Reliability of Ryanair


B

Bill Bush

I've been watching the operation of Ryanair and it didn't make sense. Are
you sure that Ryanair is not next Enron or Parmalat?
 
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L

Little Bills

I was advised by a colleague that Ryanair pilots are East European and paid
less than the crew. HE had concerns about the safety of Ryanair aircraft
and said never ever use them.
 
J

john boyle

Little Bills said:
I was advised by a colleague that Ryanair pilots are East European and paid
less than the crew. HE had concerns about the safety of Ryanair aircraft
and said never ever use them.
Why do they all speak with irish accents then?
 
G

GPG

Little Bills said:
I was advised by a colleague that Ryanair pilots are East European and paid
less than the crew. HE had concerns about the safety of Ryanair aircraft
and said never ever use them.
The owner of Ryanair is such a s**t that I wouldn't use his flying cattle
trucks even if he paid me.
 
J

Jim Ley

I've been watching the operation of Ryanair and it didn't make sense. Are
you sure that Ryanair is not next Enron or Parmalat?
Where would they be hiding lots of debt?

Jim.
 
T

Take a Walk

I've been watching the operation of Ryanair and it didn't make sense. Are
you sure that Ryanair is not next Enron or Parmalat?
I reckon Ryanair make all their money from no-shows,and late minute
desparate people.
I flew out to Germany last week, £50 return all-in including taxes - we
got to the airport for the return 12 hours early as we finished the job
sooner than planned, and asked if we could be advanced to an earlier
plane. Yes, we could for £150 each! despite the next plane (in an hour)
being half-empty and they would never sell tickets for it, whereas they
could have resold ours more easily with 12 hours notice.
 
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B

Bruce Robson

Bill said:
I've been watching the operation of Ryanair and it didn't make sense. Are
you sure that Ryanair is not next Enron or Parmalat?


I think it the behavior of the airports that doesn't make sense.

It appears that airports' charges to Ryanair don't cover the
airport's costs. Ryanair operates to a lot of publicly owned
airports and has convinced the local authorities to charge low fees
(and sometimes give other support) in the belief that the
Ryanair flights will result in increases in other taxes.

This may be correct in cases where flights would not happen without
the low fees to Ryanair. However, the situation at Newquay airport
is interesting.


1) Newquay airport was operating with BA CitiExpress operating flights
to London (These used to be to Heathrow and from 1997 to Gatwick).
There were 4 flight a day in each direction using 50 seat turboprop
aircraft that also served Plymouth.

2) In April 2002, Ryanair starts operating flights to London Stanstead.
It pays lower airport charges than BA.

3) In Dec 2002, speculation starts about the BA flights to London.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2581873.stm

4) In May 2003, BA says it will withdraw its flights in Oct 2003.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3040243.stm

5) Another low cost airline based in Plymouth is started to operate
the flights previously operated by BA. It also pays lower charges
than BA did.
http://www.airsouthwest.com/

6) Sept 2003, Newquay airport faces cash crisis
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3124374.stm

7) Currently there's a real scandal about Newquay airport
The BBC produced stories about this in January.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3413183.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3435385.stm

Last week the local MP went public with his feelings.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3457669.stm

He said: "At the moment we are paying a huge amount to subsidise
Ryanair's profits and their passenger fares and the only people
that seem to be benefiting is Ryanair.

"I am sure we would get another low-cost airline to come in,
but bribing an airline to give us a cut-price deal doesn't make
long-term sense for the county.

"What we need are viable airlines with viable services and a viable
airport. We don't want a subsidised airport which pours money into the
profits of any one particular airline."
 
R

Rhoy the Bhoy

john boyle said:
Why do they all speak with irish accents then?
They don't. There are indeed quite a few East Europeans. Spanish (or
S American) too.

As well as the Irish.
 
S

Steve Firth

Bill Bush said:
I've been watching the operation of Ryanair and it didn't make sense. Are
you sure that Ryanair is not next Enron or Parmalat?
Or maybe Ryanair's chief exec is just a sharper tool than his state
owned competitors? Ryanair appear to have realised and have proved that
most people do not want to fly from a hub airport to another hub
airport. Prior to Ryanair, I had to take a route that was: local airport
to Paris or Amsterdam, then on to Rome, then change a third time to get
a local flight to the nearest airport to home.

One chance of making all of the connections, and on the several times I
did it, I could guarantee that my luggage would be lost for up to a week
and that I woudl ahve to spend at least one night in a hotel. It was
actually faster and cheaper to drive door to door.

Now I can drive to Stansted and fly direct to one of two airports that
are close to my destination - actually not true, I can meet all of my
business and personal travel needs using Ryanair because they fly to
Rome (Ciampino - better airport than Leonardo da Vinci), Bergamo (handy
for Milan and skiing), Bologna, Ancona and Pescara and Bari.

There's no such option from BA or Alitalia/Air France.

It also shows at the other end of the route. The airports that I fly to
are all booming and all from Ryanair's operation. It makes sense to the
local chambers of commerce in Pescara and Ancona (for example) to
underwrite the landing fees for Ryanair because they get the money back
ten times over.

Why else are the hypermarket chains racing to build new stores just
beside the airports? Why else are hotelleiers investing big time in
updated facilities? And why else has hire car provision exploded at each
airport from one local company to seven or eight competing franchises?
 
S

Steve Firth

GPG said:
The owner of Ryanair is such a s**t that I wouldn't use his flying cattle
trucks even if he paid me.
Why, what did he do to you?
 
S

Steve Firth

john boyle said:
Why do they all speak with irish accents then?
I would suggest that "Little Bills" is talking shit. Every pilot I've
had on every Ryanair flight I've taken (and I'm flying most months 2-4
journeys with Ryanair) has been Irish or British.

The "safety concerns" are also bollocks. I've worked in aviation for
several years and with the excpetion of one fault that I notified to the
cabin crew (broken catch on a table). I've seen nothign on a Ryanair
flight to cause me concern. Indeed their fleet of aircraft is newer than
most of their competitors and in better condition.

The reason being that when the market bottomed out for Boeing, Ryanair
cut themselves a very sweet deal for the purchase of aircraft. One
reason that they can operate cheaper than the competition is that the
aircraft are bought for less than one third the price that the
competition pay. To Boeing it's worth it just to keep their staff
employed and to save them from the shame of having to stack unused
aircraft in the desert.

Other measures that O Leary has introduced include using the plane as
advertising space - for the last year the ones I fly have been in "The
Sun" livery, and eliminating the costly provision of free booze and
food. Who ned in-flight catering on a journey lasting just 90 minutes?
And is there anyone in the world that actually likes the slop served up
by Swissair/Air France/BA?
 
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J

John-Smith

I would suggest that "Little Bills" is talking shit. Every pilot I've
had on every Ryanair flight I've taken (and I'm flying most months 2-4
journeys with Ryanair) has been Irish or British.
I am sure safety-wise they are just fine, but as a pilot myself who
often hears them on the air I can confirm that at least some of their
pilots have an accent suggesting the Middle East or perhaps some parts
of very eastern Europe. On occassions the radio work is a bit sloppy
too; perhaps that was the FO getting some practice.
 
J

John-Smith

What, worse than the French?
Not really a fair comparison; the French tend to not use the radio :)
Especially ATC, during early afternoon after a bottle of wine.
 
T

Thom

Steve said:
It also shows at the other end of the route. The airports that I fly to
are all booming and all from Ryanair's operation. It makes sense to the
local chambers of commerce in Pescara and Ancona (for example) to
underwrite the landing fees for Ryanair because they get the money back
ten times over.
There is a widespread misunderstanding of the EU ruling on Ryanair. They
had to pay back part (not all) of their 'subsidy' because it is illegal
if a) it isn't available to competitors, and b) it means the airport
makes a loss.

Generally the ruling seems highly sensible as it should make other low
cost airlines more competitive and make the cost of flights closer to
their actual cost (though arguably flights are still subsidized in other
ways - for example by not paying full security costs or for pollution).

Thom
 
S

Steve Firth

Thom said:
There is a widespread misunderstanding of the EU ruling on Ryanair. They
had to pay back part (not all) of their 'subsidy' because it is illegal
if a) it isn't available to competitors,
Which competitors? On the vast majority of routes that Ryanair has been
running, no other airline operated a scheduled service from London (any
airport) to the destination. The issue of whether a competitor was able
to obtain a similar discount was a non-issue in particular at Charleroi
where no other airline chose to run scheduled flights at all, nor even
to discuss the possibility.
and b) it means the airport makes a loss.
Do you sincerely think that Charleroi made a loss as a result of the
Ryanair operation? Or indeed any of the airports to which Ryanair flies?
The farce at the hearing was the noxious sight of an EU commissioner
chanting out lists of landing fees at Charleroi before Ryanair flew
there and the fee structure applied to Ryanair. Yes, Ryanair paid vastly
reduced fees. OTOH *before* Ryanair flew to Charleroi very few aircraft
were landing. The fees could have been EUR 100,000 per aircraft and
Charleroi would still be taking less money than it was with the
discounted fees offered to Ryanair.
Generally the ruling seems highly sensible
My arse. It's protectionism of the worst sort and I detect signs of
someone's hand in someone elses back pocket. It's the same dirty tricks
that were applied to Laker's Skytrain.
as it should make other low cost airlines more competitive and make the
cost of flights closer to their actual cost (though arguably flights are
still subsidized in other ways - for example by not paying full security
costs or for pollution).
Utter bollocks, the only reason for the complaint was that the massively
subsidised state airline Air France had it's nose put out of joint that
Ryanair could operate profitably despite selling tickets for less than
Air France and despite showing that that the large airlines "hub and
spoke" model is antiquated and irrelevant to the real needs of
travellers.

The EU should be ashamed of itself for this ruling. Sadly shame is not
an emotion that politicians are capable of.
 
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T

Thom

Well, you might be right - I haven't seen any evidence to that effect
reported in the news. I was commenting on the reported reasons for the
ruling - which do seem sensible. You allege that neither elements of the
ruling applied in fact to this case - if so Ryanair should appeal the judgement.

It was noticeable, however, that Michael O'Leary didn't mention (in the
interviews that I saw) that the court had got the facts wrong - only
that the judgement was bad because consumers would pay higher prices.
(Personally I don't see why air travel should be subsidized by tax
payers given how polluting it is relative to other modes of travel.)

Thom
 
B

Bill Bush

The "safety concerns" are also bollocks. I've worked in aviation for
several years and with the excpetion of one fault that I notified to the
cabin crew (broken catch on a table). I've seen nothign on a Ryanair
flight to cause me concern. Indeed their fleet of aircraft is newer than
most of their competitors and in better condition.
And they use safer airports.

But over 50% of foreign planes inspected in Sweden had a serious safety
fault. They didn't give details but Ryanair has a hub in Sweden.
The reason being that when the market bottomed out for Boeing, Ryanair
cut themselves a very sweet deal for the purchase of aircraft. One
reason that they can operate cheaper than the competition is that the
aircraft are bought for less than one third the price that the
competition pay. To Boeing it's worth it just to keep their staff
employed and to save them from the shame of having to stack unused
aircraft in the desert.
Indeed, if it is too good to be true, maybe it is not. And suspicious
when other low price carriers are not following Ryanair's fleet strategy.
Other measures that O Leary has introduced include using the plane as
advertising space - for the last year the ones I fly have been in "The
Sun" livery, and eliminating the costly provision of free booze and
food. Who ned in-flight catering on a journey lasting just 90 minutes?
And is there anyone in the world that actually likes the slop served up
by Swissair/Air France/BA?
Swissair is known as Swiss after their bankruptcy?
 
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B

Bill Bush

Jim said:
Where would they be hiding lots of debt?

Jim.
Good question. Parmalat demonstrated that hiding debts is no
problem. The world is full of banks willing to help.

Years ago I was told to watch the fleets of low price
carriers.

Receiving money for growth but spending it on daily
operation would be the classical trick.
 
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