Money laundering ott


A

AnthonyL

So I finally succumbed to doing an on-line switch of a joint UK bank
account to a similar one with a slightly better offer. No other
changes.

Today I get all the forms necessary to provide to prove I'm who I say
I am. Why? How come they don't already know?
 
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T

The Todal

So I finally succumbed to doing an on-line switch of a joint UK bank
account to a similar one with a slightly better offer. No other
changes.

Today I get all the forms necessary to provide to prove I'm who I say
I am. Why? How come they don't already know?
Are you saying that you remain with the same bank and have merely opened
a new account with better terms?

If so it does seem strange that they would require AML (anti
moneylaundering) documents. In the old days you'd be able to write to
your bank manager to query this. Now you can write to a team at a
call-centre who will send you whatever stock reply they always send.
 
M

Martin Brown

So I finally succumbed to doing an on-line switch of a joint UK bank
account to a similar one with a slightly better offer. No other
changes.

Today I get all the forms necessary to provide to prove I'm who I say
I am. Why? How come they don't already know?
Because the UK has no credible identity card system or methodology.

It only inconveniences genuine customers too. I doubt that anyone into
professional money laundering will find it hard to get a fake ID and
just about anyone with a scanner can forge a utility bill these days.

Old ladies who have never had a driving licence, passport or utility
bill in their own name find it incredibly difficult to meet the list A &
list B ID requirements to open a bank account when they need to.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
M

Mike Barnes

The said:
Are you saying that you remain with the same bank and have merely opened
a new account with better terms?

If so it does seem strange that they would require AML (anti
moneylaundering) documents. In the old days you'd be able to write to
your bank manager to query this. Now you can write to a team at a
call-centre who will send you whatever stock reply they always send.
New regulations apply to new sales and the identity information they
already have on file for you might not be adequate. The same has
happened to me with a bank I'd been an active customer of for over 20 years.
 
A

AnthonyL

Because the UK has no credible identity card system or methodology.

It only inconveniences genuine customers too. I doubt that anyone into
professional money laundering will find it hard to get a fake ID and
just about anyone with a scanner can forge a utility bill these days.

Old ladies who have never had a driving licence, passport or utility
bill in their own name find it incredibly difficult to meet the list A &
list B ID requirements to open a bank account when they need to.
Every utility bill is in my name - I lived here before I was married.

I guess I must have gone through similar hassle when we opened the
original joint account from which we are now moving (to another bank
lest there be any confusion).
 
O

Omega

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
So I finally succumbed to doing an on-line switch of a joint UK bank
account to a similar one with a slightly better offer. No other
changes.

Today I get all the forms necessary to provide to prove I'm who I say
I am. Why? How come they don't already know?
Because the UK has no credible identity card system or methodology.

It only inconveniences genuine customers too. I doubt that anyone into
professional money laundering will find it hard to get a fake ID and
just about anyone with a scanner can forge a utility bill these days.

Old ladies who have never had a driving licence, passport or utility
bill in their own name find it incredibly difficult to meet the list A &
list B ID requirements to open a bank account when they need to.

Regards,
Martin Brown

.........................

Very much so, an inconvenience to genuine customers.

This year I tried to buy ISAs from HSBC and Barclays, both of whom I've had
accounts for years. Neither bank would open an ISA for me without all sorts
of proof of identity which meant my going home and doing a round trip of
twenty five miles. One of the banks would not take no for an answer as they
'required' a valid passport, I don't have one having let it lapse about two
years ago. In the end I got so frustrated and angry I told both to shove
their ISAs up there arse and bought thousands of pounds of gold online
without a glimmer! Been a damn fine move too, as my gold is now worth
about 7% higher than what I paid and because they are Britannias [UK Tender]
no tax to pay on them whatsoever if I sell.

Also, I remember buying a brand new car online and wanted to pay the
remainder of the price, four thousand pounds in cash, yes all mine and
perfectly legit. The firm in Chesterfield told me they would only accept
£2,000 in cash due to money laundering regulations. By the hell did they
do a turn around when I told them to cancel the order and get what money I'd
paid so far, back to my account. There are money laundering regulations as
I understand but some of the buggas make it up as they go along. I left one
car dealer banging his head on his showroom door after his insistence they
don't do cash, how do you make business with the gypos?

We live in the age of bullshit, I rather fancy we should challenge it far
more often, after all, it is we who are the customers!

omega

.............................
 
A

AnthonyL

If it is to another bank then why would you expect them to "already
know"?

That would mean that your current bank would have been in breach of
the DPA, to have passed that information on.
They needn't pass the information on. If I have a bank account in the
UK that's been opened since the money laundering rules came in then I
must have gone through the money laundering procedure. I would expect
that my credit details at Experian and all the others that hold it
will show that I have made application for an account. My home
details remain unchanged. Assuming that to be the case the old bank
would merely need to confirm to the new bank that the details were as
lodged at the various credit agencies.

I had to go through a similar procedure to access my personal pension.
30+yrs of paying in thank you very much now you want it prove you are
who you say you are.

Surely with all your intellect you can devise a better system?
 
P

Pelican

Alex Heney said:
Yes, but that information will not be shared.



Yes, but that just affects your credit score. The full detail of what
you may or may not have done to prove your identity will not be
included in any credit scores returned to your new bank.,


Most of the details will not have been "lodged" anywhere but at your
old bank.

And your old bank would be in breach of DPA rules if it passed on
those details.

Yes, physically, your old bank could pass on your details to your new
bank, but there is no incentive for them to aid your transfer away
from them, and far from requiring it, the law actually prohibits it.



I'm quite sure there are much better possible systems.

But not with our current laws.

Whether those current laws are either reasonable or at all effective
in their stated aim is another question entirely.
Whatever happened to consent? Some people would be quite happy for relevant
information to be "shared".
 
A

AnthonyL

Whatever happened to consent? Some people would be quite happy for relevant
information to be "shared".
To me it is amazing in an environment where there are so many concerns
about money laundering and in particular for terrorist purposes that
it is not compulsory for such information to be shared. I can apply
for a tax disc and DVLA automatically know that I am insured and have
a valid MOT.

Wierd.
 
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A

AnthonyL

I'm quite sure there are much better possible systems.

But not with our current laws.

Whether those current laws are either reasonable or at all effective
in their stated aim is another question entirely.
Oh well - I'll take all the documents to a branch next week and wonder
what on-line switching is all about.

The most compelling reason I've been given is that it is possible that
I am someone pretending to be me, and then next most compelling reason
is that each financial organisation has itself to be responsible for
the checks it carries out. Not very convinced by either.
 
M

Martin Brown

t

The lack of any credible UK ID card system is a massive hinderance.
Oh well - I'll take all the documents to a branch next week and wonder
what on-line switching is all about.
Online switching is about clueless politicians making sound bites.

Changing or moving bank is always painful and unpredictable. They once
scoofed up another entirely unrelated M.T Brown's current account with
mine giving me two salaries and her no bank account at all when I moved.
The most compelling reason I've been given is that it is possible that
I am someone pretending to be me, and then next most compelling reason
is that each financial organisation has itself to be responsible for
the checks it carries out. Not very convinced by either.
Both are possible scenarios that the bank are supposed to guard against,
but their staff are unlikely to be able to detect a decent quality
forged ID so their procedures are fairly pointless anyway.

The bank just wants to have scans of two pieces of approved ID from list
A and list B that they can wave at the authorities after they have
laundered however much money goes through the rogue account.

It amuses me no end that despite the fact that BMD certificates are
marked "this is not proof of ID" and "Crown Copyright" (do not copy)
that first thing banks do is copy them as ID proof for their files.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
®

®i©ardo

t


The lack of any credible UK ID card system is a massive hinderance.


Online switching is about clueless politicians making sound bites.

Changing or moving bank is always painful and unpredictable. They once
scoofed up another entirely unrelated M.T Brown's current account with
mine giving me two salaries and her no bank account at all when I moved.

Both are possible scenarios that the bank are supposed to guard against,
but their staff are unlikely to be able to detect a decent quality
forged ID so their procedures are fairly pointless anyway.

The bank just wants to have scans of two pieces of approved ID from list
A and list B that they can wave at the authorities after they have
laundered however much money goes through the rogue account.

It amuses me no end that despite the fact that BMD certificates are
marked "this is not proof of ID" and "Crown Copyright" (do not copy)
that first thing banks do is copy them as ID proof for their files.

Regards,
Martin Brown
I had this trouble when I put my house on the market and used a
solicitor who I'd known socially for forty years. I still had to provide
proof for him that I was who I said I was.
 
T

Tim Jackson

On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 17:33:00 +0100, ®i©ardo wrote...
I had this trouble when I put my house on the market and used a
solicitor who I'd known socially for forty years. I still had to provide
proof for him that I was who I said I was.
Last year I attended a seminar about money laundering procedures. The
speaker was a solicitor who said that he'd asked to ask his mother for
proof of identity when he did some work for her.
 
T

Tim Jackson

On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 17:33:00 +0100, ®i©ardo wrote...


Last year I attended a seminar about money laundering procedures. The
speaker was a solicitor who said that he'd asked to ask his mother for
proof of identity when he did some work for her.
Tsk... he'd had to ask his mother for proof of identity...
 
S

Simon Finnigan

Tim Jackson said:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 17:33:00 +0100, ®i©ardo wrote...


Last year I attended a seminar about money laundering procedures. The
speaker was a solicitor who said that he'd asked to ask his mother for
proof of identity when he did some work for her.
My wife and I showed ID to her aunt, who was doing the conveyancing when we
bought our house.
 
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R

Rob

So I finally succumbed to doing an on-line switch of a joint UK bank
account to a similar one with a slightly better offer. No other
changes.

Today I get all the forms necessary to provide to prove I'm who I say
I am. Why? How come they don't already know?
There is an electronic ID check that banks can do. Lloyds and First
Direct used this on me when switching. I don't know how it works but it
requires the right info to be lodged somewhere in the system. If not it
is back to List A and List B. (Not very helpful when they don't publish
the lists - although you can guess - and require the copies to be
certified but have a different list of certifiers to the Passport Office
for example.)
 

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