QB 2004 and Payroll


T

Tom Jones

Does anyone know if QB2004 comes with the payroll activated
and with the 1 time free payroll update?

thanks

TJ
 
J

Jeff

I just bought QB2004 pro and printed the EULA:

You will receive a one-time free update of the tax tables used to calculate
payroll taxes. If you do not begin a subscription to the Service after
receiving this update, you can continue to use the last payroll update you
downloaded to the Software, but you bear all risk for any inaccuracies or
penalties resulting from the use of outdated tax information. Also, as a
safety measure, and due to the annual changes in payroll tax rates, if you
are not a subscriber to the Service as of February 15th of the following
year, you will be unable to continue to process payroll. In the event this
occurs, connect with the Service, subscribe to the Service, get the latest
payroll updates, and you will again be able to process payroll.

Looks to be the same as QB2003pro
Jeff
 
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K

klunk

It seems to work differently this year. If I recall correctly,
in QB2003 there was an explicit process which required
that an EIN and other info be entered. This time I happened
to load up one of my customer's data files first and I'm
pretty sure it went out and grabbed the update automatically.
I don't know whether it used my customer's EIN to get the
update, or if it doesn't require one anymore. The tax tables
seem to be active in any company file that has payroll --
if I open the "Get Payroll Updates" dialog it shows an active
tax table number 20307. I hope so. But just what we need,
more mysterious issues...

Another thing, according to the EULA you quote, if we
install and get the 1-time update before Jan 1, does that
mean it dies Feb 15, 2004? And we only get 2 months
of calculations out of it? I guess I'll have to test that.

By the way, I only bought and installed QB2004 for testing.
I NEVER put a new version in service until the current year is
closed out and all tax reports are completed using an
existing stable version.
 
J

Jeff

I never install the latest QB until the following year. I will install
QB2004 pro after I print my W2's & 1099's.
The tax table is good until Feb 15,2005.
I've found it cheaper o buy the upgrade with a net cost of $119.99, than to
keep my existing software and buy the tax table service for $169.99.
Some may want the constant tax table updates, I've found that just the once
a year tax table has worked just fine for me.
Jeff
 
T

Tim Kroesen

"Also, as a
safety measure, and due to the annual changes in payroll tax rates, if
you
are not a subscriber to the Service as of February 15th of the following
year, you will be unable to continue to process payroll"

"safety measure" my ass!

Why was the company formerly (Eight years of program function) so
unconcerned as to our welfare when the just let you know with a simple
and fair warning box the tables expired and allowed you to continue use
of *what you paid for*? (Hint: Intuits lawyers will argue to death the
correct notion that *you* are ultimately responsible for your tax
reporting accuracy) I accept this argument too and am willing to use so
called 'expired' tables at my 'risk'. This is because I *do* check the
accuracy of old table output against current liabilities and find then
within the margin for *my* reporting requirements. I simply never need
to update tables *every* year; therefore do not.

Demanding update fees to maintain relatively picayune "*PAYROLL*"
accounting only within program is simply gouging the average customer
for more profit today by Intuit.

Tim K
 
G

Guest

Tim Kroesen said:
...(Hint: Intuits lawyers will argue to death the
correct notion that *you* are ultimately responsible for your tax
reporting accuracy)
They are not liable for anything, they know it, as does everybody
else. The crap about "safety measures" are scummy tactics for sucking
more $ from the unsuspecting to prove to themselves they can
manipulate QB's users as well as Intuit's suitors manipulate theirs.

Payroll updates should be free or at minimal cost, or user editable,
and in a simple text file, and manually downloadable.

Actually I'd be happy to pay twice their product price and their
payroll update crap if they would only give some consideration in
implementing useful bookkeeping features. But payroll update sleazy
extortion is their game and apparently that's only what they know how
to do.

==
 
A

Allan Martin

They are not liable for anything, they know it, as does everybody
else. The crap about "safety measures" are scummy tactics for sucking
more $ from the unsuspecting to prove to themselves they can
manipulate QB's users as well as Intuit's suitors manipulate theirs.

Payroll updates should be free or at minimal cost, or user editable,
and in a simple text file, and manually downloadable.

Yea man, and the music should also be free, and the movies should be free,
and books should be free.

Give me, give me, give me. I want, I want, I want.
 
G

Guest

Allan Martin said:
Yea man, and the music should also be free, and the movies should be free,
and books should be free.

Give me, give me, give me. I want, I want, I want.
I agree with you that there's a lot of "gimme" and "I want" out there,
especially since stealing now is so easy to do, but it does not apply
in this case.

If they are not liable about anything connected to the use of their
software, why don't they at least let the users use their tax table
for as they want? Why don't they let the users update their own tax
table as often as they want and however they want?

And again, I'd personally go along with their "gimme" and their "I
want" and pay them twice their price of their program and twice the
cost of their payroll update extortion if they could at least balance
it with a decent implementation of useful features.

Instead, they let software development to be handled by ignorants who
wouldn't know how to run a business (much less, a construction
business) even if they only had to answer the phone and take a
freaking message.

==
 
A

Allan Martin

I agree with you that there's a lot of "gimme" and "I want" out there,
especially since stealing now is so easy to do, but it does not apply
in this case.

If they are not liable about anything connected to the use of their
software, why don't they at least let the users use their tax table
for as they want? Why don't they let the users update their own tax
table as often as they want and however they want?

The answer is simple, because Intuit's tax table policy has become a major
revenue stream for them.

When you purchase QB the user must realize that the price they initally pay
does not include use of the payroll functions beyond Feb 15th of the next
year unless they subscribe to their tax table service or purchase the
December annual upgrade. If this arangement is unacceptable then find
another software package.

The fact that Intuits market share has continued to increase as well as
their revenues since they instituted this policy shows that their user base
finds enough value in their product to compensate for the price increase.

By the way the ability to modify tax tables has been eliminated from
practically all payroll programs on the market today. This is a fact of life
and will not change in the forseable future. Tax table subscriptions are a
valued revenue stream for software companies.
 
T

Tim Kroesen

I'm a customer that voluntarily paid over $600 over Ten years time for
registered Intuit s/w. I upgraded for the most part ($500) at *my* whim
and was later extorted for the remainder in a few 'payroll table
upgrades', before I 'swore off' that noise...<g>

Now they get ZERO $ for 'upgrade' until they amend their greedy
practices and return control of the 'upgrade' decision to the customer,
me.

I never agreed to recurring charges to use this s/w; base function has
no time limit of use stated or implied; a base function of it is
"Payroll"; and I expect all function to continue at *the level I paid
for*.

You impugn me as a robber and anarchist for my customer opinion
Allan...? Here I thought all along I was being a wary small business
turkey reacting to being PLUCKED!

Tim K
 
A

Allan Martin

Tim Kroesen said:
I'm a customer that voluntarily paid over $600 over Ten years time for
registered Intuit s/w. I upgraded for the most part ($500) at *my* whim
and was later extorted for the remainder in a few 'payroll table
upgrades', before I 'swore off' that noise...<g>

Now they get ZERO $ for 'upgrade' until they amend their greedy
practices and return control of the 'upgrade' decision to the customer,
me.

I never agreed to recurring charges to use this s/w; base function has
no time limit of use stated or implied; a base function of it is
"Payroll"; and I expect all function to continue at *the level I paid
for*.

You impugn me as a robber and anarchist for my customer opinion
Allan...? Here I thought all along I was being a wary small business
turkey reacting to being PLUCKED!
A turkey no, just a troll.
 
G

Guest

Allan Martin said:
The answer is simple, because Intuit's tax table policy has become a major
revenue stream for them.
Exactly. You call it a service, I call it milking the unsuspecting
clueless, but it's only purpose is to suck in free money for nothing.
Fine, they're not the only ones to do that.
The fact that Intuits market share has continued to increase as well as
their revenues since they instituted this policy shows that their user base
finds enough value in their product to compensate for the price increase.
Wrong. Increase of market share, especially in the software market, is
very often due to user manipulation, service traps, hidden costs, and
plain simple ignorance (in the good sense) of the users, especially in
a small businesses area like Construction. Simply, users don't know
any better.

Apart from the possibility of using illegal business practices, let
them milk as much as they can, but if at the same time are refusing to
improve their product, then we can call them sleazy blood suckers
instead of what they could be: a semi-decent company that gives some
reasonable consideration to QB user's needs.

==
 
A

Allan Martin

Exactly. You call it a service, I call it milking the unsuspecting
clueless, but it's only purpose is to suck in free money for nothing.
Fine, they're not the only ones to do that.


Wrong. Increase of market share, especially in the software market, is
very often due to user manipulation, service traps, hidden costs, and
plain simple ignorance (in the good sense) of the users, especially in
a small businesses area like Construction. Simply, users don't know
any better.

Apart from the possibility of using illegal business practices, let
them milk as much as they can, but if at the same time are refusing to
improve their product, then we can call them sleazy blood suckers
instead of what they could be: a semi-decent company that gives some
reasonable consideration to QB user's needs.

After reading your rant I have an almost uncontrollable urge to label you
paranoid. But I must control myself because I know that everyone is out to
get you.
 
?

????

The answer is simple, because Intuit's tax table policy has become a major
revenue stream for them.

When you purchase QB the user must realize that the price they initally pay
does not include use of the payroll functions beyond Feb 15th of the next
year unless they subscribe to their tax table service or purchase the
December annual upgrade. If this arangement is unacceptable then find
another software package.

The fact that Intuits market share has continued to increase as well as
their revenues since they instituted this policy shows that their user base
finds enough value in their product to compensate for the price increase.

By the way the ability to modify tax tables has been eliminated from
practically all payroll programs on the market today. This is a fact of life
and will not change in the forseable future. Tax table subscriptions are a
valued revenue stream for software companies.
Spoken like an Intuit employee and/or stockholder.
?????
 
T

Tim Kroesen

Actually Allan, it is likely clear to all that you're the one trolling
here since you never even confront let alone refute my opinions...

Tim K
 
G

Guest

Allan Martin said:
After reading your rant I have an almost uncontrollable urge to label you
paranoid. But I must control myself because I know that everyone is out to
get you.
Considering the uncontrollable urge by many to applaud anything they
do, I have to present a realistic side of the situation for some
balance in the software Universe.

In the meantime, if their ineptness allows them to figure out that
percentage figures should always be shown with the same number of
decimal digits, and not like the unfinished homework assignment of an
11 year old like now that they print like: 0.3%, 9%, 1.54%, 12.05%, I
may have an uncontrollable urge to call it a miracle.

By the way, why can't they show the Customer:Job field in a Vendor
Open Balance report?

And as you very well know, the fact that I am paranoid does not mean
that everyone is not out to get me. :)

==
 
A

Allan Martin

Tim Kroesen said:
Actually Allan, it is likely clear to all that you're the one trolling
here since you never even confront let alone refute my opinions...

Rule of acquisition #999 never waste your time confonting a troll when there
are profits to be made.
 
L

Lisa C

Allan Martin said:
The answer is simple, because Intuit's tax table policy has become a major
revenue stream for them.
Ok. I will give them that.
When you purchase QB the user must realize that the price they initally pay
does not include use of the payroll functions beyond Feb 15th of the next
year unless they subscribe to their tax table service
Done, no problem.
or purchase the
December annual upgrade.
'Upgrade'? What a euphinism. What comes out in December is not an upgrade.
It is another 'major revenue stream' -- rammed down the throats of
unsuspecting first-time purchasers.
If this arangement is unacceptable then find
another software package.
And I would have, too. If I'd known the details of the 'arrangement'
(another euphinism... for theft).
How about when they refuse to sell us the payroll subscription? When we pay,
not only for the priveledge of doing our own payroll, but now must 'upgrade'
faster than the software depreciates.
The fact that Intuits market share has continued to increase as well as
their revenues since they instituted this policy shows that their user base
finds enough value in their product to compensate for the price increase.
OR that the new customers do not fully comprehend that the software they
purchase will be lose its payroll functionality - because the box says only
that a payroll subscription is required, and not that Intuit will refuse to
sell one to you in less than 3 years from purchase.
By the way the ability to modify tax tables has been eliminated from
practically all payroll programs on the market today. This is a fact of life
and will not change in the forseable future. Tax table subscriptions are a
valued revenue stream for software companies.
Used to be product improvements were part of that valued revenue stream.
Intuit seems to have found a way to cut out the necessity for improvement
and still generate revenue.... simply discontinue 'services' -- like tax
tables -- for anyone who does not appreciate the 'upgrades'. What a concept!
 
A

Allan Martin

Lisa C said:
Ok. I will give them that.

Done, no problem.

'Upgrade'? What a euphinism. What comes out in December is not an upgrade.
It is another 'major revenue stream' -- rammed down the throats of
unsuspecting first-time purchasers.

And I would have, too. If I'd known the details of the 'arrangement'
(another euphinism... for theft).
How about when they refuse to sell us the payroll subscription? When we pay,
not only for the priveledge of doing our own payroll, but now must 'upgrade'
faster than the software depreciates.
increase.

OR that the new customers do not fully comprehend that the software they
purchase will be lose its payroll functionality - because the box says only
that a payroll subscription is required, and not that Intuit will refuse to
sell one to you in less than 3 years from purchase.

This is not unique to Intuit but a fact of life in the payroll software
industry. As each year passes the revenue to cost ratio of developing tax
tables for a particular version year decreases. The developer reaches a
point where it is simply not economically viable to support a particular
version.


When you walk into Circuit City or Best Buy, how many turntables and eight
track players are on display for sale.

In three years from now I'll ask the same question about VCRs. How many
tapes that you purchase today say that there will not be any players
available in the future to view the contents of this tape?







Used to be product improvements were part of that valued revenue stream.
Intuit seems to have found a way to cut out the necessity for improvement
and still generate revenue.... simply discontinue 'services' -- like tax
tables -- for anyone who does not appreciate the 'upgrades'. What a
concept!

I will be purchasing QB 2004 upgrade next week because I see the value of
the improvements built into the product. All you are doing is blowing hot
air.
 
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G

Guest

Allan Martin said:
I will be purchasing QB 2004 upgrade next week because I see the value of
the improvements built into the product. All you are doing is blowing hot
air.
Name a few.

==
 

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