Shaw Trust boot camp.


N

Niteawk

S.T. keep writing to me telling me they have made me an appointment, I
didnt ask them for an appointment, WTF are they on about?
 
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M

mart2306

S.T. keep writing to me telling me they have made me an appointment,  I
didnt ask them for an appointment, WTF are they on about?
Did jobcentre ask them to make you an appointment?

Martin <><
 
N

Niteawk

S.T. keep writing to me telling me they have made me an appointment, I
didnt ask them for an appointment, WTF are they on about?
Did jobcentre ask them to make you an appointment?

Martin <><

=====================
I have not been to the JC for nearly a year. The only thing I can think of
is, the taliban twat I had for a ND adviser is still on my case. Thats how
vindictive those fckers are.
 
J

JNugent

Niteawk said:
S.T. keep writing to me telling me they have made me an appointment, I
didnt ask them for an appointment, WTF are they on about?
No-one here can possibly know.

Have you thought of going down to th Shaw Trust - and asking them?
 
M

mart2306

Did jobcentre ask them to make you an appointment?

Martin  <><

=====================
I have not been to the JC for nearly a year. The only thing I can think of
is, the taliban twat I had for a ND adviser is still on my case. Thats how
vindictive those fckers are.
Or maybe they still know that you are on the benefit and haven't yet
been found to be unable to work.
Unwilling maybe, not unable.

Martin <><
 
N

Niteawk

Did jobcentre ask them to make you an appointment?

Martin <><

=====================
I have not been to the JC for nearly a year. The only thing I can think of
is, the taliban twat I had for a ND adviser is still on my case. Thats how
vindictive those fckers are.
Or maybe they still know that you are on the benefit and haven't yet
been found to be unable to work.


Unwilling maybe, not unable.

Martin <><
=========================
Oh right, that must be why my Dr keeps signing me off, you are a bigger
muppet than they are.
 
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M

mart2306

=========================
Oh right, that must be why my Dr keeps signing me off, you are a bigger
muppet than they are.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Your Dr won't be the one deciding about being unable to work for the
purposes of benefits. All this Dr will do is give you a sick note.
And you haven't yet had your appeal - so all we know in the meantime
is that you have been found fit for work by the decision maker.

Tell us - has this Dr of yours referred you to a specialist or do they
also think you are just trying to avoid work?

Martin <><
 
N

Niteawk

Your Dr won't be the one deciding about being unable to work for the
purposes of benefits. All this Dr will do is give you a sick note.
And you haven't yet had your appeal - so all we know in the meantime
is that you have been found fit for work by the decision maker.

Tell us - has this Dr of yours referred you to a specialist or do they
also think you are just trying to avoid work?

Martin <><
I have seen 2 specalists for seperate issues and both confirm the diagnosis,
game set and match AFAIAC.

Now I have to go to tribunal, because some asshole who knows **** all about
medical conditions, gave a diagnosis which was formulated by ticking boxes
on a fking BS form, and without any type of examination other than answering
questions, somehow that is meant to correct the decisions of 2 experts and a
GP, IOW they must be liars or they have not got a clue what they are doing.
A piece of paper can do their jobs.

Anyway I have got a hearing date apparently, the TS wrote to my legal
adviser who tells me my hearing is in 2 weeks time, I am still waiting for
them to actually contact me, then I might know where to go.

Fuckin wankers the lot of them.
 
M

mart2306

I have seen 2 specalists for seperate issues and both confirm the diagnosis,
game set and match AFAIAC.

Now I have to go to tribunal, because some asshole who knows **** all about
medical conditions, gave a diagnosis which was formulated by ticking boxes
on a fking BS form, and without any type of examination other than answering
questions, somehow that is meant to correct the decisions of 2 experts and a
GP, IOW they must be liars or they have not got a clue what they are doing.
A piece of paper can do their jobs.

Anyway I have got a hearing date apparently, the TS wrote to my legal
adviser who tells me my hearing is in 2 weeks time, I am still waiting for
them to actually contact me, then I might know where to go.

Fuckin wankers the lot of them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Ah, ticking boxes. Commonly used for the past couple of decades.
How do you think you ever got benefit? Ticking boxes.

Glad to hear your hearing is coming up. Will wait for your complaints
if they don't give you exactly what you want.
Oh, and last I heard its not a lifetime decision.......

Martin <><
 
R

Robbie

Ah, ticking boxes. Commonly used for the past couple of decades.
How do you think you ever got benefit? Ticking boxes.
The problem is that with ESA there are a lot less boxes to tick,
especially for the mental health descriptors and also the threshold for
passing on mental health grounds alone has increased from 10 to 15.
Well, it always has been 15 but getting 10 points on mental health
grounds alone under Incapacity Benefit was treated as if the person had
got 15 points.
Glad to hear your hearing is coming up. Will wait for your complaints
if they don't give you exactly what you want.
Oh, and last I heard its not a lifetime decision.......
It never really was under IB, the examining Doctor usually gave a date
when the person should either be referred again or would be expected to
be fit for work.

Even if Niteawk passes the tribunal - and I expect him to, I've said it
before, then he may have to undergo a fresh Work Capability Assessment
at some point relatively soon. And so the whole process will begin again...
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
The problem is that with ESA there are a lot less boxes to tick,
especially for the mental health descriptors and also the threshold for
passing on mental health grounds alone has increased from 10 to 15. Well,
it always has been 15 but getting 10 points on mental health grounds alone
under Incapacity Benefit was treated as if the person had got 15 points.
I know the government has plenty of money to waste, I wouldnt expect them to
forget about me. Why give me 64 quid a week when they can waste thousands
trying to get me to do something I cant do.


It never really was under IB, the examining Doctor usually gave a date
when the person should either be referred again or would be expected to be
fit for work.

They have done away with that aspect, saying when they expect you to be fit
again. I think the DWP wants to avoid having any part in acknowledging that
a claimant may not be fit to work.
What they say now is, there is no immediate risk of death to the claimant,
were s/he to [participate in some work related activity, IOW fit enough to
attend government boot camps.
Even if Niteawk passes the tribunal - and I expect him to, I've said it
before, then he may have to undergo a fresh Work Capability Assessment at
some point relatively soon. And so the whole process will begin again...
Wonderful, I cant wait for the process to start all over again. I can handle
it, but I am worried about my Dr, I dont think she can take the strain of
seeing me again on a regular basis ;)
 
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M

mart2306

I know the government has plenty of money to waste, I wouldnt expect themto
forget about me. Why give me 64 quid a week when they can waste thousands
trying to get me to do something I cant do.
It never really was under IB, the examining Doctor usually gave a date
when the person should either be referred again or would be expected tobe
fit for work.
They have done away with that aspect, saying when they expect you to be fit
again. I think the DWP wants to avoid having any part in acknowledging that
a claimant may not be fit to work.
What they say now is, there is no immediate risk of death to the claimant,
were s/he to [participate in some work related activity, IOW fit enough to
attend government boot camps.


Even if Niteawk passes the tribunal - and I expect him to, I've said it
before, then he may have to undergo a fresh Work Capability Assessment at
some point relatively soon. And so the whole process will begin again....
Wonderful, I cant wait for the process to start all over again. I can handle
it, but I am worried about my Dr, I dont think she can take the strain of
seeing me again on a regular basis ;)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, why waste £64 a week when by spending just a little more they can
perhaps get you off benefit so you start contributing more in taxes?
Leaving you to rot on benefit just means they have the payments for
you for the rest of your life. Spending some money can mean they don't
pay for so many years for you.
Sounds like a good plan. The return on investment will be better than
the return possible by leaving people on benefit.

Martin <><
 
R

Robbie

Niteawk said:
Robbie said:
The problem is that with ESA there are a lot less boxes to tick,
especially for the mental health descriptors and also the threshold
for passing on mental health grounds alone has increased from 10 to
15. Well, it always has been 15 but getting 10 points on mental health
grounds alone under Incapacity Benefit was treated as if the person
had got 15 points.
I know the government has plenty of money to waste, I wouldnt expect
them to forget about me. Why give me 64 quid a week when they can waste
thousands trying to get me to do something I cant do.


It never really was under IB, the examining Doctor usually gave a date
when the person should either be referred again or would be expected
to be fit for work.

They have done away with that aspect, saying when they expect you to be
fit again. I think the DWP wants to avoid having any part in
acknowledging that a claimant may not be fit to work.
What they say now is, there is no immediate risk of death to the
claimant, were s/he to [participate in some work related activity, IOW
fit enough to attend government boot camps.
Even if Niteawk passes the tribunal - and I expect him to, I've said
it before, then he may have to undergo a fresh Work Capability
Assessment at some point relatively soon. And so the whole process
will begin again...
Wonderful, I cant wait for the process to start all over again. I can
handle it, but I am worried about my Dr, I dont think she can take the
strain of seeing me again on a regular basis ;)
I know someone who (this is under the old Personal Capability Assessment
procedure under Incapacity Benefit) failed to pass three consecutive
PCAs and then won each time on appeal. The whole charade was played out
over nearly 4 years - medical, lost, appeal, won, then a year later -
medical, lost, appeal, won and then a couple of years later the whole
thing again. It ended after his GP sent a strongly worded letter of
complaint to the DWP which was read by the chairman of the tribunal who
then complained to the DWP Presenting Officer who was present at the
last appeal. It seemed to do the trick - he's been left alone by the DWP
ever since...
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
Niteawk said:
Robbie said:
(e-mail address removed) wrote:






<snipped>
=========================
Oh right, that must be why my Dr keeps signing me off, you are a
bigger
muppet than they are.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your Dr won't be the one deciding about being unable to work for the
purposes of benefits. All this Dr will do is give you a sick note.
And you haven't yet had your appeal - so all we know in the meantime
is that you have been found fit for work by the decision maker.
Tell us - has this Dr of yours referred you to a specialist or do
they
also think you are just trying to avoid work?
Martin <><
I have seen 2 specalists for seperate issues and both confirm the
diagnosis,
game set and match AFAIAC.

Now I have to go to tribunal, because some asshole who knows **** all
about
medical conditions, gave a diagnosis which was formulated by ticking
boxes
on a fking BS form, and without any type of examination other than
answering
questions, somehow that is meant to correct the decisions of 2 experts
and a
GP, IOW they must be liars or they have not got a clue what they are
doing.
A piece of paper can do their jobs.

Anyway I have got a hearing date apparently, the TS wrote to my legal
adviser who tells me my hearing is in 2 weeks time, I am still waiting
for
them to actually contact me, then I might know where to go.

Fuckin wankers the lot of them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah, ticking boxes. Commonly used for the past couple of decades.
How do you think you ever got benefit? Ticking boxes.

The problem is that with ESA there are a lot less boxes to tick,
especially for the mental health descriptors and also the threshold for
passing on mental health grounds alone has increased from 10 to 15.
Well, it always has been 15 but getting 10 points on mental health
grounds alone under Incapacity Benefit was treated as if the person had
got 15 points.


Glad to hear your hearing is coming up. Will wait for your complaints
if they don't give you exactly what you want.
Oh, and last I heard its not a lifetime decision.......
I know the government has plenty of money to waste, I wouldnt expect them
to forget about me. Why give me 64 quid a week when they can waste
thousands trying to get me to do something I cant do.


It never really was under IB, the examining Doctor usually gave a date
when the person should either be referred again or would be expected to
be fit for work.

They have done away with that aspect, saying when they expect you to be
fit again. I think the DWP wants to avoid having any part in
acknowledging that a claimant may not be fit to work.
What they say now is, there is no immediate risk of death to the
claimant, were s/he to [participate in some work related activity, IOW
fit enough to attend government boot camps.
Even if Niteawk passes the tribunal - and I expect him to, I've said it
before, then he may have to undergo a fresh Work Capability Assessment
at some point relatively soon. And so the whole process will begin
again...
Wonderful, I cant wait for the process to start all over again. I can
handle it, but I am worried about my Dr, I dont think she can take the
strain of seeing me again on a regular basis ;)
I know someone who (this is under the old Personal Capability Assessment
procedure under Incapacity Benefit) failed to pass three consecutive PCAs
and then won each time on appeal. The whole charade was played out over
nearly 4 years - medical, lost, appeal, won, then a year later - medical,
lost, appeal, won and then a couple of years later the whole thing again.
It ended after his GP sent a strongly worded letter of complaint to the
DWP which was read by the chairman of the tribunal who then complained to
the DWP Presenting Officer who was present at the last appeal. It seemed
to do the trick - he's been left alone by the DWP ever since...

A good example of using the system to abuse people. You literally have to go
to war and keep going to war in a vain attempt to get them off your back. My
situation is the same, despite medical evidence to the contrary, they say I
am fit to work, so I appeal. And if the TS rule in my favour, I know they
will come after me again. I keep a few GL24's at home, my next appeal form
is ready, all I have to do is date it and hand it in to the JC. After my
legal adviser has made a few copies of course. You soon get to know the
routine, it is no more difficult than signing on once you get the hang of
it.
 
R

Robbie

Niteawk said:
Robbie said:
Niteawk said:
(e-mail address removed) wrote:







<snipped>
=========================
Oh right, that must be why my Dr keeps signing me off, you are a
bigger
muppet than they are.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your Dr won't be the one deciding about being unable to work for the
purposes of benefits. All this Dr will do is give you a sick note.
And you haven't yet had your appeal - so all we know in the meantime
is that you have been found fit for work by the decision maker.
Tell us - has this Dr of yours referred you to a specialist or do
they
also think you are just trying to avoid work?
Martin <><
I have seen 2 specalists for seperate issues and both confirm the
diagnosis,
game set and match AFAIAC.

Now I have to go to tribunal, because some asshole who knows ****
all about
medical conditions, gave a diagnosis which was formulated by
ticking boxes
on a fking BS form, and without any type of examination other than
answering
questions, somehow that is meant to correct the decisions of 2
experts and a
GP, IOW they must be liars or they have not got a clue what they
are doing.
A piece of paper can do their jobs.

Anyway I have got a hearing date apparently, the TS wrote to my legal
adviser who tells me my hearing is in 2 weeks time, I am still
waiting for
them to actually contact me, then I might know where to go.

Fuckin wankers the lot of them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah, ticking boxes. Commonly used for the past couple of decades.
How do you think you ever got benefit? Ticking boxes.

The problem is that with ESA there are a lot less boxes to tick,
especially for the mental health descriptors and also the threshold
for passing on mental health grounds alone has increased from 10 to
15. Well, it always has been 15 but getting 10 points on mental
health grounds alone under Incapacity Benefit was treated as if the
person had got 15 points.


Glad to hear your hearing is coming up. Will wait for your complaints
if they don't give you exactly what you want.
Oh, and last I heard its not a lifetime decision.......


I know the government has plenty of money to waste, I wouldnt expect
them to forget about me. Why give me 64 quid a week when they can
waste thousands trying to get me to do something I cant do.



It never really was under IB, the examining Doctor usually gave a
date when the person should either be referred again or would be
expected to be fit for work.


They have done away with that aspect, saying when they expect you to
be fit again. I think the DWP wants to avoid having any part in
acknowledging that a claimant may not be fit to work.
What they say now is, there is no immediate risk of death to the
claimant, were s/he to [participate in some work related activity,
IOW fit enough to attend government boot camps.


Even if Niteawk passes the tribunal - and I expect him to, I've said
it before, then he may have to undergo a fresh Work Capability
Assessment at some point relatively soon. And so the whole process
will begin again...


Wonderful, I cant wait for the process to start all over again. I can
handle it, but I am worried about my Dr, I dont think she can take
the strain of seeing me again on a regular basis ;)
I know someone who (this is under the old Personal Capability
Assessment procedure under Incapacity Benefit) failed to pass three
consecutive PCAs and then won each time on appeal. The whole charade
was played out over nearly 4 years - medical, lost, appeal, won, then
a year later - medical, lost, appeal, won and then a couple of years
later the whole thing again. It ended after his GP sent a strongly
worded letter of complaint to the DWP which was read by the chairman
of the tribunal who then complained to the DWP Presenting Officer who
was present at the last appeal. It seemed to do the trick - he's been
left alone by the DWP ever since...

A good example of using the system to abuse people. You literally have
to go to war and keep going to war in a vain attempt to get them off
your back. My situation is the same, despite medical evidence to the
contrary, they say I am fit to work, so I appeal. And if the TS rule in
my favour, I know they will come after me again. I keep a few GL24's at
home, my next appeal form is ready, all I have to do is date it and hand
it in to the JC. After my legal adviser has made a few copies of course.
You soon get to know the routine, it is no more difficult than signing
on once you get the hang of it.
David Lloyd George (if you know your history!) used to get his ministers
to sign their resignation letters when he appointed them, all he had to
do was date them when he wanted to sack them. You seem to do the same
thing with GL24's, the DWP and appeal tribunals!
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
David Lloyd George (if you know your history!) used to get his ministers
to sign their resignation letters when he appointed them, all he had to do
was date them when he wanted to sack them. You seem to do the same thing
with GL24's, the DWP and appeal tribunals!
You can always rely on the boot camp brigade to keep chasing you because
they get paid £200 + a week to put your arse on a chair, to do nothing
except listen to some idiot telling you about how employers are crying out
to hire people who can potentially be off work sick every other day and not
able to much work if they ever manage to get to there in the first place, or
not able to work at all because an old injury or illness keeps playing up.

These employers will NOT hire people in perfect health, in case they live
until retirement age and the company has to pay them a pension. Healthy
people are a serious risk, they could injure themselves quite easily at work
and sue for damages, you dont have any problems like that with sick people,
they are too fucked to move around much, let alone work, so that rules out
work related injury. The other danger is, there's you with a full cup of tea
in
your hand, and some healthy bastard who never takes a tea break, mows you
down because you are to slow to react. So you see why Shaw Trust needs
people like me, companies cannot afford to risk hiring healthy staff.

When you are up against a system like that, you might as well fill the forms
in, well in advance. You are going to need them for a long time to come.
 
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M

mart2306

You can always rely on the boot camp brigade to keep chasing you because
they get paid 200 + a week to put your arse on a chair, to do nothing
except listen to some idiot telling you about how employers are crying out
to hire people who can potentially be off work sick every other day and not
able to much work if they ever manage to get to there in the first place, or
not able to work at all because an old injury or illness keeps playing up.

These employers will NOT hire people in perfect health, in case they live
until retirement age and the company has to pay them a pension. Healthy
people are a serious risk, they could injure themselves quite easily at work
and sue for damages, you dont have any problems like that with sick people,
they are too fucked to move around much, let alone work, so that rules out
work related injury. The other danger is, there's you with a full cup of tea
in
your hand, and some healthy bastard who never takes a tea break, mows you
down because you are to slow to react. So you see why Shaw Trust needs
people like me, companies cannot afford to risk hiring healthy staff.

When you are up against a system like that, you might as well fill the forms
in, well in advance. You are going to need them for a long time to come.
Those employers will still hire people. Its harder for disabled to get
a job, but its by no means impossible.
If anything, the disabled and sick get a lot more help to get into
work. Unequal perhaps, but practical.
Healthy staff are preferred but some companies do seem to have quotas
for 'non-healthy' staff.
I've been ill for over 2,000 days continuous now, I've got the lowest
sick record in my workplace for days off sick.
Being ill doesn't mean unable to work.

Martin <><
 
R

Robbie

Those employers will still hire people. Its harder for disabled to get
a job, but its by no means impossible.
If anything, the disabled and sick get a lot more help to get into
work. Unequal perhaps, but practical.
Healthy staff are preferred but some companies do seem to have quotas
for 'non-healthy' staff.
I've been ill for over 2,000 days continuous now, I've got the lowest
sick record in my workplace for days off sick.
Being ill doesn't mean unable to work.

Martin <><
What do you mean by "ill" though Martin? It can have subjective
meanings. To me it means "ill" as in "ill, not at work". I assume you're
using a descriptive term of "having an illness", which is not the same
thing.
 
N

Niteawk

Robbie said:
What do you mean by "ill" though Martin? It can have subjective meanings.
To me it means "ill" as in "ill, not at work". I assume you're using a
descriptive term of "having an illness", which is not the same thing.

He is talking about the disabled, there is a vast difference between people
who are ill and those that are crippled in some way. I knew a bloke who had
polio as a child, it left him a bit knackered in the leg dept, but he
recovered from the illness, although he couldnt walk very well, he could get
about and work with his hands.

This is where Martin and his Shaw Trust cronies are getting confused, they
are looking at the disabled, and people who are ill, and saying if they can
work, so can you, which is total bullshit.
 
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M

mart2306

What do you mean by "ill" though Martin? It can have subjective
meanings. To me it means "ill" as in "ill, not at work". I assume you're
using a descriptive term of "having an illness", which is not the same
thing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
I throw up several times a week, constant headache for almost 7 years,
nausea, dizziness and walking is hard.
That sort of ill. Plus the good old fashioned risk of my allergy
flaring up outside the home, something I always have to be aware of.
I can sit at home and not work, with low quality of life but fairly
safe from allergic reaction.
Or I can get out, do things, go to work, study, do activities, run a
few businesses - and have a much higher quality of life.

Martin <><
 

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