Outsourcing and accounting - what's your take on this?


N

NickKnight

As for a safe field, I'd say barbering...
With products like the Flobee is barbering safe?


--------------------------------------------
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another young boy to victimize."
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referring to Justin
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D

Duane Bozarth

NickKnight said:
With products like the Flobee is barbering safe?
Don't have a clue what a "flobee" is, but I don't think they'll be much
offshoring of haircutting... :)
 
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N

NickKnight

Don't have a clue what a "flobee" is, but I don't think they'll be much
offshoring of haircutting... :)
Flowbee is the thing you use to do the haircuts at home. Maybe soon
other products will be created including a computer controlled
system.
--------------------------------------------
"Finally a member of the Jackson family finds
another young boy to victimize."
-------------------------Jimmy Fallon on SNL
referring to Justin
Timberlake

To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from
my e-mail address.
 
R

Ron Todd

Actually, that is the reason.
I'm also not too pleased with Mrs. Teresa Simoes-Ferreira Heinz
Kerry's radical left wing politics.



Best Regards.

*****************************************
Boycott list:

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Trudeau, W.Miller, Disney, ABC news, CBS news, NBC news, CNN, PBS, B&H Photo Video, Heinz
Foods, Ontario & Quebec provinces,

Sometimes the only influence you have is to say, "No, I'm not buying."

For those who are unclear about the situation, California is the Clinton - Davis model for the rest of the United States of America.
 
D

Duane Bozarth

NickKnight said:
Flowbee is the thing you use to do the haircuts at home. Maybe soon
other products will be created including a computer controlled
system.
I assumed as such, but still don't see that it is offshoring the
job...which was, I thought, the point of the thread. That there's a
reduced demand is unquestionable, but that's not the same thing.
Anyway, it <was> a humorous comment only....
 
N

NickKnight

I assumed as such, but still don't see that it is offshoring the
job...which was, I thought, the point of the thread. That there's a
reduced demand is unquestionable, but that's not the same thing.
Anyway, it <was> a humorous comment only....
But the bottom line is the same....the person is unemployed.

I have to wonder with the current wave of offshoring? Will there
be any jobs left in the US? Today with computers/fax machines/email/
Fedex/etc. there could come a day when the US has no jobs left
doing much of anything.

As someone in the accouting field accounting is extremely
susceptable to this current wave.

I have to wonder is there anything an accountant does
that can't be done offshore? IMHO we are rapidly heading to
the point where the answer will be no.


--------------------------------------------
"Finally a member of the Jackson family finds
another young boy to victimize."
-------------------------Jimmy Fallon on SNL
referring to Justin
Timberlake

To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from
my e-mail address.
 
B

Bobster123

From: NickKnight NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com said:
I have to wonder with the current wave of offshoring? Will there
be any jobs left in the US? Today with computers/fax machines/email/
Fedex/etc. there could come a day when the US has no jobs left
doing much of anything.
I believe the Internet is also largely the reason this is happening.
As someone in the accouting field accounting is extremely
susceptable to this current wave.

I have to wonder is there anything an accountant does
that can't be done offshore? IMHO we are rapidly heading to
the point where the answer will be no.
Auditing is the main thing that comes to mind, although if most of the
accounting work is being done overseas, I suspect that's where most of the
auditing will also be done.
 
S

stargazer

They say 2 million jobs are being outsourced overseas? Let's pretend
all of those jobs are for $60,000 a year? Ok, let's tax that amount
by 17% (current social security/medicaid rates) that amounts to over
20 billion dollars a year that is lost to the Social Security System.

The real number is not known, however I've read that some venture the
number might rise to 14 million within the next two years. No wonder
Mr. Greenspan is alarmed, we could be loosing $140 billion a year in
social security revenue?

The White House spokesman recently said that outsourcing the economic
advisor on White House cabinet, who makes $200,000 a year, is the
"wave of the future, just the beginning"?

Ok, lets do the math, substitute 2 million jobs times the maximum
contribution level. Social Security is based on new workers
supporting older workers. If mass numbers of jobs disappear due to
free trade, then Social Security could be wiped out?

I hear a lot of ifs, there had better be an if reversing this course
if it occurs. Taxing telecommunications is the obvious answer, taxing
internet sales is long over due (pay tax based on where the sale is
made, not where the customer is), but is off topic?

One thing that consumers can do without the action of government is to
stop using telecommunication systems that help subsidize these
efforts? Could millions of people canceling their long distance
service make that kind of impact?

I want to support regulated free trade. But there are no guarantees,
and our retirement system is affected by lost jobs. There are also no
guarantees that those who are paid in foreign countries will stay
loyal to the companies that hire and train them, they could actually
take what they know and start their own companies.

If this is a trend, maybe it's something people ought to think about a
little deeper. Maybe foreign workers will import American goods (the
arguement that free trade promotes new jobs and products). Then
again, what is made in America? So much of what "America" makes is
made overseas, exactly what kind of argument is that?

With niche markets, free trade is a wonderful thing. But mass trends
can have a negative side? I can see where free trade, done right,
will raise the standard of living for everyone. I can also see how
free trade could make a few very rich, and almost take the entire
economic system down in the process?

What do you see? I see Mr. Greenspan "alarmed"?
 
R

Ron Todd

On 29 Feb 2004 07:09:26 -0800, (e-mail address removed) (stargazer)
wrote:

....
I hear a lot of ifs, there had better be an if reversing this course
if it occurs. Taxing telecommunications is the obvious answer, taxing
internet sales is long over due
.....

I disagree. I hold to the position that this problem, like all the
ones we have, was caused by government intervention and further
government intervention will only make it worse.



Best Regards.

*****************************************
Boycott list:

Belgium, France, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, PRC, Iran, Syria,
Hollywood, San Francisco, Massachusetts, New York City, Sierra Club, ACLU,
Movies of the first blacklist, Turner, Madonna, S. Crowe, Dixie Chicks, Cher, U2, rapp,
Trudeau, W.Miller, Disney, ABC news, CBS news, NBC news, CNN, PBS, B&H Photo Video, Heinz
Foods, Ontario & Quebec provinces,

Sometimes the only influence you have is to say, "No, I'm not buying."

For those who are unclear about the situation, California is the Clinton - Davis model for the rest of the United States of America.
 
C

Chris Luper

I have to wonder with the current wave of offshoring? Will there
Corporate Tax, Partnerships, Complex Individual Returns.

I can't imagine a corporate executive of any decent sized company being
comfortable with having his return prepared overseas.
 
N

NickKnight

Corporate Tax, Partnerships, Complex Individual Returns.
And there is no reason any of these can't be done offshore.

Some of it is already being done offshore.

I can't imagine a corporate executive of any decent sized company being
comfortable with having his return prepared overseas.
Untill they see how much money they will save.......

Wake up and smell the coffee.....it's already being done in some
cases.

--------------------------------------------
"Finally a member of the Jackson family finds
another young boy to victimize."
-------------------------Jimmy Fallon on SNL
referring to Justin
Timberlake

To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from
my e-mail address.
 
M

Mike

Arnold stated the following concering outsourcing:

" Outsourcing accounting and finance is about as unlikely as anything
I've
ever hear of. Good management won't do it. Morons might try. Good
managers want to know everything that is happening in the company,
the margins, the collections, the cash flow, the profitability, and
on
and on. Good managers need that information daily, from someone
convenient, at their beck and call, someone that jumps when called.
That's not an outside accounting firm with a long list of clients
making
similar demands on their time. If the company is small enough to be
run
by the seat of the pants, it might be ok to outsource certain
accounting
and tax reporting processes, but that's about it. A real business
needs
on-site professional accountants. That will not change. In fact,
it's
becoming more required."

Yes, but you are forgetting that good managers and true management
talent is a very rare quality in business.
 
C

Chris Luper

Corporate Tax, Partnerships, Complex Individual Returns.
And there is no reason any of these can't be done offshore.

Some of it is already being done offshore.


Untill they see how much money they will save.......

Wake up and smell the coffee.....it's already being done in some
cases.

Not many.

We have clients that range in the 50 million to 200 million in sales range, and
I know alot of people in financial management in similar type companies, and
the amount of communication required between the preparers and the company
precludes this work from being outsourced.

Plus, financial management at middle market and larger companies generally have
a very conservative view of their audit and tax situation. There are usually
cheaper alternatives than Big4, but the comfort level that they have with the
larger firms is more important than the fees savings in alot of cases. With
that type of mindset, these people aren't going to be comfortable outsourcing
this work.

That is my take from middle market america working with these type companies.
 
N

NickKnight

We have clients that range in the 50 million to 200 million in sales range, and
I know alot of people in financial management in similar type companies, and
the amount of communication required between the preparers and the company
precludes this work from being outsourced.
Ever heard of email? Fax machines? Telephones? That is rapdidly not
becoming an issue.

Now you can be down the hall or down the continent.
Plus, financial management at middle market and larger companies generally have
a very conservative view of their audit and tax situation.
Until they see how many millions they can save.
There are usually
cheaper alternatives than Big4, but the comfort level that they have with the
larger firms is more important than the fees savings in alot of cases. With
that type of mindset, these people aren't going to be comfortable outsourcing
this work.
Until they see how many millions they can save.


--------------------------------------------
"Finally a member of the Jackson family finds
another young boy to victimize."
-------------------------Jimmy Fallon on SNL
referring to Justin
Timberlake

To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from
my e-mail address.
 
C

Chris Luper

We have clients that range in the 50 million to 200 million in sales range,
and
Ever heard of email? Fax machines? Telephones? That is rapdidly not
becoming an issue.

Now you can be down the hall or down the continent.
I am not talking about means of communication. I am talking about having the
detailed knowledge of the company's books, such having the knowledge to do
forensic accounting when necessary, dealing with the various taxing authorities
when necessary or being able to revamp the company's fixed asset records, for
instance.

Are you going to trust some unknown person from India to get your 382
limitations properly calculated on your NOLs and to provide you with proper tax
strategy advice on how to achieve maximum deferral?

You just aren't going to get that level of service in an outsouring
relationship, and that is what is prized.
Until they see how many millions they can save.
Cost savings is not as big of an incentive as you think it is. We fight this
fight against the Big 4, and the implied prestige carries alot of weight with
the US financial management structure.
 
N

NickKnight

I am not talking about means of communication. I am talking about having the
detailed knowledge of the company's books, such having the knowledge to do
forensic accounting when necessary, dealing with the various taxing authorities
when necessary or being able to revamp the company's fixed asset records, for
instance.
And you can access that knowledge in the office next door or in
hundreds of foreign countries. Every thing on a computer
and someone who knows what they are doing can access the
information in Taiwan as easliy as they can in the next cubicle.

And that person in Taiwan on that computer could easily learn
more about a company than the CEO who works in the
company.

I've worked for too many CEOs who didn't know their ass from
their elbow. They were living proof of the peter principal.....that
people rise to their level of incompentence.





Are you going to trust some unknown person from India to get your 382
limitations properly calculated on your NOLs and to provide you with proper tax
strategy advice on how to achieve maximum deferral?
And if the price is right too many in management would go with the
person in India. Even with penalties for wrong calculations maybe
it is still cheaper to go with the people in India?
You just aren't going to get that level of service in an outsouring
relationship, and that is what is prized.
Yeah i've noticed that level of service. During tax season
I can't reach a co-worker down the hall in this CPA practice
or I can't reach John Smith in India.



--------------------------------------------
"Finally a member of the Jackson family finds
another young boy to victimize."
-------------------------Jimmy Fallon on SNL
referring to Justin
Timberlake

To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from
my e-mail address.
 
S

SBT Bill

Of course they can move all the good paying jobs overseas. That is the goal of
the Bush free marketers after all. That is when they aren't lying to start a
war of revenge and/or graft and personal profit.

I've been voting Libertarian but this year I'm voting for Kerry. It's a mater
of servival and self defense.

Bill Couture
 
S

SBT Bill

With remote desktop you can be anywhere. One job that will last and grow for a
brief time is selling outsourcing. Course after a while no one will be able to
aford it or need it. How much outsourcing do you need to build cardboard
houses under unused bridges?

Bill Couture
 
S

SBT Bill

With picture phones, the internet and the price of gas. Being there is person
takes on a whole new meaning. With my job 90% of the time I'm working alone on
my computer. Maybe 1% of the time it helps that I am there and that is rapidly
declining with the increased speed of the telecomunications system.

Bill Couture
 
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S

SBT Bill

What about when the companies primary books are in India, the manufacturing
plant is in Indonesia, and the only thing in the US is the CFO's office and he
is thinking of moving to Antigua.

Bill Couture
 

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