Quicken Complainers take note


J

Jim M.

Again, for whatever it is worth!
What if:
1) There were 50 posts a day to this News Group (an exaggeration)
2) Assume they were all negative (another exaggeration)
3) Therefore, 365 days @ 50 = 18250/year
Call it 20,000 complaints per year (I like to exaggerate)
4) Quicken claims 15+ million users (maybe an exaggeration)
That's a complaint rate of less than .15%


Opinion: Many, if not most, of the complaints are because the user(s) do not
follow instructions.
Another statistic - better than half of the posts are from those who helped
those who did not read the instructions.


Final opinion: Quicken is a great product!

Jim M.
 
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H

Han

Again, for whatever it is worth!
What if:
1) There were 50 posts a day to this News Group (an exaggeration)
2) Assume they were all negative (another exaggeration)
3) Therefore, 365 days @ 50 = 18250/year
Call it 20,000 complaints per year (I like to exaggerate)
4) Quicken claims 15+ million users (maybe an exaggeration)
That's a complaint rate of less than .15%


Opinion: Many, if not most, of the complaints are because the user(s)
do not follow instructions.
Another statistic - better than half of the posts are from those who
helped those who did not read the instructions.


Final opinion: Quicken is a great product!

Jim M.
I will soon find out if you're right. I have liked various incarnations
of Quicken. I initially faithfully bought each year's version for the
improvements in the software. Then I skipped 1999 and 2001. Now I'm
still on Q2002, sine 03 and 04 seemed to offer little new and the
complaints were (to me) significant. I now will have to install Q05 DL.
It was a difficult decision, since I really don't like the changes like
sunsetting of functionality that is still useful, but I'll try it out.

Intuit has proven (to me) to be an arrogant and customer unfriendly
company, and my decision was difficult. I earlier looked into MoneyDance
and AceMoney, but had difficulties with them. Therefore, I'm taking the
easy way out first, and will try Q05. If it doesn't work for me (note the
subjective mood) I will likely try MD or AM, and return Q05 (does it go
back to Costco or to Intuit?).
 
N

Notan

Jim M. said:
Again, for whatever it is worth!
What if:
1) There were 50 posts a day to this News Group (an exaggeration)
2) Assume they were all negative (another exaggeration)
3) Therefore, 365 days @ 50 = 18250/year
Call it 20,000 complaints per year (I like to exaggerate)
4) Quicken claims 15+ million users (maybe an exaggeration)
That's a complaint rate of less than .15%

Opinion: Many, if not most, of the complaints are because the user(s) do not
follow instructions.
Alot of the current complaints aren't about the functionality of the product,
but with Intuit's "sunsetting" policy, which essentially removes all on-line
functionality from older products.

Again, I can understand the idea of no longer providing support for older
products, but to make an older product "useless" just doesn't sit well.

Notan
 
M

Mike B

Notan said:
Again, I can understand the idea of no longer providing support for
older products, but to make an older product "useless" just doesn't
sit well.
I am not endorsing Intuit's policy. I am well aware that the product
functions as it did because Intuit designed it as such (and that MS Money
probably does not have the same architecture regarding downloads).

The way Quicken works confers a cost on Intuit to maintain servers (and
probably some other things) to allow downloads to function. This is an
on-going cost similar to support costs. If you can understand them dropping
support, then perhaps you can understand that they are also trying to get
revenue to cover the cost of supplying computing infrastructure?
 
W

William W. Plummer

Mike said:
I am not endorsing Intuit's policy. I am well aware that the product
functions as it did because Intuit designed it as such (and that MS Money
probably does not have the same architecture regarding downloads).

The way Quicken works confers a cost on Intuit to maintain servers (and
probably some other things) to allow downloads to function. This is an
on-going cost similar to support costs. If you can understand them dropping
support, then perhaps you can understand that they are also trying to get
revenue to cover the cost of supplying computing infrastructure?
What you and I think simply doesn't matter. Intuit is a big company
that has done very well for itself. They know what they are doing and
the are not affected by whining on public newsgroups. Personally, I
think they are entitle to make a profit and if you don't like it, use
something else. That is, vote with your wallet.
 
N

Notan

Mike said:
I am not endorsing Intuit's policy. I am well aware that the product
functions as it did because Intuit designed it as such (and that MS Money
probably does not have the same architecture regarding downloads).

The way Quicken works confers a cost on Intuit to maintain servers (and
probably some other things) to allow downloads to function. This is an
on-going cost similar to support costs. If you can understand them dropping
support, then perhaps you can understand that they are also trying to get
revenue to cover the cost of supplying computing infrastructure?
Fine.

Then why not charge $10/year, for example, as an ongoing "infrastructure
support fee" and continue to allow older versions to function?

I could swallow that alot easier than having to purchase a new program,
this year, and, who knows... Maybe *every* year!

Notan
 
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M

Mike B

William W. Plummer said:
What you and I think simply doesn't matter. Intuit is a big company
that has done very well for itself. They know what they are doing and
the are not affected by whining on public newsgroups. Personally, I
think they are entitle to make a profit and if you don't like it, use
something else. That is, vote with your wallet.
Hey! I wasn't complaining.
 
A

Andy Levy

I will soon find out if you're right. I have liked various incarnations
of Quicken. I initially faithfully bought each year's version for the
improvements in the software. Then I skipped 1999 and 2001. Now I'm
still on Q2002, sine 03 and 04 seemed to offer little new and the
complaints were (to me) significant. I now will have to install Q05 DL.
It was a difficult decision, since I really don't like the changes like
sunsetting of functionality that is still useful, but I'll try it out.
I moved from Q2002 Deluxe to Q2003 Deluxe to avoid the sunset for
another year, and I have to say the interface is significantly
downgraded compared to Q2002. Haven't seen Q2005 yet, so I can't
comment on what it looks like, but basic tasks are taking me twice as
long to do now as they took on Q2002, and I've had to consult the
helpfile several times to find functions that were "right there" in
2002. I could go on, but I won't bore you.
Intuit has proven (to me) to be an arrogant and customer unfriendly
company, and my decision was difficult. I earlier looked into MoneyDance
and AceMoney, but had difficulties with them. Therefore, I'm taking the
easy way out first, and will try Q05. If it doesn't work for me (note the
subjective mood) I will likely try MD or AM, and return Q05 (does it go
back to Costco or to Intuit?).
I installed MoneyDance to try it out, but the conversion was less than
satisfactory. There's no auto-import, and when I tried exporting
everything in Quicken to QIF for import into MD, it didn't go well.
Thus my move to Q2003.

If you decide to return Q05, I wish you luck. Returning software for a
refund is almost impossible these days.
 
H

Han

I moved from Q2002 Deluxe to Q2003 Deluxe to avoid the sunset for
another year, and I have to say the interface is significantly
downgraded compared to Q2002. Haven't seen Q2005 yet, so I can't
comment on what it looks like, but basic tasks are taking me twice as
long to do now as they took on Q2002, and I've had to consult the
helpfile several times to find functions that were "right there" in
2002. I could go on, but I won't bore you.


I installed MoneyDance to try it out, but the conversion was less than
satisfactory. There's no auto-import, and when I tried exporting
everything in Quicken to QIF for import into MD, it didn't go well.
Thus my move to Q2003.

If you decide to return Q05, I wish you luck. Returning software for
a refund is almost impossible these days.
I have just installed Q05 and it seems to have gone smoothly (see my other
post re: sequence of events). I let the Q05 install routines uninstall
Q02, but manually deleted (most of) the stuff the uninstall routine
couldn't remove. No need to have a quadrillion or so ico files etc dating
from 2002.

The new gui is really confusing at first - the main reason I didn't
upgrade to 03 and 04. I *guess* I'll get used to it. More comments
elsewhere at another time, no doubt.
 
J

JB

Han said:
I will soon find out if you're right. I have liked various incarnations
of Quicken. I initially faithfully bought each year's version for the
improvements in the software. Then I skipped 1999 and 2001. Now I'm
still on Q2002, sine 03 and 04 seemed to offer little new and the
complaints were (to me) significant. I now will have to install Q05 DL.
It was a difficult decision, since I really don't like the changes like
sunsetting of functionality that is still useful, but I'll try it out.

Intuit has proven (to me) to be an arrogant and customer unfriendly
company, and my decision was difficult. I earlier looked into MoneyDance
and AceMoney, but had difficulties with them. Therefore, I'm taking the
easy way out first, and will try Q05. If it doesn't work for me (note the
subjective mood) I will likely try MD or AM, and return Q05 (does it go
back to Costco or to Intuit?).

Before buying Q05 I explained to a Costco manager that the Q04 they sold me
was a DEFECTIVE PRODUCT and explained the problem with the ROE functions. I
asked her if they would take back Q05 if it had the same problem. They
agreed to take it back and were also willing to take back Q04 if I wanted
them to.

I kept Q04, however, in the hope that it would be fixed. Silly me...even
the new r3 patch to Q05 does not fix the problem.
 
V

VC

the product is not useless .. you can still track all of that you used to
track .. it will just be manually ... like the earlier versions of quicken
....

Vernon
 
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S

Scott Lindner

Wow... you really know how to cook up some good fiction. First, you are
making gross assumptions that all Quicken users participate actively in this
forum. They do not. I know many Quicken users using very old versions that
do not even use dial up. Are you counting them, too?

You are also assuming that instruction is easy to understand. The last time
I used the Quicken help it described how to do something that was a feature
that since has been removed.

I have read the Quicken help completely over twice and still have troubles
with the program. Before you make yourself an ass... no, I am not stupid.

I have upgraded each year starting with 1998. Each year, they seem to
remove or break more of the subtle usefulness of the program for more
abstract and less intuitive capabilities. Possibly more powerful, but no
instruction is provided. Sure, the Quicken help and books tell you how to
push the buttons in a valid way in the Quicken program but not a single one
ever tells you how to *use* Quicken. I'm talking about how to apply it to
your life using real examples for how people live.

I tend to agree with the people that have complaints about Quicken. They
seem to do very little engineering or consumer research, make a few changes,
and release a new version and make tons of money for relatively little
effort. I keep hoping each year they'll change that tune but so far they
have not convinced me they are trying to make a better product.

Scott
 
I

I live on Quicken and Outlook

What you and I think simply doesn't matter. Intuit is a big company
that has done very well for itself. They know what they are doing and
the are not affected by whining on public newsgroups. Personally, I
think they are entitle to make a profit and if you don't like it, use
something else. That is, vote with your wallet.
(by the way, Bill, I also went to the 'tute. As in "IHTFP.")

(SLAPPING HIS FOREHEAD!!!) Why didn't I think of that sooner.
And who is the "other guy" that I'm going to vote for? And besides
MS?

Fact is, thjs is what economists call a "mature" market. And one of
the characteristics of a mature market is "consolidation," that is a
handful of vendors dominating said market. And in such a scenario,
there is often "user lockin." In other words, you have nowhere else
to turn.

So, the only "vote" is not to upgrade any more than you absolutely
have to. And Intuit has decided that you "have" to upgrade every
three years or so to benefit from online downloads.

Prediction: You heard it here first: Intuit will no longer "sell"
Quicken anywhere, not even in the US. The software will enable you to
"subscribe" to Quicken services, at $X/month just like your ISP or
cable TV. Great for the stock price, since Wall Street loves
long-term visibility into revenues, and nothing dfoes that like a
subscription. And what is good for the stock price is always good for
customers. You know that, don't you. ....

(sometime in the 50s, the then Secretary of Defense in the US, Charles
Wilson, ex-General Motors, is reputed to have said, "What's good for
GM is good for the country.")
 
B

Bill

Notan:

I was wondering the same thing. I have no problem with Intuit's making
a profit. I have no problem with Intuit's charging a reasonable fee
for a reasonable product/service (like the use of their servers). They
need to do that in order to provide me with this product. Fair's fair,
and Intuit's a business, not a charity.

Just give me the option of keeping what works and to pay a reasonable
fee to keep it working. With the amounts I pay for cable, or TIVO, or
phones, or to ISPs, or any of the rest, $10, or $20, or maybe even more
if that's what it took, for a year's license would work for me. Then,
I have the choice. Choice 1: keep what I'm familiar with and pay the
license fee. Choice 2: buy the new program, get the "new and improved
model", and three years of support. Choice 3: stick with the old
program and let the support lapse. Intuit can set pricing models that
make sense for it, and I can choose the form of Quicken that makes
sense for me given whatever pricing structure applies to it.
I just wish Intuit would offer us Choice 1!

Bill
 
J

John Pollard

Scott said:
Wow... you really know how to cook up some good fiction.
First, you
are making gross assumptions that all Quicken users
participate
actively in this forum. They do not. I know many Quicken
users
using very old versions that do not even use dial up. Are you
counting them, too?
Since you did not quote who you were replying to, it is somewhat
difficlult to put your reply and my reply in perspective.

But your observation that many Quicken users to not report here
is most certainly not support of any contention that the few
complainers accurately represent Quicken users opinions. In
fact, I would wager just the opposite is true. I do not have
statistics but I would make a wager that a significantly higher
percentage of disgruntled users post complaints than satisfied
users post their pleasant experiences.

<snip>
 
A

Andrew DeFaria

Scott said:
You are also assuming that instruction is easy to understand. The last
time I used the Quicken help it described how to do something that was
a feature that since has been removed.
That's funny because my Quicken (2005 H&B) still has a How Do I?
selection...
I have read the Quicken help completely over twice and still have
troubles with the program. Before you make yourself an ass... no, I am
not stupid.
Everybody has some troubles with any program. No program is bug free.
Many people have problems with not understanding financial concepts.
Yeah you read the Quicken help, but did you understand it? Because there
are also many, perhaps most, people who use Quicken with little problems...
I have upgraded each year starting with 1998. Each year, they seem to
remove or break more of the subtle usefulness of the program for more
abstract and less intuitive capabilities.
Then you are indeed an idiot for only and idiot would continue to do
something that isn't working for him! Either that or perhaps you are
willing to admit that you still fine utility in the program.
Possibly more powerful, but no instruction is provided.
Hmmm... No instruction is provided? Really? Then what did you exactly
read in the help after all?
Sure, the Quicken help and books tell you how to push the buttons in a
valid way in the Quicken program but not a single one ever tells you
how to *use* Quicken. I'm talking about how to apply it to your life
using real examples for how people live.
Again, are you sure you read the help. Because they do provide real life
examples. Now maybe not examples that fit your life but they do provide
example. How you use Quicken is up to you. But there are pretty standard
accounting principals and the like that most people understand. Maybe
you should take a course in finance....
I tend to agree with the people that have complaints about Quicken.
They seem to do very little engineering or consumer research, make a
few changes, and release a new version and make tons of money for
relatively little
effort.
That is, after all, what they are in business for - making money. Are
you just figuring this out? You are new to all this eh?
I keep hoping each year they'll change that tune but so far they have
not convinced me they are trying to make a better product.
If you're so damn dissatisfied then stop using the product. To continue
to do so would only be foolishness on your part.
 
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A

Andrew DeFaria

I said:
(SLAPPING HIS FOREHEAD!!!) Why didn't I think of that sooner. And who
is the "other guy" that I'm going to vote for? And besides MS?
Or Gnucash, Moneydance or any of a host of others. Do you Google? Try
http://www.google.com/search?q=Pers...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Only like 21 million hits.
Fact is, thjs is what economists call a "mature" market. And one of
the characteristics of a mature market is "consolidation," that is a
handful of vendors dominating said market. And in such a scenario,
there is often "user lockin." In other words, you have nowhere else to
turn.
Bullshit. There are tons of other alternatives if you'd bother to lift
your fingers for a few seconds and do some research. And there's always
the option of writing your own.
So, the only "vote" is not to upgrade any more than you absolutely
have to. And Intuit has decided that you "have" to upgrade every three
years or so to benefit from online downloads.
Check your premises. They are false. Therefore all your rattling on and
on is pretty much meaningless.
Prediction: You heard it here first: Intuit will no longer "sell"
Quicken anywhere, not even in the US. The software will enable you to
"subscribe" to Quicken services, at $X/month just like your ISP or
cable TV. Great for the stock price, since Wall Street loves long-term
visibility into revenues, and nothing dfoes that like a subscription.
And what is good for the stock price is always good for customers. You
know that, don't you. ....
My heavens! What did you before Quicken?!? What stops you from doing
that again? Answer: Nothing.
(sometime in the 50s, the then Secretary of Defense in the US, Charles
Wilson, ex-General Motors, is reputed to have said, "What's good for
GM is good for the country.")
And what of the millions of car owners who have not bought from GM...?
 
A

Andrew DeFaria

Bill said:
Just give me the option of keeping what works and to pay a reasonable
fee to keep it working.
Let me see if I get this straight. Older versions of Quicken suddenly
stop working?!? I think not. They still work. Oh the online download
service may not work anymore. And you may not be able to get support
(Does real support with Quicken even exist? I've never seen it).
With the amounts I pay for cable, or TIVO, or phones, or to ISPs, or
any of the rest, $10, or $20, or maybe even more if that's what it
took, for a year's license would work for me. Then, I have the choice.
Choice 1: keep what I'm familiar with and pay the license fee. Choice
2: buy the new program, get the "new and improved model", and three
years of support. Choice 3: stick with the old program and let the
support lapse. Intuit can set pricing models that
make sense for it, and I can choose the form of Quicken that makes
sense for me given whatever pricing structure applies to it. I just
wish Intuit would offer us Choice 1!
Huh? What is it exactly that you're looking for? Support? Or just
continued service for things like online download?

How is this substantially different than any other product. No business
supports all of the products they've ever put out indefinitely. Go to
the Ford dealer and ask for parts for a Model T. You won't get them.
Does that mean that a Model T will drop dead in it's tracks? No. It will
continue to run. Might be hard to find parts but you can go to after
market and specialty places. Or, you can build your own parts (Difficult
I know but not unheard of).
 
N

Notan

VC said:
the product is not useless .. you can still track all of that you used to
track .. it will just be manually ... like the earlier versions of quicken
...
Back to the future! <g>

Notan
 
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N

Notan

Andrew said:
Or Gnucash, Moneydance or any of a host of others. Do you Google? Try

<URL snipped>

Only like 21 million hits.

<snip>
And, out of those 21 million hits, how many different pieces of
software is reference made to?

Notan
 

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