Power of Attorney


G

Gio

I have one of the original enduring PoE for my mother and it is registered
with the Public Guardianship office in England so it is stamped 'Court of
protection'. I wanted to open an online savings account for the donor at
the Bank of Scotland. No problem sir, we offer online banking -see it says
so... Well having opened the account and started feeding it with cash the
bank opted to lock my online access. The bottom line appears is they do not
allow online access once an enduring PoE is registered (I had to register it
because the donor unfortunately lost the plot and could not manage her
finances anymore) the bank now says they do not offer online facilities for
my PoE registered in England. If the PoE was Scottish and registered in
Scotland it would not be a problem but I live north of the border and the
donor is down in the midlands.
Is this practice allowed or is it discriminatory ? Forgive my ignorance but
I would have thought a registered PoE was the same as any other registered
PoE and ultimately means the registered attorney has total control over the
finances of the donor so could quite easily run an online account just as
well as a standard customer ?

Any advice how to tackle the problem short of opening another account at
another bank and going through all the appointment process, providing proof
of this that and the other etc.

Tia

Gio
 
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N

Nebulous

Gio said:
I have one of the original enduring PoE for my mother and it is registered
with the Public Guardianship office in England so it is stamped 'Court of
protection'. I wanted to open an online savings account for the donor at
the Bank of Scotland. No problem sir, we offer online banking -see it says
so... Well having opened the account and started feeding it with cash the
bank opted to lock my online access. The bottom line appears is they do
not allow online access once an enduring PoE is registered (I had to
register it because the donor unfortunately lost the plot and could not
manage her finances anymore) the bank now says they do not offer online
facilities for my PoE registered in England. If the PoE was Scottish and
registered in Scotland it would not be a problem but I live north of the
border and the donor is down in the midlands.
Is this practice allowed or is it discriminatory ? Forgive my ignorance
but I would have thought a registered PoE was the same as any other
registered PoE and ultimately means the registered attorney has total
control over the finances of the donor so could quite easily run an online
account just as well as a standard customer ?

Any advice how to tackle the problem short of opening another account at
another bank and going through all the appointment process, providing
proof of this that and the other etc.
These affairs can be quite complicated. You need to get proper advice as
most bank staff are unlikely to know. I would suggest you find a solicitor
who regularly works in this field. You could also try uk.legal

A word of warning though -throwing about phrases like discriminatory when
English and Scottish law is very different is not likely to help your
argument.

Neb
 
R

Roger Mills

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Gio said:
I have one of the original enduring PoE for my mother and it is
registered with the Public Guardianship office in England so it is
stamped 'Court of protection'. I wanted to open an online savings
account for the donor at the Bank of Scotland. No problem sir, we
offer online banking -see it says so... Well having opened the
account and started feeding it with cash the bank opted to lock my
online access. The bottom line appears is they do not allow online
access once an enduring PoE is registered (I had to register it
because the donor unfortunately lost the plot and could not manage
her finances anymore) the bank now says they do not offer online
facilities for my PoE registered in England. If the PoE was Scottish
and registered in Scotland it would not be a problem but I live north
of the border and the donor is down in the midlands. Is this practice
allowed or is it discriminatory ? Forgive my
ignorance but I would have thought a registered PoE was the same as
any other registered PoE and ultimately means the registered attorney
has total control over the finances of the donor so could quite
easily run an online account just as well as a standard customer ?

Any advice how to tackle the problem short of opening another account
at another bank and going through all the appointment process,
providing proof of this that and the other etc.

Tia

Gio
The whole thing's a nightmare! My wife and I have an (unregistered) POA for
her 98-year-old father who now lives with us. You wouldn't believe the
number of hoops we've had to jump through to open various accounts in his
name, for us to operate under POA - especially when it comes to proof of
identity for money laundering purposes because he of course doesn't have any
utility bill showing *his* name and *this* address.

Each inststitution seems to have its own rules. Lloyds TSB was wonderful to
deal with, NS&I and Sainsburys Bank were both a complete nighmare, and
Coventry Building Society was somewhere in the middle - initially saying
that we could only operate an account under POA if it *was* registered at
the Court of Protection (but they later backed down on that).

Everything I've done has been in England, so I have no idea of ways in which
Scotland may differ. [I think the English rules have changed, anyway, since
we set up the POA three years ago.

This is probably not helping much! But the nub of it is that I suspect that
each financial institution has a fair amount of freedom concerning what it
will and won't accept. Your best bet may well be to use another bank - in
which case make sure you get a definitive statement from them as to what is
acceptable before you apply for the account.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
 
M

Martin

Roger Mills said:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,


The whole thing's a nightmare! My wife and I have an (unregistered) POA
for her 98-year-old father who now lives with us. You wouldn't believe the
number of hoops we've had to jump through to open various accounts in his
name, for us to operate under POA - especially when it comes to proof of
identity for money laundering purposes because he of course doesn't have
any utility bill showing *his* name and *this* address.

Each inststitution seems to have its own rules. Lloyds TSB was wonderful
to deal with, NS&I and Sainsburys Bank were both a complete nighmare
I'm surprised. I found Sainsburys faultless for opening and operating a POA
on-line account for elderly relative (but all addresses in England). And
Sainsbury piggy-back off HBOS, same group as OP's Bank of Scotland.
 
R

Roger Mills

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Martin said:
I'm surprised. I found Sainsburys faultless for opening and
operating a POA on-line account for elderly relative (but all
addresses in England). And Sainsbury piggy-back off HBOS, same group
as OP's Bank of Scotland.
Mine's entirely in England too. When did you do yours? I applied last
August - and it took until October to get it going. Maybe things have
improved since then.

At that time, the only way to apply for a POA account was to download a .pdf
form, fill it in and send it off by post with all the supporting identity
and POA documents. First off, the form was misleading in the way it
presented the list(s) of acceptable ID documents. Then it required all of
these to be less than 3 months old when some - such as Notices of Tax Coding
etc. - are only issued annually. After a few phone calls to the Helpline, I
resolved that lot and sent off all the paperwork. After about 4 weeks, I had
heard nothing - so I rang the helpline again and spoke to some droid who
insisted that the form which I had sent in was only for adding POA to an
*existing* account - not for opening a *new* account - despite the form
itself saying explicity that it was for opening an account. Oh, and there
was an option of sending an initial deposit with the application - which
required the cheque to be annotaed with the number of the account which
hadn't yet been opened! It took quite a few phone calls before I finally
managed to speak to someone who knew what he was talking about, and chased
up my paperwork and confirmed that the account had been opened.

When I tried to sign up for online access to the account, the only way which
worked was to use my f-i-l's personal data and DOB etc. - it wouldn't work
work with mine. So I had to pretend to be him - rather than myself under
POA - which I could done from the outset, had I not wanted to do it
properly. They did eventually give me my own logon so that I *can* now do it
properly - but the whole thing took a couple of months from start to finish.

Apart from that, it was brilliant! <g>
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
 
G

Gio

Nebulous said:
These affairs can be quite complicated. You need to get proper advice as
most bank staff are unlikely to know. I would suggest you find a solicitor
who regularly works in this field. You could also try uk.legal

A word of warning though -throwing about phrases like discriminatory when
English and Scottish law is very different is not likely to help your
argument.

Neb
Hi Neb thanks for the advice, by discriminatory I was referring more along
the lines of discriminating against accounts created and managed for the
less mentally able people and not a north / south divide. For example the
British Bankers Association (BoS are a member) produce guidance on opening
accounts for mentally incapacitated people. So why don't BoS follow the
guidelines and stop discriminating against mentally disadvantaged customers
and recognise the PoE for what it stands for ?

Gio
 
G

Gio

snip
The whole thing's a nightmare! My wife and I have an (unregistered) POA
for her 98-year-old father who now lives with us. You wouldn't believe the
number of hoops we've had to jump through to open various accounts in his
name, for us to operate under POA - especially when it comes to proof of
identity for money laundering purposes because he of course doesn't have
any utility bill showing *his* name and *this* address.

Each inststitution seems to have its own rules. Lloyds TSB was wonderful
to deal with, NS&I and Sainsburys Bank were both a complete nighmare, and
Coventry Building Society was somewhere in the middle - initially saying
that we could only operate an account under POA if it *was* registered at
the Court of Protection (but they later backed down on that).

Everything I've done has been in England, so I have no idea of ways in
which Scotland may differ. [I think the English rules have changed,
anyway, since we set up the POA three years ago.

This is probably not helping much! But the nub of it is that I suspect
that each financial institution has a fair amount of freedom concerning
what it will and won't accept. Your best bet may well be to use another
bank - in which case make sure you get a definitive statement from them as
to what is acceptable before you apply for the account.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
Hi Roger,
your comments are more or less the same as I encountered in the past and I
know all about the agro over proof of identity :)

We were having problems with institutions accepting the unregistered PoE and
actually did not want to take all the control away from the donor but as her
health deteriorated and the frequent problems we had we opted to register,
so last Feb it was stamped. Barclays acted correctly as did the Abbey and
Nationwide / Portman building societies but the Bank of Scotland / Halifax,
they should know better given they are a UK bank.

I did have a definitive statement before I opened the account in the branch
and their own web site says 'If you have PoE and would like to be able to
manage your donors accounts on line or open new accounts....you will have to
provide your PoE document and suitable ID.................."

It is because I have gone all through the agro of providing this that and
the other that I am now so annoyed. If they had said sorry no can do I
would have left it and looked else where.

Gio
 
G

Gio

Martin said:
I'm surprised. I found Sainsburys faultless for opening and operating a
POA
on-line account for elderly relative (but all addresses in England). And
Sainsbury piggy-back off HBOS, same group as OP's Bank of Scotland.
Hi Martin, We have our own BoS and Sainsbury's a/c's so expected a rather
smooth application but I kid you not, the process if involving a registered
enduring PoE the process is anything but easy and it is not a branch
problem.

Gio
 
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E

Eric Jones

Gio said:
Hi Martin, We have our own BoS and Sainsbury's a/c's so expected a rather
smooth application but I kid you not, the process if involving a
registered enduring PoE the process is anything but easy and it is not a
branch problem.

Gio
Why did you want to open new accounts?
Why not register the PoA and run the esisting ones?
 
R

Roger Mills

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Eric Jones said:
Why did you want to open new accounts?
Why not register the PoA and run the existing ones?
That's what I did initially with my father-in-law's accounts - but most of
them paid such derisory rates of interest that I wanted to do something
better.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
 
J

judith

These affairs can be quite complicated. You need to get proper advice as
most bank staff are unlikely to know. I would suggest you find a solicitor
who regularly works in this field. You could also try uk.legal

A word of warning though -throwing about phrases like discriminatory when
English and Scottish law is very different is not likely to help your
argument.

Neb
I see no point in paying a solicitor - it will still be him/her
arguing with the bank; if they do not want you custom - (s)he will not
be able to force them.
I suggest that you escalate at the local branch of the Bank and if the
Manager can't resolve the matter you tell them that you will take
your money elsewhere and you will write a letter to the money section
of one of the national papers in order to warn off other potential
customers.
 
R

Roger Mills

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
judith said:
I suggest that you escalate at the local branch of the Bank and if the
Manager can't resolve the matter you tell them that you will take
your money elsewhere
With Sainsburys? You are, of course, joking!

At one point when I vented my frustration at their lack of proper processes
on the droid at the end of their helpline, I was met with the priceless
response "You have to remember that you are dealing with a supermarket - not
a *proper* bank"!!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
 
G

Gio

Roger Mills said:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,


That's what I did initially with my father-in-law's accounts - but most of
them paid such derisory rates of interest that I wanted to do something
better.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
Same here Roger, the donor had a low rate Nationwide a/c so to act in a
proper manner to help protect the donors finances I opted for a double
interest paying savings account while I examined what options were
available. I would not have been acting in the donors best interest if I
had left her money where it was.

Gio
 
J

judith

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,


With Sainsburys? You are, of course, joking!

Who mentioned Sainsbury's - the OP clearly said Bank of Scotland.
 
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R

Roger Mills

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
judith said:
Who mentioned Sainsbury's - the OP clearly said Bank of Scotland.
I did, initially - and others joined in. But it probably wasn't relevant to
the bit of the thread to which you were replying - so apologies!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
 

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