UK Government Debt


R

Roland Watson

I read that the USA government debt is currently about $7.5 trillion. Anyone
know what the UK government debt is?

Given our economy is about 1/10 that of the USA, I would guess an equivalent
debt of $750 billion or about £370 billion?


Thanks,

Roland.
 
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D

Daytona

Roland Watson said:
Given our economy is about 1/10 that of the USA, I would guess an equivalent
debt of $750 billion or about £370 billion?
£437.4Bn in 2003

£1,099Bn GDP

£35Bn government debt (presumably one years debt)

<URL:http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=277>

I don't think that it will take long to get as bad as the ~£50Bn pa as
it was in the early 90s.

Daytona
 
M

M Holmes

Roland Watson said:
I read that the USA government debt is currently about $7.5 trillion. Anyone
know what the UK government debt is?
Given our economy is about 1/10 that of the USA, I would guess an equivalent
debt of $750 billion or about L370 billion?
I think somewhere between 30% and 40% of GDP, rising towards the latter
under Labour, so in a trillion quid economy, your figures look pretty
near spot on.

FoFP
 
J

John Redman

M Holmes said:
I think somewhere between 30% and 40% of GDP, rising towards the latter
under Labour, so in a trillion quid economy, your figures look pretty
near spot on.
Although debt does not include unfunded liabilities such as public sector
pensions, which if included would take debt well beyond a trillion.
 
C

Chris Game

John said:
Although debt does not include unfunded liabilities such as public
sector pensions, which if included would take debt well beyond a
trillion.
That's not debt though is it? These pension liabilites could be
changed overnight by simple legislation.
 
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R

Roland Watson

M Holmes said:
I think somewhere between 30% and 40% of GDP, rising towards the latter
under Labour, so in a trillion quid economy, your figures look pretty
near spot on.
The US economy appears to be leveraged at 68%!

So, the US GDP is about $11 trillion in 2003. The UK about $1.7 trillion in
2003.

Thus the US economy is 6.5 greater. The debt of the US government appears to
be $7.5 trillion / £470 billion greater = 9.1 times greater than the UK
debt.

I think Asian central banks trust american dollars to much!

Roland.
 
D

Derek *

Although debt does not include unfunded liabilities such as public sector
pensions, which if included would take debt well beyond a trillion.
Or , I guess, PFI commitments.

DG
 
J

Jonathan Bryce

Chris said:
That's not debt though is it? These pension liabilites could be
changed overnight by simple legislation.
Not if the government wants any chance of being re-elected
 
J

Just Wondering

Roland Watson said:
The US economy appears to be leveraged at 68%!

So, the US GDP is about $11 trillion in 2003. The UK about $1.7 trillion
in
2003.

Thus the US economy is 6.5 greater. The debt of the US government appears
to
be $7.5 trillion / £470 billion greater = 9.1 times greater than the UK
debt.

I think Asian central banks trust american dollars to much!

Roland.
To whom do the government owe all this money to ? whos richer than america ?
 
C

Chris Game

Roland said:
I think Asian central banks trust american dollars to much!
Yes, the question is when will their nerve break and they start
selling (since the dollar is on a slide, the value of the asian's
dollar paper is shrinking).
 
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J

John Redman

Chris Game said:
That's not debt though is it? These pension liabilites could be
changed overnight by simple legislation.
They are more likely to be increased in an attempt to buy still more votes.
 
J

John Redman

Richard Buttrey said:
Why isn't it debt?

Seems to me that in the ordinary meaning of the word, it's exactly
that. Money due to someone and payable by a public authority at a
future date.
Because it'll be passed to you and me, so it's our debt rather than
"government" debt?
 
J

John Redman

Richard Buttrey said:
So it's still debt then - as I said.?
All we seem to be debating is who's liable for the debt.
There's no debate about that m8

It's going to be us.
 
R

Richard Buttrey

There's no debate about that m8

It's going to be us.
I think you're at cross purposes. The OP was suggesting that it wasn't
debt. I pointed out that it clearly was.

I made no comment about who picks up the debt, which seems to be the
angle you're coming from.

Rgds

__
Richard Buttrey
Grappenhall, Cheshire, UK
__________________________
 
R

Ronald Raygun

Richard said:
I think you're at cross purposes. The OP was suggesting that it wasn't
debt. I pointed out that it clearly was.
It's not a "proper" debt because, as Chris Game alleged, it could be
voided at a stroke: the pension rights could be abolished by legislation.
 
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N

Nebulous

Ronald Raygun said:
It's not a "proper" debt because, as Chris Game alleged, it could be
voided at a stroke: the pension rights could be abolished by legislation.
I doubt if that would stand up to scrutiny. After all most people have been
contributing to their pension- generally from 5-11% of salary. That would
run all the way to the court of human rights.

I do think there may have to be a scaling back of the amount offered though.

Neb
 
R

Richard Buttrey

It's not a "proper" debt because, as Chris Game alleged, it could be
voided at a stroke: the pension rights could be abolished by legislation.
But highly unlikely given the govts. present anxiety to ensure there
is a pensions 'safety net' to cater for companies going out of
existence. I can't see even this lot cancelling public sector
pensions.

On a pedantic note, there was no restriction of the word 'debt' in the
OP. I think everyone would understand the term 'debt' in the ordinary
course of the word, as something which is owed by one
person/organisation to another. If you take the line that any debt
could ultimately be cancelled by statute, then whilst no doubt true in
the final analysis, it doesn't negate the fact that ** at the moment
** it is clearly debt.

Rgds
__
Richard Buttrey
Grappenhall, Cheshire, UK
__________________________
 
R

Ronald Raygun

Richard said:
On a pedantic note, there was no restriction of the word 'debt' in the
OP. I think everyone would understand the term 'debt' in the ordinary
course of the word, as something which is owed by one
person/organisation to another. If you take the line that any debt
could ultimately be cancelled by statute,
Sure, all debts could be made illegal. But I wasn't thinking in
such extreme terms. It's much easier to abolish pensions than
to blast the concept of debt out of the water.
then whilst no doubt true in
the final analysis, it doesn't negate the fact that ** at the moment
** it is clearly debt.
On the contrary, since there is already cutting-back on the cards,
how can it be a debt if it's not even clear how much it's going to be?

Also, how can a future debt be a "debt at the moment"?
 
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C

Chris Game

Ronald said:
It's not a "proper" debt because, as Chris Game alleged, it could be
voided at a stroke: the pension rights could be abolished by legislation.
Quite; Richard may think it's debt but he hold no paper showing how
much it is and when it will be paid. He's relying on promises and
vague assurances from the Govt given long ago.
 

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