Phantom Transaction Downloaded by Quicken Deluxe 2012


M

Margaret

I'm pretty happy with QD2012. This is the first version where I've been
able to successfully use Express Web Connect (or whatever it's called).
It seems it really depends on the financial institution whether or not
EWC works consistently. Anyway, I've been using it with my relatively
new Alliant Credit Union accounts.

But today, Quicken downloaded what I'm calling a phantom transaction.
My checking account received a supposed deposit from my savings account
dated 12/15/2011. Not only was there no matching transaction downloaded
to my savings account, but I'd never scheduled any such transfer. I
logged into the ACU web site, and confirmed that my accounts showed no
such activity.

Next I called ACU's customer service, and the rep also confirmed no such
transfer had occurred. He said he'd forward this on to the department
that handles Quicken, etc.

Has anyone else seen this behavior with Quicken and Alliant Credit Union?

Regards,

Margaret
 
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J

John Pollard

"Margaret"

I'm pretty happy with QD2012. This is the first version where I've been
able to successfully use Express Web Connect (or whatever it's called).
It seems it really depends on the financial institution whether or not
EWC works consistently. Anyway, I've been using it with my relatively
new Alliant Credit Union accounts.

But today, Quicken downloaded what I'm calling a phantom transaction.
My checking account received a supposed deposit from my savings account
dated 12/15/2011. Not only was there no matching transaction downloaded
to my savings account, but I'd never scheduled any such transfer. I
logged into the ACU web site, and confirmed that my accounts showed no
such activity.

Next I called ACU's customer service, and the rep also confirmed no such
transfer had occurred. He said he'd forward this on to the department
that handles Quicken, etc.

Has anyone else seen this behavior with Quicken and Alliant Credit Union?

----------------------------------------------------

I think this is the first I have heard of someone getting a transaction that
never occurred. I have no personal experience like it, nor do I recall
reading of such a thing.

Have you tried doing a plain Web Connect download from the account (probably
to a test Quicken file) to see if the phantom transaction appears there?

There are two different methods EWC can use to get your data.

In one method, the financial institution provides a "back door" for Intuit;
which basically allows the Intuit EWC servers to logon to your account and
initiate a Web Connect download. In that case, the data is
selected/formatted by the financial institution just as they would if you
did a true Web Connect download. The financial institution would be the
source of incorrect data when this method is employed.

When the fi doesn't provide a back door, Intuit has to use screen scraping
to get the data. Intuit selects and formats the data to be downloaded.
Intuit would be responsible for incorrect data when screen scraping is used.

You can probably tell which method was employed by looking at your OFXlog
from the download. I think you would find a record in that log that says,
"QFX_enabled='T'" when back door Web Connect is used.

In any event, I suggest you try contacting Quicken tech support with the
problem (especially if QFX_enabled is not "T"); they should (eventually) ask
you for your log files (OFXlog and CONNLOG, I think), which Intuit can use
to help determine the cause of the problem, and to fix the EWC script.
 
J

JMc

Margaret,
I have no experience with ACU, but you mention it is a relatively recent
relationship. I've had some recent experience setting up intra-FI linkage
relationships where the FI forced a sort of ping between the two. No $$
exchanged, Customer support seemed oblivious to it, and within a day,
usually less, even the FI's web site had disavowed the existence of the
transaction.

Currently, my Wells Fargo relationship is such that I get no charges for
checking, savings, nor Quicken online access. But every month their process
registers a charge to each of my accounts, followed immediately by a like
credit. Then an hour or so later, all transaction history of these events
are masked from my access either via web site, web connect, or direct
Quicken access. I guess, but can't find anyone who will confirm, that they
run some sort of post-processing to clean up their records. Only in very
rare instances will my random timed Quicken Direct connect capture the
transaction. The always net to zero, but never reconcile as they no longer
exist in any customer visible register.

Just by way of food for thought,
Jere
 
J

John Pollard

"Margaret" wrote

The only log files I have in my Quicken data directory are
qfilenameOFXLOG.DAT and qfilenameOFXOLD.DAT. (Should I be looking
elsewhere for CONNLOG?) I opened each with a text editor, but they look
like HEX files. Consequently I see nothing like the "QFX_enabled='T'"
(or any other text strings) you mention. Regardless, I've since run OSU
several times, so the log files that most likely contain info related to
the phantom transaction have been long overwritten. <slaps forehead> I
didn't even *think* about saving the log files! :-(

I did just try a regular Web Connect download, and the spurious
transaction was not there. Also, after I deleted the phantom
transaction from the OSU download (without accepting it), Quicken
successfully balanced my account *without* the phantom transaction.
Strangely enough the transaction looked authentic.

Unfortunately it didn't occur to me the error might be the fault of
Quicken, so I didn't save any evidence of the anomaly because I'd spoken
with ACU.
------------------------------------------------------

To read the log files, use Quicken Help > Log Files. Choose OFXlog or
Connlog.

[You can also Save the OFXlog to a TXT file from there; often (for some
financial institutions) you can use Word (or similar) to help make the
OFXlog more readable. And the Connlog file is already a TXT file, so it can
be read with Notepad, as well as from Quicken Help.]

The OFXlog, as you now know, is in the folder where the Quicken data
resides. The Connlog (for Win 7) is in:

C:\Users\YourWindowsUserName\Application Data\Intuit\Quicken\Log

Normally I would say: To capture appropriate log files, you should be able
to create a New test Quicken file (in a separate folder), and do an EWC for
the one account in that new file, then save the log files. You could rename
the Connlog file just before starting the download, then it should only
contain data from the one download ... though this probably isn't necessary
for Intuit's purposes.

But there is some reason to believe that this may confuse the issue. As I
understand it, when you setup the download in a new Quicken file; Intuit
creates a new user-profile for that account/file on its EWC server. Under
some conditions, it seems, this interferes with Intuit's ability to analyze
the problem and construct a solution. I have not had the problem so I can't
speak from experience, and my memory may not be completely accurate here.
This is more in the way of a heads-up, in case you get some response from
Intuit that your log files were not valid.

I believe the fact that you don't see the problem with a plain Web Connect
download tends to confirm the fi's claim that it's not their problem, and to
indicate an Intuit screen scrape problem.
 
B

Bob Wang

Margaret:
I've been with Alliant CU for about 4 years now.
Up till 2011, EWC had been working fine.

I no longer use EWC with Alliant, only Web Connect.
Problems started happening with EWC this summer.
I have 2 separate member numbers, personal and business accounts.

Alliant EWC started downloading business transactions into my personal
accounts, and vice versa.
The first time it happened, I assumed I must have messed up somewhere in
associating accounts for download.

After it kept on happening, I knew it wasn't my fault.
It got so bad that I just stopped using EWC completely, and manually do Web
Connect downloads.

On top of that fiasco, Alliant stopped supporting EWC for Roth and
Traditional IRAs.
Bob
 
M

Margaret

John said:
The only log files I have in my Quicken data directory are
qfilenameOFXLOG.DAT and qfilenameOFXOLD.DAT. (Should I be looking
elsewhere for CONNLOG?) I opened each with a text editor, but they look
like HEX files. Consequently I see nothing like the "QFX_enabled='T'"
(or any other text strings) you mention. Regardless, I've since run OSU
several times, so the log files that most likely contain info related to
the phantom transaction have been long overwritten. <slaps forehead> I
didn't even *think* about saving the log files! :-(

I did just try a regular Web Connect download, and the spurious
transaction was not there. Also, after I deleted the phantom
transaction from the OSU download (without accepting it), Quicken
successfully balanced my account *without* the phantom transaction.
Strangely enough the transaction looked authentic.

Unfortunately it didn't occur to me the error might be the fault of
Quicken, so I didn't save any evidence of the anomaly because I'd spoken
with ACU.
------------------------------------------------------

To read the log files, use Quicken Help > Log Files. Choose OFXlog or
Connlog.

[You can also Save the OFXlog to a TXT file from there; often (for some
financial institutions) you can use Word (or similar) to help make the
OFXlog more readable. And the Connlog file is already a TXT file, so it
can be read with Notepad, as well as from Quicken Help.]

The OFXlog, as you now know, is in the folder where the Quicken data
resides. The Connlog (for Win 7) is in:

C:\Users\YourWindowsUserName\Application Data\Intuit\Quicken\Log

Normally I would say: To capture appropriate log files, you should be
able to create a New test Quicken file (in a separate folder), and do an
EWC for the one account in that new file, then save the log files. You
could rename the Connlog file just before starting the download, then it
should only contain data from the one download ... though this probably
isn't necessary for Intuit's purposes.

But there is some reason to believe that this may confuse the issue. As
I understand it, when you setup the download in a new Quicken file;
Intuit creates a new user-profile for that account/file on its EWC
server. Under some conditions, it seems, this interferes with Intuit's
ability to analyze the problem and construct a solution. I have not had
the problem so I can't speak from experience, and my memory may not be
completely accurate here. This is more in the way of a heads-up, in case
you get some response from Intuit that your log files were not valid.

I believe the fact that you don't see the problem with a plain Web
Connect download tends to confirm the fi's claim that it's not their
problem, and to indicate an Intuit screen scrape problem.
Thanks for the tips, John. I've figured Quicken was using the backdoor
method for the simple reason that ACU transactions appear on the web
site several hours before an EWC download detects them. The odd thing
is that if a new transaction is listed on the web site but not yet
downloaded via EWC, manually reconciling to the online balance will only
balance if I marked the not-yet-downloaded transaction as cleared.

But perhaps this is one of the EWC issues with Alliant Credit Union
noted by Bob Wang.

Regards,

Margaret
 
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M

Margaret

Very interesting indeed, Jere! More food for thought. :)

Regards,

Margaret
 
M

Margaret

Thanks for the reply, Bob. I opened my ACU accounts 11/1/2011. I
noticed fairly quickly that often a new transaction would show up on the
web site several hours before Quicken received it via EWC.
Nevertheless, manually reconciling to the online balance necessitated my
marking the not-yet-downloaded transaction cleared.

I hadn't noticed any other issues till the phantom transaction showed
up. When I tested plain old web connect yesterday and I attempted to
download the transactions without first saving them to a file, Quicken
displayed a message that it was "installing" and then displayed an error
that it had some problem with the PDF printer. When I download the
transactions to a file and then double-click it to open Quicken, there's
no error message, and Quicken imports the transactions just fine. I
realize this issue is most likely a Quicken and/or Windows problem, but
I just thought I'd mention it.

Perhaps I'll give up on EWC, use plain old web connect and download to a
file.

Regards,

Margaret
 
J

John Pollard

"Margaret"

Thanks for the tips, John. I've figured Quicken was using the backdoor
method for the simple reason that ACU transactions appear on the web
site several hours before an EWC download detects them. The odd thing
is that if a new transaction is listed on the web site but not yet
downloaded via EWC, manually reconciling to the online balance will only
balance if I marked the not-yet-downloaded transaction as cleared.

-------------------------------------------

EWC only picks up transactions once every 24 hours.

Don't know how/how often the online balance is obtained for EWC, nor whether
your fi supplies the "available balance" or the "cleared balance".

When you notice an apparent discrepancy, you could try doing an Update Now
for the specific account.
 
A

Al

Margaret,
I have no experience with ACU, but you mention it is a relatively recent
relationship.  I've had some recent experience setting up intra-FI linkage
relationships where the FI forced a sort of ping between the two.  No $$
exchanged, Customer support seemed oblivious to it, and within a day,
usually less, even the FI's web site had disavowed the existence of the
transaction.

Currently, my Wells Fargo relationship is such that I get no charges for
checking, savings, nor Quicken online access.  But every month their process
registers a charge to each of my accounts, followed immediately by a like
credit.  Then an hour or so later, all transaction history of these events
are masked from my access either via web site, web connect, or direct
Quicken access.  I guess, but can't find anyone who will confirm, that they
run some sort of post-processing to clean up their records.  Only in very
rare instances will my random timed Quicken Direct connect capture the
transaction.  The always net to zero, but never reconcile as they no longer
exist in any customer visible register.

Just by way of food for thought,
Jere
[Qkn Dlx 2011 on Vista Ultimate 2-bit SP2]

I also use Wells Fargo, and not only notice now the charges and
reversals, but that they started with a bang, in that I received three
sets of pairings - going back three months (September, October,
November) - before settling in for the monthly stuff.

I talked with a WF rep and they stated that they have charges for a
whole host of account types, and are placing the charges right after
closing a monthly cycle. At the end of that cycle, they see if each
account warrants exemption (i.e., fitting the list of conditions that
make the account "free", such as exceeding a minimum daily balance, or
having some total sum considering checking and savings accounts,
etc.), and if the account fits the "free bill" a reversal of charges
is recorded.

THEREFORE, I have - just MY way of dealing with this - entered
appropriate charges and reversals in the Qkn Bill and Income Reminders
which are entered automatically at beginning and end of cycle, so that
there is something for the downloaded stuff to match. For the record,
all my checking and savings accounts are affected.

I would sigh for the "good old days" at Wachovia, except it would be
a shallow feeling, as we started with Union Trust in Baltimore in the
'60s, which went then through a series of changes over the decades -
including Signet, First Union, and whatever else I can't remember
anymore.

Happy New Year to all !!
 
M

Margaret

John said:
"Margaret"

Thanks for the tips, John. I've figured Quicken was using the backdoor
method for the simple reason that ACU transactions appear on the web
site several hours before an EWC download detects them. The odd thing
is that if a new transaction is listed on the web site but not yet
downloaded via EWC, manually reconciling to the online balance will only
balance if I marked the not-yet-downloaded transaction as cleared.
Makes sense now that I think about it. Duh on me! ;-)
Don't know how/how often the online balance is obtained for EWC, nor
whether your fi supplies the "available balance" or the "cleared balance".

When you notice an apparent discrepancy, you could try doing an Update
Now for the specific account.
Yes, after a discrepancy, I've done an "update now," but it still
doesn't download the transaction. It may be due to the time of day,
haven't paid that much attention. :)

Thx!

Margaret
 
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M

Margaret

Al said:
Margaret,
I have no experience with ACU, but you mention it is a relatively recent
relationship. I've had some recent experience setting up intra-FI linkage
relationships where the FI forced a sort of ping between the two. No $$
exchanged, Customer support seemed oblivious to it, and within a day,
usually less, even the FI's web site had disavowed the existence of the
transaction.

Currently, my Wells Fargo relationship is such that I get no charges for
checking, savings, nor Quicken online access. But every month their process
registers a charge to each of my accounts, followed immediately by a like
credit. Then an hour or so later, all transaction history of these events
are masked from my access either via web site, web connect, or direct
Quicken access. I guess, but can't find anyone who will confirm, that they
run some sort of post-processing to clean up their records. Only in very
rare instances will my random timed Quicken Direct connect capture the
transaction. The always net to zero, but never reconcile as they no longer
exist in any customer visible register.

Just by way of food for thought,
Jere
[Qkn Dlx 2011 on Vista Ultimate 2-bit SP2]

I also use Wells Fargo, and not only notice now the charges and
reversals, but that they started with a bang, in that I received three
sets of pairings - going back three months (September, October,
November) - before settling in for the monthly stuff.

I talked with a WF rep and they stated that they have charges for a
whole host of account types, and are placing the charges right after
closing a monthly cycle. At the end of that cycle, they see if each
account warrants exemption (i.e., fitting the list of conditions that
make the account "free", such as exceeding a minimum daily balance, or
having some total sum considering checking and savings accounts,
etc.), and if the account fits the "free bill" a reversal of charges
is recorded.

THEREFORE, I have - just MY way of dealing with this - entered
appropriate charges and reversals in the Qkn Bill and Income Reminders
which are entered automatically at beginning and end of cycle, so that
there is something for the downloaded stuff to match. For the record,
all my checking and savings accounts are affected.

I would sigh for the "good old days" at Wachovia, except it would be
a shallow feeling, as we started with Union Trust in Baltimore in the
'60s, which went then through a series of changes over the decades -
including Signet, First Union, and whatever else I can't remember
anymore.

Happy New Year to all !!
Why not go with a credit union and save the bank fee hassles?

Regards,

Margaret
 
S

Sharx3335

Margaret said:
Al said:
Margaret,
I have no experience with ACU, but you mention it is a
relatively recent
relationship. I've had some recent experience setting up
intra-FI linkage
relationships where the FI forced a sort of ping between the
two. No $$
exchanged, Customer support seemed oblivious to it, and within
a day,
usually less, even the FI's web site had disavowed the
existence of the
transaction.

Currently, my Wells Fargo relationship is such that I get no
charges for
checking, savings, nor Quicken online access. But every month
their process
registers a charge to each of my accounts, followed immediately
by a like
credit. Then an hour or so later, all transaction history of
these events
are masked from my access either via web site, web connect, or
direct
Quicken access. I guess, but can't find anyone who will
confirm, that they
run some sort of post-processing to clean up their records.
Only in very
rare instances will my random timed Quicken Direct connect
capture the
transaction. The always net to zero, but never reconcile as
they no longer
exist in any customer visible register.

Just by way of food for thought,
Jere





I'm pretty happy with QD2012. This is the first version where
I've been
able to successfully use Express Web Connect (or whatever it's
called). It
seems it really depends on the financial institution whether
or not EWC
works consistently. Anyway, I've been using it with my
relatively new
Alliant Credit Union accounts.

But today, Quicken downloaded what I'm calling a phantom
transaction. My
checking account received a supposed deposit from my savings
account dated
12/15/2011. Not only was there no matching transaction
downloaded to my
savings account, but I'd never scheduled any such transfer. I
logged into
the ACU web site, and confirmed that my accounts showed no
such activity.

Next I called ACU's customer service, and the rep also
confirmed no such
transfer had occurred. He said he'd forward this on to the
department
that handles Quicken, etc.

Has anyone else seen this behavior with Quicken and Alliant
Credit Union?

Regards,

Margaret
[Qkn Dlx 2011 on Vista Ultimate 2-bit SP2]

I also use Wells Fargo, and not only notice now the charges and
reversals, but that they started with a bang, in that I received
three
sets of pairings - going back three months (September, October,
November) - before settling in for the monthly stuff.

I talked with a WF rep and they stated that they have charges
for a
whole host of account types, and are placing the charges right
after
closing a monthly cycle. At the end of that cycle, they see if
each
account warrants exemption (i.e., fitting the list of conditions
that
make the account "free", such as exceeding a minimum daily
balance, or
having some total sum considering checking and savings accounts,
etc.), and if the account fits the "free bill" a reversal of
charges
is recorded.

THEREFORE, I have - just MY way of dealing with this - entered
appropriate charges and reversals in the Qkn Bill and Income
Reminders
which are entered automatically at beginning and end of cycle,
so that
there is something for the downloaded stuff to match. For the
record,
all my checking and savings accounts are affected.

I would sigh for the "good old days" at Wachovia, except it
would be
a shallow feeling, as we started with Union Trust in Baltimore
in the
'60s, which went then through a series of changes over the
decades -
including Signet, First Union, and whatever else I can't
remember
anymore.

Happy New Year to all !!
Why not go with a credit union and save the bank fee hassles?

Regards,

Margaret
If *I* had been the one to suggest that option, Margaret, by now
several self-righteous types in this newsgroup would have already
posted excoriating attacks on me for trying to force MY way onto
other people. Your suggestion, of course, makes a lot of sense.
However, the sensitive types here might interpret it as a judgment
that anyone who deals with a bank, rather than a credit union, is
stupid.
 
M

Margaret

Sharx3335 said:
Margaret said:
Al said:
Margaret,
I have no experience with ACU, but you mention it is a relatively
recent
relationship. I've had some recent experience setting up intra-FI
linkage
relationships where the FI forced a sort of ping between the two. No $$
exchanged, Customer support seemed oblivious to it, and within a day,
usually less, even the FI's web site had disavowed the existence of the
transaction.

Currently, my Wells Fargo relationship is such that I get no charges
for
checking, savings, nor Quicken online access. But every month their
process
registers a charge to each of my accounts, followed immediately by a
like
credit. Then an hour or so later, all transaction history of these
events
are masked from my access either via web site, web connect, or direct
Quicken access. I guess, but can't find anyone who will confirm,
that they
run some sort of post-processing to clean up their records. Only in
very
rare instances will my random timed Quicken Direct connect capture the
transaction. The always net to zero, but never reconcile as they no
longer
exist in any customer visible register.

Just by way of food for thought,
Jere





I'm pretty happy with QD2012. This is the first version where I've
been
able to successfully use Express Web Connect (or whatever it's
called). It
seems it really depends on the financial institution whether or not
EWC
works consistently. Anyway, I've been using it with my relatively new
Alliant Credit Union accounts.

But today, Quicken downloaded what I'm calling a phantom
transaction. My
checking account received a supposed deposit from my savings
account dated
12/15/2011. Not only was there no matching transaction downloaded
to my
savings account, but I'd never scheduled any such transfer. I
logged into
the ACU web site, and confirmed that my accounts showed no such
activity.

Next I called ACU's customer service, and the rep also confirmed no
such
transfer had occurred. He said he'd forward this on to the department
that handles Quicken, etc.

Has anyone else seen this behavior with Quicken and Alliant Credit
Union?

Regards,

Margaret

[Qkn Dlx 2011 on Vista Ultimate 2-bit SP2]

I also use Wells Fargo, and not only notice now the charges and
reversals, but that they started with a bang, in that I received three
sets of pairings - going back three months (September, October,
November) - before settling in for the monthly stuff.

I talked with a WF rep and they stated that they have charges for a
whole host of account types, and are placing the charges right after
closing a monthly cycle. At the end of that cycle, they see if each
account warrants exemption (i.e., fitting the list of conditions that
make the account "free", such as exceeding a minimum daily balance, or
having some total sum considering checking and savings accounts,
etc.), and if the account fits the "free bill" a reversal of charges
is recorded.

THEREFORE, I have - just MY way of dealing with this - entered
appropriate charges and reversals in the Qkn Bill and Income Reminders
which are entered automatically at beginning and end of cycle, so that
there is something for the downloaded stuff to match. For the record,
all my checking and savings accounts are affected.

I would sigh for the "good old days" at Wachovia, except it would be
a shallow feeling, as we started with Union Trust in Baltimore in the
'60s, which went then through a series of changes over the decades -
including Signet, First Union, and whatever else I can't remember
anymore.

Happy New Year to all !!
Why not go with a credit union and save the bank fee hassles?

Regards,

Margaret
If *I* had been the one to suggest that option, Margaret, by now several
self-righteous types in this newsgroup would have already posted
excoriating attacks on me for trying to force MY way onto other people.
Your suggestion, of course, makes a lot of sense. However, the sensitive
types here might interpret it as a judgment that anyone who deals with a
bank, rather than a credit union, is stupid.
Well you know, Sharx, readers' interpretations of postings do have a
tendency to incorporate the poster's history of group interactions.

I read some years ago that one poor interaction takes a much greater
number (something like 10, though I don't recall the exact figure) of
positive interactions to counteract it. Now I do recall you reformed
your posting attitude sometime ago, but my question is, has that new
attitude been pervasive enough to earn some trust in this group?

No judgment intended here or in my prior question of why not switch to a
credit union. Just something to ponder as we approach the new year. :)

Regards,

Margaret
 
A

Andrew

Margaret said:
Sharx3335 said:
Margaret said:
Al wrote:
Margaret,
I have no experience with ACU, but you mention it is a relatively
recent
relationship. I've had some recent experience setting up intra-FI
linkage
relationships where the FI forced a sort of ping between the two.
No $$
exchanged, Customer support seemed oblivious to it, and within a day,
usually less, even the FI's web site had disavowed the existence of
the
transaction.

Currently, my Wells Fargo relationship is such that I get no charges
for
checking, savings, nor Quicken online access. But every month their
process
registers a charge to each of my accounts, followed immediately by a
like
credit. Then an hour or so later, all transaction history of these
events
are masked from my access either via web site, web connect, or direct
Quicken access. I guess, but can't find anyone who will confirm,
that they
run some sort of post-processing to clean up their records. Only in
very
rare instances will my random timed Quicken Direct connect capture the
transaction. The always net to zero, but never reconcile as they no
longer
exist in any customer visible register.

Just by way of food for thought,
Jere





I'm pretty happy with QD2012. This is the first version where I've
been
able to successfully use Express Web Connect (or whatever it's
called). It
seems it really depends on the financial institution whether or not
EWC
works consistently. Anyway, I've been using it with my relatively new
Alliant Credit Union accounts.

But today, Quicken downloaded what I'm calling a phantom
transaction. My
checking account received a supposed deposit from my savings
account dated
12/15/2011. Not only was there no matching transaction downloaded
to my
savings account, but I'd never scheduled any such transfer. I
logged into
the ACU web site, and confirmed that my accounts showed no such
activity.

Next I called ACU's customer service, and the rep also confirmed no
such
transfer had occurred. He said he'd forward this on to the department
that handles Quicken, etc.

Has anyone else seen this behavior with Quicken and Alliant Credit
Union?

Regards,

Margaret

[Qkn Dlx 2011 on Vista Ultimate 2-bit SP2]

I also use Wells Fargo, and not only notice now the charges and
reversals, but that they started with a bang, in that I received three
sets of pairings - going back three months (September, October,
November) - before settling in for the monthly stuff.

I talked with a WF rep and they stated that they have charges for a
whole host of account types, and are placing the charges right after
closing a monthly cycle. At the end of that cycle, they see if each
account warrants exemption (i.e., fitting the list of conditions that
make the account "free", such as exceeding a minimum daily balance, or
having some total sum considering checking and savings accounts,
etc.), and if the account fits the "free bill" a reversal of charges
is recorded.

THEREFORE, I have - just MY way of dealing with this - entered
appropriate charges and reversals in the Qkn Bill and Income Reminders
which are entered automatically at beginning and end of cycle, so that
there is something for the downloaded stuff to match. For the record,
all my checking and savings accounts are affected.

I would sigh for the "good old days" at Wachovia, except it would be
a shallow feeling, as we started with Union Trust in Baltimore in the
'60s, which went then through a series of changes over the decades -
including Signet, First Union, and whatever else I can't remember
anymore.

Happy New Year to all !!

Why not go with a credit union and save the bank fee hassles?

Regards,

Margaret
If *I* had been the one to suggest that option, Margaret, by now several
self-righteous types in this newsgroup would have already posted
excoriating attacks on me for trying to force MY way onto other people.
Your suggestion, of course, makes a lot of sense. However, the sensitive
types here might interpret it as a judgment that anyone who deals with a
bank, rather than a credit union, is stupid.
Well you know, Sharx, readers' interpretations of postings do have a
tendency to incorporate the poster's history of group interactions.

I read some years ago that one poor interaction takes a much greater
number (something like 10, though I don't recall the exact figure) of
positive interactions to counteract it. Now I do recall you reformed
your posting attitude sometime ago, but my question is, has that new
attitude been pervasive enough to earn some trust in this group?

No judgment intended here or in my prior question of why not switch to a
credit union. Just something to ponder as we approach the new year. :)

Regards,

Margaret
<rant_on>
I've been expounding credit union membership here in this NG for longer
than anyone else I believe; the only valid reason (in my opinion) that
I've heard that people stay with commercial banks was one comment about
lack of a CU in their area that seemed to have its act together in their
systems and people. And if that's the case, get involved as a lay
leader and fix it! CUs are always looking for volunteers such as
committee members and directors.

The only thing my local CU does not do is safe deposit boxes, so I
maintain a small (non-interest baring) account at a local Chase for that
purpose. (And even there, they bought out Bank of NY branch operations
and terminated the little interest I used to receive in my
account...another reason I hate commercial banks. They are NOT customer
oriented.)

Why individuals bank at a for-profit commercial savings bank vs. a NPO
CU is beyond me.

http://www.cuna.org/gov_affairs/legislative/cu_difference.html contains
more information. And despite the appearances, I am not employed at one.
</rant_on>
 
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M

Margaret

Andrew said:
<rant_on>
I've been expounding credit union membership here in this NG for longer
than anyone else I believe; the only valid reason (in my opinion) that
I've heard that people stay with commercial banks was one comment about
lack of a CU in their area that seemed to have its act together in their
systems and people. And if that's the case, get involved as a lay leader
and fix it! CUs are always looking for volunteers such as committee
members and directors.

The only thing my local CU does not do is safe deposit boxes, so I
maintain a small (non-interest baring) account at a local Chase for that
purpose. (And even there, they bought out Bank of NY branch operations
and terminated the little interest I used to receive in my
account...another reason I hate commercial banks. They are NOT customer
oriented.)

Why individuals bank at a for-profit commercial savings bank vs. a NPO
CU is beyond me.

http://www.cuna.org/gov_affairs/legislative/cu_difference.html contains
more information. And despite the appearances, I am not employed at one.
</rant_on>
When I went to college at Michigan State, they had (and still have) a
great credit union. At that time, the didn't allow students to join. I
was stuck with banks, and the fees they charged us poor students then
were outrageous! Two years later, the CU welcomed student members, and
I joined immediately. Over the past 30 years, they've expanded greatly,
and fortunately for me, they offer safe deposit boxes. Although their
rates are not as generous as some other credit unions, there are no
fees, and they have a large ATM network that participates with other
credit unions.

So I've been sold on credit unions for quite some time. I even had my
mortgage at the credit union until some of the big banks offered even
more competitive rates, so I refinanced once again. I've been reading
about how great Alliant Credit Union is for quite a while, and a few
months ago, I finally joined. It seems that credit unions are loosening
their membership requirements, and some even have loopholes that make
joining even easier.

Alliant's rates are very good considering the state of our economy, and
once again, there are few fees. The fees they do have are not that
terrible, and they're well documented, so it's easy to avoid fees.

I don't understand the turn-off re credit unions, because IMNSHO, their
benefits are many, and unlike banks, they seem to care about their members.

My brother was up in arms (and rightly so) about the fees Bank of
America was about to institute a few months back, but he was willing to
pay the fees rather than switch to a credit union. Fortunately for him,
BofA backed down due to customer outrage.

Oh well! I have no bank accounts. But I do use the big banks' reward
credit cards and have taken advantage of their low mortgage rates. This
strategy works for me and IMNSHO is the best of both worlds.! ;-)

Regards and Happy New Year!

Margaret
 
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