this mail, you are probably from 2 Camps:

Camp A
The non House Owner. A group of individuals who have had there hopes
and dreams washed away from under there feet, as they struggle to come
to terms with never being able to own a property. A group of people who
see the overwhelming smiles on House owners faces as they feel so smug
they bought at the right time. A group of people who overhear in the
local bars and restuarants those feel good lines "oh, I don't know what
we would have done if we hadn't have bought".

Camp B
The House Owner. A bunch of self rightous "were middle class now" set
of individuals who seem to think all they touch turns to gold. A
bunch...there is no more to be said..


The difference between these two Camps is that if First Time Buyers
stick together and withold from the market for the next year
completely, then house prices will tumble to a non inflated price
range.

So,

First Time Buyers, the message is Clear..

Don't Buy Now..

Ian Mihary.
LOL.......you seem to be trying to move all the "individuals who have had
there hopes and dreams washed away from under there feet" into the group of
"self rightous "were middle class now" people.

Why would you want to do that? Anyway, now that you are back at school, pay
more attention in your English lessons. And stay out of wine bars, you
obviously aren't old enough to be in them.
 
M

Matt Robertson

Tumbleweed said:
LOL.......you seem to be trying to move all the "individuals who have had
there hopes and dreams washed away from under there feet" into the group of
"self rightous "were middle class now" people.

Why would you want to do that? Anyway, now that you are back at school, pay
more attention in your English lessons. And stay out of wine bars, you
obviously aren't old enough to be in them.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
Yeah, wot e said ;o)
 
R

Richard Faulkner

In message said:
Hi,

If your reading this mail, you are probably from 2 Camps:

Camp A
The non House Owner. A group of individuals who have had there hopes
and dreams washed away from under there feet, as they struggle to come
to terms with never being able to own a property. A group of people who
see the overwhelming smiles on House owners faces as they feel so smug
they bought at the right time. A group of people who overhear in the
local bars and restuarants those feel good lines "oh, I don't know what
we would have done if we hadn't have bought".

Camp B
The House Owner. A bunch of self rightous "were middle class now" set
of individuals who seem to think all they touch turns to gold. A
bunch...there is no more to be said..


The difference between these two Camps is that if First Time Buyers
stick together and withold from the market for the next year
completely, then house prices will tumble to a non inflated price
range.

So,

First Time Buyers, the message is Clear..

Don't Buy Now..

Ian Mihary.
That's a big bag of chips on your shoulder, and a large bunch of sour
grapes in your pocket <g>

I am a house owner who is neither smug nor self righteous, merely older.

Dont forget that all of us houseowners were 1st time buyers aswell, and
I can certainly recall hardly being able to afford the house which I
bought, but I eventually stretched myself to the limit and did it. I was
so naive that I dont know what the market was like at the time.

Have you noticed that the property market seems to be cooling as you
write? This suggests that market forces are already making 1st time
buyers do what you suggest, and they dont really need anyone to tell
them.
 
M

mogga

That's a big bag of chips on your shoulder, and a large bunch of sour
grapes in your pocket <g>

I am a house owner who is neither smug nor self righteous, merely older.
You also own other property which you rent out to people unable to buy
their own homes because they're all owned by people like you?
 
T

Tim

If your reading this mail, you are probably from 2 Camps:

Camp A
The non House Owner. A group of individuals who have had there
hopes and dreams washed away from under there feet, as they struggle
to come to terms with never being able to own a property. A group
of people who see the overwhelming smiles on House owners faces
as they feel so smug they bought at the right time. A group of people
who overhear in the local bars and restuarants those feel good lines
"oh, I don't know what we would have done if we hadn't have bought".

Camp B
The House Owner. A bunch of self rightous "were middle
class now" set of individuals who seem to think all they
touch turns to gold. A bunch...there is no more to be said..

The difference between these two Camps is that if
First Time Buyers stick together and withold from
the market for the next year completely, then house
prices will tumble to a non inflated price range.

So,
First Time Buyers, the message is Clear..
Don't Buy Now..
Ermmm - which "camp" are you suggesting the target of your request ("First
Time Buyers ... Don't Buy Now") are in?
I presume "Camp A", as they do not yet own a house.

That means that they "...have had there hopes and dreams washed away from
under there feet, as they struggle to come to terms with never being able to
own a property."
Hmmm - so, what you are really saying is "all those people that have decided
that they can't afford to buy a house, please don't buy a house!"
Doh!!
 
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G

Gav

Hi,

If your reading this mail, you are probably from 2 Camps:

Camp A
The non House Owner. A group of individuals who have had there hopes
and dreams washed away from under there feet, as they struggle to come
to terms with never being able to own a property. A group of people who
see the overwhelming smiles on House owners faces as they feel so smug
they bought at the right time. A group of people who overhear in the
local bars and restuarants those feel good lines "oh, I don't know what
we would have done if we hadn't have bought".

Camp B
The House Owner. A bunch of self rightous "were middle class now" set
of individuals who seem to think all they touch turns to gold. A
bunch...there is no more to be said..


The difference between these two Camps is that if First Time Buyers
stick together and withold from the market for the next year
completely, then house prices will tumble to a non inflated price
range.

So,

First Time Buyers, the message is Clear..

Don't Buy Now..

Ian Mihary.
Problem here is that if they don't buy they will end up renting somewhere

instead. Thus feeding those in "Camp B" (I'm assuming "camp b" includes

BTL) and making it worthwhile for them to invest further in the property

market. To shake things up you would not only need to not buy, but not rent

either, i.e. stay with Parents or Friends as a lodger. But these days people

can't wait to leave home and renting is usually the way they go initially.
As

it happens I fall into neither camp, I am still living with parents which
allows

me to save a heck of a lot, so when I do decide to purchase a house I'll be

paying cash for it.
 
R

Richard Faulkner

mogga said:
You also own other property which you rent out to people unable to buy
their own homes because they're all owned by people like you?
Bollocks! Is the short answer <g>

Your comments are typical at a time when the market is at its' peak, and
which are completely absent when it is not. Are you also one of those
types who has been saying for years that the market is set for a crash,
so it would be foolish to buy? Almost every single property owned by a
landlord was equally available to anyone else at the time it was sold.

There has always been a sector of the population who prefer to rent
rather than buy, and it doesnt matter what the state of the property
market. Without people like me, they would not be able to do what they
wish.

Secondly, most of the flats that I own are owned under titles such that
they could not be sold to individuals under separate titles - that is
how I bought them. The people you are talking about could not possibly
have bought most of what I own, so I have not, and am not, preventing
anyone from buying anything.

In addition, the flats which I own on individual titles were fully
available to the people you are talking about when I bought them, as
were many similar flats at the time.

Having spent a fortune, creating reasonable living accommodation from
hovels, there will come a time when i split the flats into separate
titles, and make them available for sale, thus increasing the supply,
(in a small way), to the people you are talking about.
 
D

Daytona

Richard Faulkner said:
I can certainly recall hardly being able to afford the house which I
bought, but I eventually stretched myself to the limit and did it.
Just for some balance, I could easily afford my first house. Choosing
whether you wish to go through financial pain to acquire a house is a
personal choice; different people will make different choices.

Daytona
 
C

curiosity

Problem here is that if they don't buy they will end up renting somewhere

instead. Thus feeding those in "Camp B" (I'm assuming "camp b" includes

BTL) and making it worthwhile for them to invest further in the property

market.
But don't forget the newbuilds as a response to market tension - this
has swollen the ranks of camp B perhaps without sufficient nourishment
to go around.
When even the shoeshine boy has got wind of BTL then something has to
give - my guess is the BTL craze will either self-extinguish or credit
for it will dry up or it will become politically such a hot potato
that it will be de-incentivised. I'm thinking here of the ex-teachers
who used their one-home equity to build up a portfolio of 500 houses
or so. Now just imagine when the shoe-shine boy hears about THAT...

To shake things up you would not only need to not buy, but not rent

either, i.e. stay with Parents or Friends as a lodger. But these days people

can't wait to leave home and renting is usually the way they go initially.
As

it happens I fall into neither camp, I am still living with parents which
allows

me to save a heck of a lot, so when I do decide to purchase a house I'll be

paying cash for it.
Good for you, stay at home for as long as poss...
 
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C

curiosity

Bollocks! Is the short answer <g>
Perhaps a bit too short - though clearly not ALL buyers have been
excluded by BTL I've no doubt that BTL generally has lifted prices in
certain market areas and hence exacerbated the problem for FTBs.
Your comments are typical at a time when the market is at its' peak, and
which are completely absent when it is not. Are you also one of those
types who has been saying for years that the market is set for a crash,
so it would be foolish to buy? Almost every single property owned by a
landlord was equally available to anyone else at the time it was sold.
But the means to purchase multiple properties have certainly not been
available to 'anyone else'. Of course only 'opportunity' is to blame
but the relatively poor often have a tough time of things when the
relatively rich can turn all sorts of tricks to become richer. The
vicious (or virtual depending on your POV) circle of
[having house]-[releasing equity]-[buying another house]-[market
tension]-[prices rise]-[buy another house]....needs that first house.
'Opportunity' is rarely equal.
There has always been a sector of the population who prefer to rent
rather than buy, and it doesnt matter what the state of the property
market. Without people like me, they would not be able to do what they
wish.
Secondly, most of the flats that I own are owned under titles such that
they could not be sold to individuals under separate titles - that is
how I bought them. The people you are talking about could not possibly
have bought most of what I own, so I have not, and am not, preventing
anyone from buying anything.
I'm out of my depth on here. Sounds like a market nicely biased in
favour of the seller. How does it work?
 
C

curiosity

Hi,

If your reading this mail, you are probably from 2 Camps:

Camp A
The non House Owner. A group of individuals who have had there hopes
and dreams washed away from under there feet, as they struggle to come
to terms with never being able to own a property. A group of people who
see the overwhelming smiles on House owners faces as they feel so smug
they bought at the right time. A group of people who overhear in the
local bars and restuarants those feel good lines "oh, I don't know what
we would have done if we hadn't have bought".

Camp B
The House Owner. A bunch of self rightous "were middle class now" set
of individuals who seem to think all they touch turns to gold. A
bunch...there is no more to be said..


The difference between these two Camps is that if First Time Buyers
stick together and withold from the market for the next year
completely, then house prices will tumble to a non inflated price
range.

So,

First Time Buyers, the message is Clear..

Don't Buy Now..

Ian Mihary.
As others have pointed out, that's hopelessly simplistic. Go to
www.housepricecrash.co.uk and do some swotting.
 
C

curiosity

Ermmm - which "camp" are you suggesting the target of your request ("First
Time Buyers ... Don't Buy Now") are in?
I presume "Camp A", as they do not yet own a house.

That means that they "...have had there hopes and dreams washed away from
under there feet, as they struggle to come to terms with never being able to
own a property."
Hmmm - so, what you are really saying is "all those people that have decided
that they can't afford to buy a house, please don't buy a house!"
Doh!!
Sure, but in the rush to generalise the OP has forgotten that there is
a genuine target group - those that could go ahead but are
undecided....
 
C

curiosity

I'm out of my depth on here. Sounds like a market nicely biased in
favour of the seller. How does it work?
should have said

.....in favour of the buyer....
 
R

Richard Faulkner

curiosity said:
Perhaps a bit too short - though clearly not ALL buyers have been
excluded by BTL I've no doubt that BTL generally has lifted prices in
certain market areas and hence exacerbated the problem for FTBs.
Increased demand increases prices, unless supply keeps up - it's a fact
of life here, so we need to get used to it. When FTB's start to buy
again, they too will lift prices for following FTB's. Nobody has ever
said how unfair it is that FTB's buying houses is making it more
difficult for FTB's to buy houses. It's a vicious circle and whingeing
wont change anything.
But the means to purchase multiple properties have certainly not been
available to 'anyone else'
At the time I purchased the majority of my properties, given the
condition of the properties, and standard of tenants in occupation, very
few people would have even wanted to buy them. The so called
disadvantaged FTB's would have run a mile from them. In fact, I lose
count of the number of FTB's who rejected properties which needed a bit
of damp proofing, a bit of woodwork etc... I cant stress how much these
people would not have wanted to buy what I have.

. Of course only 'opportunity' is to blame
but the relatively poor often have a tough time of things when the
relatively rich can turn all sorts of tricks to become richer. The
vicious (or virtual depending on your POV) circle of
[having house]-[releasing equity]-[buying another house]-[market
tension]-[prices rise]-[buy another house]....needs that first house.
'Opportunity' is rarely equal.
Like I said in a previous post, we were all FTB's at some stage. Unless
age precluded them, anyone who didnt buy a house between say, 1999 and
2003, has absolutely no reason to complain. The opportunities were there
in volume.

I'm not pretending to be a charity, I'm in this to make money, but what
I say is factual. If there were no landlords, where would many people
live??
I'm out of my depth on here.
Which is why I have been able to do it said:
Sounds like a market nicely biased in
favour of the seller.
???? I was the buyer
How does it work?
I have 2 large Victorian houses, each converted into 7 flats. The houses
were both sold as 1 unit, with no possibility of being split into 7
separate units at the time. (Actually, 1 of them could have been, but
the seller didnt want the hassle of doing it). So a buyer had to have
the ability to buy the whole lot, or not at all. Most FTB's cant do
this, and wouldnt want to in any event.

There's nothing sinister - It's a bit like saying how unfair it is that
the ordinary Joe cant buy the Arndale Shopping centre.
 
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R

Richard Faulkner

curiosity said:
should have said

....in favour of the buyer....
And I would say that the sellers were landlords selling what they had
created, or previously bought. In the context of your discussion, it's
academic as you would see this as one landlord shafting another -
Result!!!
 
R

Richard Faulkner

curiosity said:
But don't forget the newbuilds as a response to market tension - this
has swollen the ranks of camp B perhaps without sufficient nourishment
to go around.
When even the shoeshine boy has got wind of BTL then something has to
give - my guess is the BTL craze will either self-extinguish or credit
for it will dry up or it will become politically such a hot potato
that it will be de-incentivised. I'm thinking here of the ex-teachers
who used their one-home equity to build up a portfolio of 500 houses
or so. Now just imagine when the shoe-shine boy hears about THAT...
Who is this shoeshine boy? Sounds like you think he has no right to
consider getting onto the housing ladder?
 
C

curiosity

Increased demand increases prices, unless supply keeps up - it's a fact
of life here, so we need to get used to it. When FTB's start to buy
again, they too will lift prices for following FTB's. Nobody has ever
said how unfair it is that FTB's buying houses is making it more
difficult for FTB's to buy houses. It's a vicious circle and whingeing
wont change anything.
FTBers are often happy with one house. BTLers tend to want quite a
few. To draw a parallel between the respective influence of FTBs and
BTLs on the market is inane.
Housing is too an important issue to leave to the mercy of spivs and
speculation.

But the means to purchase multiple properties have certainly not been
available to 'anyone else'
At the time I purchased the majority of my properties, given the
condition of the properties, and standard of tenants in occupation, very
few people would have even wanted to buy them. The so called
disadvantaged FTB's would have run a mile from them. In fact, I lose
count of the number of FTB's who rejected properties which needed a bit
of damp proofing, a bit of woodwork etc... I cant stress how much these
people would not have wanted to buy what I have.

. Of course only 'opportunity' is to blame
but the relatively poor often have a tough time of things when the
relatively rich can turn all sorts of tricks to become richer. The
vicious (or virtual depending on your POV) circle of
[having house]-[releasing equity]-[buying another house]-[market
tension]-[prices rise]-[buy another house]....needs that first house.
'Opportunity' is rarely equal.
Like I said in a previous post, we were all FTB's at some stage. Unless
age precluded them, anyone who didnt buy a house between say, 1999 and
2003, has absolutely no reason to complain. The opportunities were there
in volume.

I'm not pretending to be a charity, I'm in this to make money, but what
I say is factual. If there were no landlords, where would many people
live??
I'm out of my depth on here.
Which is why I have been able to do it <g>
But on reading below it seems you've done nothing other than purchase
a large house and split it up. I was under the impression that
something unusual was going on here.

???? I was the buyer
(I did correct this error)
I have 2 large Victorian houses, each converted into 7 flats. The houses
were both sold as 1 unit, with no possibility of being split into 7
separate units at the time. (Actually, 1 of them could have been, but
the seller didnt want the hassle of doing it). So a buyer had to have
the ability to buy the whole lot, or not at all. Most FTB's cant do
this, and wouldnt want to in any event.
I appreciate that splitting up large houses is not for everyone and of
course a developer should be paid for his work.
There's nothing sinister - It's a bit like saying how unfair it is that
the ordinary Joe cant buy the Arndale Shopping centre.
Try and keep your delusions of grandeur in check.
 
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C

curiosity

Who is this shoeshine boy? Sounds like you think he has no right to
consider getting onto the housing ladder?
Does it?.. then you've missed the point.
 

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