Revoking one's own UK citizinship - consequences?


N

nobody---

There is an obscure possible future scenario where EU citizens may be
denied certain rights which are available to non EU citizens resident
in the EU.

I won't go into detail because it really isn't relevant and TBH isn't
all that likely anyway.

A suggested solution would be to revoke one's UK citizenship.

My question is what are the consequences of doing this?

Presumably one could not claim state benefits. Wouldn't bother me!

What about the basic state pension? That should still be OK - unless
it is one day rolled up into the DSS system.

Could one get deported?

One would often need a visa to travel around Europe.

Any other drawbacks?

How would one actually do it?

I would then have to get myself some other passport to be able to
travel, of course. I believe there are some which can be simply
purchased, from some South American countries. Has anybody ever done
this?
 
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A

Anthony R. Gold

A suggested solution would be to revoke one's UK citizenship.
I guess you mean renounce. I presume that would only be accepted as valid
by HM Government if you have another citizenship to fall back on; I do not
believe you can make yourself stateless by choice. So many of your
questions will be answered by the status, right to reside etc. of citizens
of whatever different state you will hold yourself out as a national.

Tony
 
J

Jethro

There is an obscure possible future scenario where EU citizens may be
denied certain rights which are available to non EU citizens resident
in the EU.

I won't go into detail because it really isn't relevant and TBH isn't
all that likely anyway.

A suggested solution would be to revoke one's UK citizenship.

My question is what are the consequences of doing this?

Presumably one could not claim state benefits. Wouldn't bother me!

What about the basic state pension? That should still be OK - unless
it is one day rolled up into the DSS system.

Could one get deported?

One would often need a visa to travel around Europe.

Any other drawbacks?

How would one actually do it?

I would then have to get myself some other passport to be able to
travel, of course. I believe there are some which can be simply
purchased, from some South American countries. Has anybody ever done
this?
AIUI you cannot "revoke" your citizenship. A fact which William Joyce
discovered in 1946, when the British government hanged him.

However, you might find that "British Citizenship" is incompatible
with citizenship of another country - although I have never heard of
that. However, being a citizen of another country (and living within
their jurisdiction) might insulate you from the actions of the British
Government.
 
R

RobertL

AIUI you cannot "revoke" your citizenship. A fact which William Joyce
discovered in 1946, when the British government hanged him.

However, you might find that "British Citizenship" is incompatible
with citizenship of another country - although I have never heard of
that. However, being a citizen of another country (and living within
their jurisdiction) might insulate you from the actions of the British
Government.- Hide quoted text -
is it not the case that th UK will allow you to be joint cityzen with
anywhere but that there are countries that will not allow you to
adopt their nationality without renoucing all others. Austria for
example.

Robert
 
J

Jethro

is it not the case that th UK will allow you to be joint cityzen with
anywhere but that there are countries that will not allow you to
adopt their nationality without renoucing all others. Austria for
example.
The US in the 1920s was the same. In fact, a *British* citizen
applying for US citizenship had to take an extra oath - specifically
renouncing British citizenship.

Joyces problem was that the British government (at the time, I have no
idea about now) had no recognition of renouncing British Citizenship.
IIRC this was pivotal in the Joyce case, as he was charged with
"treason" on the basis that as a British Citizen he enjoyed the Kings
protection. If the British government had recognised his renouncing of
Britishness, he would not have faced a treason charge.

One for the legal scholars and historians here : if that had been the
case, what charge (if any) would he have faced for his wartime
actions ?
 
M

Martin

There is an obscure possible future scenario where EU citizens may be
denied certain rights which are available to non EU citizens resident
in the EU.

I won't go into detail because it really isn't relevant and TBH isn't
all that likely anyway.

A suggested solution would be to revoke one's UK citizenship.

My question is what are the consequences of doing this?

Presumably one could not claim state benefits. Wouldn't bother me!

What about the basic state pension? That should still be OK - unless
it is one day rolled up into the DSS system.

Could one get deported?

One would often need a visa to travel around Europe.

Any other drawbacks?

How would one actually do it?

I would then have to get myself some other passport to be able to
travel, of course. I believe there are some which can be simply
purchased, from some South American countries. Has anybody ever done
this?
Wouldn't be easier just to fake your own demise, and scurry off to live in
Panama?
 
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T

Tim

There is an obscure possible future scenario where
EU citizens may be denied certain rights which are
available to non EU citizens resident in the EU.

I won't go into detail because it really isn't
relevant and TBH isn't all that likely anyway.
Come on, spill the dirt - you can't leave us dangling
like this! What are the rights that we'll be denied?
 
C

Cynic

I would then have to get myself some other passport to be able to
travel, of course. I believe there are some which can be simply
purchased, from some South American countries. Has anybody ever done
this?
Grenada (West Indies) used to issue passports to anyone who applied
for a cost of about £250 IIRC. It seemed the best deal at the time,
because while there were plenty of places offering similar
facillities, many countries refused entry to people carrying those
passports, or did not recognise the passport at all. A Grenadian
passport OTOH is almost as universally accepted as a UK or a US
passport.

I have no idea whether Grenada still offers that service. (I think
most of the £250 was to buy your Grenadian (dual) citizenship, after
which you could apply for a passport as a citizen).

I expect you can still purchase a Citizen of the World passport, with
its rainbow coloured cover. No proof of identity is required. About
the only disadvantage of a CotW passport is that it is not recognised
as a valid travel document by any country at all - though most
immigration officers will put a stamp in it if asked. It might come
in handy once interplanetary tourism starts up.
 
M

Mark Goodge

There is an obscure possible future scenario where EU citizens may be
denied certain rights which are available to non EU citizens resident
in the EU.

I won't go into detail because it really isn't relevant and TBH isn't
all that likely anyway.

A suggested solution would be to revoke one's UK citizenship.

My question is what are the consequences of doing this?

Presumably one could not claim state benefits. Wouldn't bother me!
You could if your new citizenship was that of another EU state,
although of course you wouldn't want that if it's the EU you want to
be outwith :)
What about the basic state pension? That should still be OK - unless
it is one day rolled up into the DSS system.
You'd be entitled to anything based on previous contributions, but not
to anything that's not contribution based.
Could one get deported?
Yes.

One would often need a visa to travel around Europe.

Any other drawbacks?

How would one actually do it?
You fill in a form.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/nationality/formsandguidance/guidern1
I would then have to get myself some other passport to be able to
travel, of course.
You'd probably need to do that first, actually. You can't renounce
British citizenship unless you are either already hold citizenship of
another state or you you can satisfy the Home Secretary that you will
acquire such a citizenship or nationality after renouncing British
citizenship. In the latter case, your renunciation will be revoked if
you haven't successfully gained another citizenship within 6 months.

Mark
 
P

PeterSaxton

AIUI you cannot "revoke" your citizenship. A fact which William Joyce
discovered in 1946, when the British government hanged him.
If you change it to renounce I think you can but only formally. This
is why Joyce was hanged.
 
A

Anthony R. Gold

If you change it to renounce I think you can but only formally. This
is why Joyce was hanged.
Curiously, Joyce had nothing to renounce because he was never a British
subject, he was born an American and died a German, and only obtained his
British passport by lying. He was acquitted on two of the charges of high
treason but then hanged just for the passport - the prosecution argued
that the passport, albeit procured by fraud and albeit expired, had
entitled Joyce to diplomatic protection at the time he started working for
Germany in 1939, and so in return he had then owed an allegiance to the
King.

Tony
 
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P

PeterSaxton

Curiously, Joyce had nothing to renounce because he was never a British
subject, he was born an American and died a German, and only obtained his
British passport by lying. He was acquitted on two of the charges of high
treason but then hanged just for the passport - the prosecution argued
that the passport, albeit procured by fraud and albeit expired, had
entitled Joyce to diplomatic protection at the time he started working for
Germany in 1939, and so in return he had then owed an allegiance to the
King.

Tony-
We've established that you can hold dual nationality. Joyce also
obtained the passport so, although there is a case for saying you
cannot obtain something "legally" by fraud, it seems reasonable that
if he is going to benefit from it's rights he should accept the
obligations. The expiring of a passport doesn't end your nationality.
 
?

_

We've established that you can hold dual nationality. Joyce also
obtained the passport so, although there is a case for saying you
cannot obtain something "legally" by fraud, it seems reasonable that
if he is going to benefit from it's rights he should accept the
obligations. The expiring of a passport doesn't end your nationality.
Does having a passport always equal citizenship/nationality?
 
N

nobody---

Mark Goodge said:
You'd be entitled to anything based on previous contributions, but not
to anything that's not contribution based.
Does this mean one would not get the basic state pension? AFAIK this
is based on NICs.

The BSP is worth a pension pot of somewhere around £100k-£150k which
one would not chuck away lightly.
Would this actually happen?
Interesting, thank you.
 
S

sgallagher

There is an obscure possible future scenario where EU citizens may be
denied certain rights which are available to non EU citizens resident
in the EU.

I won't go into detail because it really isn't relevant and TBH isn't
all that likely anyway.

A suggested solution would be to revoke one's UK citizenship.

My question is what are the consequences of doing this?

Presumably one could not claim state benefits. Wouldn't bother me!

What about the basic state pension? That should still be OK - unless
it is one day rolled up into the DSS system.

Could one get deported?
British Nationality Law states the following about renunciation:

"A declaration made by a person in pursuance of this section shall not
be registered unless the Secretary of State is satisfied that the
person who made it will after the registration have or acquire some
citizenship or nationality other than British citizenship; and if that
person does not have any such citizenship or nationality on the date
of registration and does not acquire some such citizenship or
nationality within six months from that date, he shall be, and be
deemed to have remained, a British citizen notwithstanding the
registration."

So - they're saying that a person who renounces British nationality
must show that they possess or will possess another nationality within
six months of their renunciation being accepted. AND, if they do not
acquire another nationality within six months then they will be viewed
as never having lost their giving British nationality.

One question would be on what basis would such a person remain in the
UK. If they give up their British citizenship, they would lose their
right of abode. They would either need an EEA citizenship, or some
other legal permission to remain in the UK, no?
 
A

Anthony R. Gold

Does having a passport always equal citizenship/nationality?
No. For example Latvia now issues non-citizen passports to residents who
are former U.S.S.R. citizens and who do not qualify for citizenship of
Latvia. The UK issues (issued?) a range of passports, some to citizens,
some to non-citizens with permission to reside in the UK and some (used to
be - don't know if they are still issued) to residents of former colonies
and with no right to reside in the UK. You need to read what is written
on the front page to determine whether the passport confirms citizenship.

Tony
 
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R

RobertL

Come on, spill the dirt - you can't leave us dangling
like this! What are the rights that we'll be denied?
Is he thinking of the European arrest warrant? if you were not the
cityzen of any EU country then perhaps some evidence would be requried
before you could be extraditied from one EU state to another.


Robert
 

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