off-shore accoun


H

Hiram

I know of someone who is on currently benefits, but who holds a
substantial cash sum in an off-shore account.

I presume there is nothing I can do about it?
 
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R

Robbie

Hiram said:
I know of someone who is on currently benefits, but who holds a
substantial cash sum in an off-shore account.

I presume there is nothing I can do about it?
It depends what benefits they are on. Not every benefit is means tested
and those that are do allow you to have a decent amount of savings. But
you can always report them if you are sure they are defrauding the system.
 
F

Fredxx

Hiram said:
I know of someone who is on currently benefits, but who holds a
substantial cash sum in an off-shore account.

I presume there is nothing I can do about it?
How do you know? Have you seen evidence?

I have known snouts to be caught out by being given bogus info.

Privacy laws are great aren't they!! Perhaps we should follow the US
example and publish benefits and tax returns. They have a lesser need for
tax or benefit fraud inpectors.
 
H

Hiram

How do you know?  Have you seen evidence?

I have known snouts to be caught out by being given bogus info.

Privacy laws are great aren't they!!  Perhaps we should follow the US
example and publish benefits and tax returns.  They have a lesser need for
tax or benefit fraud inpectors.
No, not 100% sure he has the cash. But we'd recently been disusing
putting cash off-shore, as I have a Jersey Euro's account. So I have
strong suspicions.

He is definitely on JSA, I am sure of that.
 
H

Hiram

It depends what benefits they are on. Not every benefit is means tested
and those that are do allow you to have a decent amount of savings. But
you can always report them if you are sure they are defrauding the system.
Yes I may report them. But the whole point of having an off-shore
account is that it is invisible to the UK authorities.

So sadly, I guess I'm answering my own question.
 
H

Hiram

It depends what benefits they are on. Not every benefit is means tested
and those that are do allow you to have a decent amount of savings. But
you can always report them if you are sure they are defrauding the system.
Yes I may report them. But the whole point of having an off-shore
account is that it is invisible to the UK authorities.

So sadly, I guess I'm answering my own question.
 
M

mike

No, not 100% sure he has the cash. But we'd recently been disusing
putting cash off-shore, as I have a Jersey Euro's account. So I have
strong suspicions.

He is definitely on JSA, I am sure of that.
If you can provide sufficient info then the DWP will be able to
interview him under caution, if he's a proficient liar he be able to
deny everything however many people aren't, and faced with a true
accusation will own up.

The vague detail you've given here would not interest the DWP at all,
they will simply not investigate but if you can give dates, names of the
bank or figures then they may get interested. The more info they have
the more likely your friend will own up when confronted.

Mike
 
R

Robbie

No, not 100% sure he has the cash. But we'd recently been disusing
putting cash off-shore, as I have a Jersey Euro's account. So I have
strong suspicions.

He is definitely on JSA, I am sure of that.
It depends what type of JSA it is. Means tested JSA is one thing but
there is also a contributions based JSA that can be paid regardless of
savings. A millionaire can receive contributions based JSA.
 
H

Hiram

If you can provide sufficient info then the DWP will be able to
interview him under caution,
I could give institution and rough quantities. And possibly the
currency involved. I only invest in Euro's and Dollars, I think he'd
be the same.

I'll be interested to see how the DWP go about investigating something
like this.

It would also be interesting to see how the law is written in regard
to savings. Insofar as, what constitutes savings. A house is an
asset, yet, that isn't counted I believe. A pension is an investment,
is that counted as saving?

Anyway. I will do some more digging. Do you have a number I can
phone if I get something more substantial?
 
R

Robbie

Hiram said:
I hope they change that in the Comprehensive Spending Review next
month.
Why?

What do you think people pay National Insurance for?
 
M

mike

I could give institution and rough quantities. And possibly the
currency involved. I only invest in Euro's and Dollars, I think he'd
be the same.

I'll be interested to see how the DWP go about investigating something
like this.

It would also be interesting to see how the law is written in regard
to savings. Insofar as, what constitutes savings. A house is an
asset, yet, that isn't counted I believe. A pension is an investment,
is that counted as saving?

Anyway. I will do some more digging. Do you have a number I can
phone if I get something more substantial?
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

The house in which you live is not considered savings, most commonly
property considered as savings belongs to people who have moved
permanently into a care home.

A pension is not considered savings for Pension Credit purposes (not
sure about IS/JSA) but you are expected to draw on it as early as you
can or it can be treated as notional income. That means the pension
entitlement is taken into account as though you are receiving it.

The information you have seems vague, without a bit more it's unlikely
they would even call him in. The fraud teams have standing warrants
which allow them to obtain financial info etc from UK institutions. If
he had the money in a Barclays UK account and moved it overseas they
would be able to see the UK end of the transaction.

If you know where the money was held and when it left the investigators
could get a copy of the statement and ask him to explain.

Mike
 
M

mart2306

I could give institution and rough quantities.  And possibly the
currency involved.  I only invest in Euro's and Dollars, I think he'd
be the same.

I'll be interested to see how the DWP go about investigating something
like this.

It would also be interesting to see how the law is written in regard
to savings. Insofar as, what constitutes savings.   A house is an
asset, yet, that isn't counted I believe.  A pension is an investment,
is that counted as saving?

Anyway.  I will do some more digging.  Do you have a number I can
phone if I get something more substantial?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Depending on how you look at it, a house you are living in can be a
liability rather than an asset. Only becoming an asset when sold.
A 2nd house is an asset as an income can be made from it.

Pensions are an odd area. For most it isn't treated as savings, though
once you start accessing it then the proceeds can be income. For the
few of us who run our own pension scheme, it is savings.
We lose the tax breaks but we do have access to the capital (and
income) while also controlling how and where it is invested.

Martin <><
 
F

Fredxx

Hiram said:
I hope they change that in the Comprehensive Spending Review next
month.
Why? He's probably making a net positive contribution to the treasury.
He's paid NI for the appropriate amount of time. We have enough means
tested benefits which only serve to discourage savings meaning a greater
dependency on benefits.
 
F

Fredxx

mike said:
If you can provide sufficient info then the DWP will be able to
interview him under caution, if he's a proficient liar he be able to
deny everything however many people aren't, and faced with a true
accusation will own up.

The vague detail you've given here would not interest the DWP at all,
they will simply not investigate but if you can give dates, names of
the bank or figures then they may get interested. The more info they
have the more likely your friend will own up when confronted.
If I was this guy I would say I was trying to extract info out of you, as I
was sure you were doing very dodgy deals and HMRC might be interested. I'd
also learn who's windows I should throw a brick through!!
 
H

Hiram

If I was this guy I would say I was trying to extract info out of you, asI
was sure you were doing very dodgy deals and HMRC might be interested.  I'd
also learn who's windows I should throw a brick through!!
I must admit, I was thinking HMRC may be a better choice.
 
H

Hiram

https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

The house in which you live is not considered savings, most commonly
property considered as savings belongs to people who have moved
permanently into a care home.

A pension is not considered savings for Pension Credit purposes (not
sure about IS/JSA) but you are expected to draw on it as early as you
can or it can be treated as notional income.  That means the pension
entitlement is taken into account as though you are receiving it.

The information you have seems vague, without a bit more it's unlikely
they would even call him in.  The fraud teams have standing warrants
which allow them to obtain financial info etc from UK institutions.  If
he had the money in a Barclays UK account and moved it overseas they
would be able to see the UK end of the transaction.

If you know where the money was held and when it left the investigators
could get a copy of the statement and ask him to explain.

Mike
Unfortunately, I disagree with the rules on this one. I think a house
should be counted as saving. I'll concede on a pension - but if you
become unemployed, you should have to sell your house. I think the
rules as they stand are way too complex, personally, I think they need
to be simplified.

We'll see what happens next month, I have a feeling the rules are
likely to get a bit tougher.

I don't think he'd be dumb enough to have an audit trail through a UK
bank. But, you never know.
 
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H

Hiram

Why?

What do you think people pay National Insurance for?
I don't think the NI stamp is sufficient to cover all the benefits you
can receive. The only way you could do that is to time-limit
benefits, which is what most of the rest of the world do.
 

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