paying taxes twice before April 15th?


N

none

I filed an extension and I paid the money I thought I owed as I was
not expecting to file my return before April 15th. I have since
discovered, however, that I underpaid what i am going to owe. How do
I go about paying the remainder before April 15th without incurring a
penalty/interest as I would if I waited until I filed my return? Can
I just file a second extension with the remaining payment? Is there a
form to use just to send in a payment in alone? If I file my actual
return before April 15th will I run into any problems since I already
asked for an extension?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.
 
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P

Paul Thomas, CPA

none said:
I filed an extension and I paid the money I thought I owed as I was
not expecting to file my return before April 15th. I have since
discovered, however, that I underpaid what i am going to owe. How do
I go about paying the remainder before April 15th without incurring a
penalty/interest as I would if I waited until I filed my return? Can
I just file a second extension with the remaining payment? Is there a
form to use just to send in a payment in alone?

I'd use Form 1040ES.




If I file my actual return before April 15th will I run into any
problems since I already asked for an extension?


Nope.
 
H

Harlan Lunsford

I'd use Form 1040ES.
At this stage of the game a 1040es coupon is not the way to go. Since
"none" (if that IS his real name!) filed an extension already, he sent
in estimated balance due with the voucher with that form. Simply print
out another voucher, and mail it in with the money.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
 
J

Jonathan Kamens

Paul Thomas said:
none said:
[How do I send in another payment if I underpaid with my
extension request?]
I'd use Form 1040ES.
It seems to me that using 1040ES would muddy the waters in a
potentially dangerous way. A 1040ES sent in now would be
considered late by the IRS, since the last quarter's 1040ES
payment was due by January 15, and might cause the IRS to
expect the taxpayer to do quarterly calculations of his
underpayment.

Why not just send in the payment with form 1040V?

Alternatively, the OP can sign up at www.efpts.gov and make
the payment electronically.
 
P

Paul Thomas, CPA

Jonathan Kamens said:
Paul Thomas said:
none said:
[How do I send in another payment if I underpaid with my
extension request?]
I'd use Form 1040ES.
It seems to me that using 1040ES would muddy the waters in a
potentially dangerous way. A 1040ES sent in now would be
considered late by the IRS, since the last quarter's 1040ES
payment was due by January 15, and might cause the IRS to
expect the taxpayer to do quarterly calculations of his
underpayment.



The OP sent in a payment (don't know the date) and if they are underpaid -
to the point that they should have made quarterly estimated tax deposits -
it doesn't matter how he sends in the payment, it's still late per the
quarterly deposit rules. In fact he could over pay with the 1040V and still
be subjected to a penalty for not making quarterly estimates.

I don't see the IRS getting tripped up over a late filed 1040ES any more
than a second 1040V, any more than attaching the payment to a piece of paper
with a note about how the initial amount was computed short. They're going
to record the payment as of the date postmarked or the date received (or
both).

Any penalties for not making estimates (if they were required) will be based
on the amount of the tax and the date the payment was received.
 
B

Barry Margolin

Paul Thomas said:
The OP sent in a payment (don't know the date) and if they are underpaid -
to the point that they should have made quarterly estimated tax deposits -
it doesn't matter how he sends in the payment, it's still late per the
quarterly deposit rules.
The OP is talking about his 2007 taxes, which aren't due until April 15,
2008. So how can he be late already?

Whether he's required to make quarterly estimated payments for 2008 is a
totally unrelated matter, and depends on his withholdings for 2008.
 
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S

Seth

Paul Thomas said:
The OP sent in a payment (don't know the date) and if they are underpaid -
to the point that they should have made quarterly estimated tax deposits -
it doesn't matter how he sends in the payment, it's still late per the
quarterly deposit rules. In fact he could over pay with the 1040V and still
be subjected to a penalty for not making quarterly estimates.
But it's quite possible that the OP has a safe harbor (e.g. withheld
during 2007 exceeds taxes owed for 2006 + 10%), and still owes a lot
for 2007. Then he underpaid with the first 1040V.

Seth
 
P

Paul Thomas

Seth said:
But it's quite possible that the OP has a safe harbor (e.g. withheld
during 2007 exceeds taxes owed for 2006 + 10%), and still owes a lot
for 2007. Then he underpaid with the first 1040V.


Anything is possible. If that is the case, then he could use a 1040ES
without fail, or a 1040V, or just send in a check with his SSN and "2007
Form 1040" on it. The IRS seems pretty adept at cashing them.
 
D

D. Stussy

Harlan Lunsford said:
At this stage of the game a 1040es coupon is not the way to go. Since
"none" (if that IS his real name!) filed an extension already, he sent
in estimated balance due with the voucher with that form. Simply print
out another voucher, and mail it in with the money.
I agree. I'd use a 1040-V.
 
H

Harlan Lunsford

Paul said:
Anything is possible. If that is the case, then he could use a 1040ES
without fail, or a 1040V, or just send in a check with his SSN and "2007
Form 1040" on it. The IRS seems pretty adept at cashing them.
No doubt as to that. You can even make your check out to Georgia
Department of Revenue and send it to IRS and they'll cash it. Oh, and
vice versa of course.
Nobody looks at anything!

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
 
P

Paultry

D. Stussy said:
I agree. I'd use a 1040-V.
Especially since an ES payment at this time would probably
be applied to 2008, no matter the date on the form.
 
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P

Paultry

Harlan said:
No doubt as to that. You can even make your check out to Georgia
Department of Revenue and send it to IRS and they'll cash it. Oh, and
vice versa of course.
Nobody looks at anything!
I once dealt with a taxpayer who had a misapplied payment
issue. He faxed a copy of the canceled check to the service
center. They couldn't read the DLN on the fax so asked him
to send the original. He did. They deposited the canceled
check, It, of course, bounced at his bank. They assessed a
bad check penalty. |-{
 
P

Paul Thomas, CPA

Harlan Lunsford said:
No doubt as to that. You can even make your check out to Georgia
Department of Revenue and send it to IRS and they'll cash it. Oh, and
vice versa of course.
Nobody looks at anything!




Actually they've gotten a little better as of late. A client of mine sent
in both her georgia and federal payments to the IRS, Georgia assessed a late
payment penalty and interest. She brought the notice by here, we sent her
back out to get copies of the canceled check that she swore she wrote, of
course, in her mail that day was an envelope from the IRS with her Georgia
check in it. We convinced the state to abate the penalties, she forked over
for the interest and was grateful that lesson was a cheap one.
 
S

Seth

Anything is possible. If that is the case, then he could use a 1040ES
without fail,
If he sends a 1040ES for 2007 at this late date, wouldn't that cause
problems (with the IRS considering it to be for 2008)?

Seth
 
H

Harlan Lunsford

Seth said:
If he sends a 1040ES for 2007 at this late date, wouldn't that cause
problems (with the IRS considering it to be for 2008)?

Seth
Not if he uses the only 1040ES available at the moment which is clearly
proclaimed upper right as being "2 0 0 7".

Now for 2008, the 1040es vouchers won't be in the mail until about April
1st so I hear.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
 
D

DF2

Not if he uses the only 1040ES available at the moment which is clearly
proclaimed upper right as being "2 0 0 7".

Now for 2008, the 1040es vouchers won't be in the mail until about April
1st so I hear.
I got my pre-printed ones in the mail a week or two ago.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf has 2008 for download.
He needs the 2007. I could not find that on the IRS site currently,
but that does not mean it is not there.
 
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H

Harlan Lunsford

DF2 said:
I got my pre-printed ones in the mail a week or two ago.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf has 2008 for download.
He needs the 2007. I could not find that on the IRS site currently,
but that does not mean it is not there.
It's there. Find listing for forms, an scroll through the box to
1040es. then at bottom, click on "retrieve", and presto! there it is,
in pdf.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
 
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S

Seth

Not if he uses the only 1040ES available at the moment which is clearly
proclaimed upper right as being "2 0 0 7".
There's maybe a 99% chance that the IRS will get it right. Given the
difference in cost between using that and using the 1040V, why risk
it?

Seth
 

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