Vanguard account numbers


S

Steve

Asked Vanguard about their account numbers, here's their response (for
what it's worth) -


From: (e-mail address removed)

Vanguard typically uses one account number for all account types until
a fund is duplicated. If someone has several types of accounts they
can request a different account number for each account.
 
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T

The Michael

Asked Vanguard about their account numbers, here's their response (for
what it's worth) -


From: (e-mail address removed)

Vanguard typically uses one account number for all account types until
a fund is duplicated. If someone has several types of accounts they
can request a different account number for each account.
Sounds pretty ridiculous that they would even think to leave it up to a customer to
request a different account number for each account.

For me they have closed out an account and opened a new one when a Taxid has changed.
This was not at my request; I only requested that they change the taxid... they gave
me the impression that this was SOP at Vanguard (and I have experienced this
elsewhere) for everyone, but this provided for correct 1099 reporting at year's end
(whereas my local bank and Morgan Stanley reported incorrectly).

I use the same taxid on my IRA as on our Trust account and they are unique account
numbers (without a customer request).
 
D

Doug Ellice

Yeah, this Vanguard "account number" thing is a bit of a bother for
those who use Quicken's automatic downloading of transactions. I might
add that the Vanguard system does not confuse Vanguard, or their web
site, where all my investments are broken down the way one would expect.
Frankly, I don't know how they do that, given how unintuitive their
numbering non-system is.

In case anyone reading so far doesn't understand this:
Each of their mutual funds has a 3-digit number, so my first investment
into my Traditional IRA is recorded as, say, 123-01234567890 where the
first 3 digits come from the fund number of the mutual fund I've
invested in, and the final 11 digits are what any reasonable human would
call my account number, which is to say a number that would appear to
refer to my Traditional IRA account. When I buy shares in another of
their funds for this same Traditional IRA, it is listed as
456-01234567890. So far, so good.

But when I opened a Roth IRA and invested in a THIRD Vanguard fund it
was recorded as 789-01234567890! The same "account number". And when I
made a second investment into this Roth IRA, of a fund I already owned
in my Traditional IRA, it was recorded as 123-87654321098. Notice that
the 2 investments in my Roth IRA appear to have different "account numbers".

As I say, this is confusing only if you read the numbers. On my paper
statements, and on the Vanguard web site, it is clear what investments
fall into what funds in which accounts, numbering ambiguities
notwithstanding.

I phoned them once 10 days ago and they politely told me "that's our
system; suck it up". Frustrated, I tried again a few days later and was
more clear about why I was having a problem. Surprisingly, they agreed
to solve the problem. They will create a distinct "account number" for
my 2nd account and "move the shares" from the confusing number to the
non-confusing number. We'll see....

Doug
 
S

scott s.

Yeah, this Vanguard "account number" thing is a bit of a bother for
those who use Quicken's automatic downloading of transactions. I
might add that the Vanguard system does not confuse Vanguard, or their
web site, where all my investments are broken down the way one would
expect.
Frankly, I don't know how they do that, given how unintuitive their
numbering non-system is.
In the past, IIRC each fund owned was treated as its own account. If you
wanted to d/l transactions, would have to create a Quicken Acct for each
fund. I prefer to have a single account for each mutual family, at
least for taxable accts (you're right that trad IRAs and Roth IRAs
should be kept in their own accts I think). A few years ago Vanguard
created an option to d/l all transactions into a single Quicken acct.
That makes life easier (for me anyway). But at that time, at least,
there was an option so you could d/l them either way.

scott s.
..
 
J

John Pollard

scott said:
In the past, IIRC each fund owned was treated as its own
account. If you wanted to d/l transactions, would have to
create a Quicken Acct for each fund. I prefer to have a single
account for each mutual family, at least for taxable accts
(you're right that trad IRAs and Roth IRAs should be kept in
their own accts I think).
A few years ago Vanguard created an
option to d/l all transactions into a single Quicken acct. That
makes life easier (for me anyway). But at that time, at least,
there was an option so you could d/l them either way.
That option is still there, but it is not clear (to me, anyway)
whether the option pertains only to downloads initiated from
their web site (QIF or web-connect) or whether it applies to
one-step-update downloads as well.

But even the two choices you mention do not address the ultimate
issue of the thread, which is that non-tax-advantaged accounts
and each type of tax-advantaged account (traditional, Roth, Sep,
etc.) needs its own identifier for Quicken and government
purposes.

It is reassuring to know that Vanguard has acknowledged the
potential problem and offers a way to prevent it. I will be
interested to see how they treat the new IRA accounts I am
opening there, which will be in addition to the
non-tax-advantaged account I already have with them. Ideally, I
should not need to do anything, but we shall see.
 
A

Andrew

Doug said:
.... They will create a distinct "account number"
for
my 2nd account and "move the shares" from the confusing number to the
non-confusing number. We'll see....

Doug
Doug - as I mentioned in this thread earlier this week, this happened to me,
I requested a change, and they did exactly what they said they were going to
do.
 
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G

Gus

Doug Ellice wrote:

(snip)
I phoned them once 10 days ago and they politely told me "that's our
system; suck it up". Frustrated, I tried again a few days later and was
more clear about why I was having a problem. Surprisingly, they agreed
to solve the problem. They will create a distinct "account number" for
my 2nd account and "move the shares" from the confusing number to the
non-confusing number. We'll see....
I had the same question/issue with Vanguard and was told the same thing.
A couple of days later everything had been straightened out, i.e., all
personal funds had one account no. and all the tax deferred ones had
another. They've kept it straight as I've bought & sold shares since.
 
S

scott s.

That option is still there, but it is not clear (to me, anyway)
whether the option pertains only to downloads initiated from
their web site (QIF or web-connect) or whether it applies to
one-step-update downloads as well.
I have a single Quicken "multiple mutual fund" investment
acct holding 4 Vanguard mutual funds and use the one-step
with PIN vault. I do not have any vanguard IRAs so can't help
there. I understand the concern.

scott s.
..
 
M

Mike Bredenkamp

We (my wife and I) have a joint account with multiple funds in it, we each
have a ROTH IRA with Vanguard, and my daughter have a custodial account. I
used Q2004 and online setup and it worked flawlessly... it downloads the
joint accounts, my ROTH, and my daughter's custodial account under my
userid and only my wife's ROTH under her userid. However when either of us
logs on, we can see our own ROTH and the joint account as well as the
custodial account.

I'm happy with the way things are...
Mike
 
D

Doug Ellice

Mike said:
We (my wife and I) have a joint account with multiple funds in it, we each
have a ROTH IRA with Vanguard, and my daughter have a custodial account.

The reason you are not experiencing the problem the rest of us are
discussing is that in your case no owner has multiple accounts. You
have one, your wife has one, the joint entity Mr&Mrs has one, and your
daughter has one.

If either you or your wife, for example, opened a Traditional IRA, you
would see what we're talking about....

Doug
 
W

William W. Plummer

Doug Ellice said:
The reason you are not experiencing the problem the rest of us are
discussing is that in your case no owner has multiple accounts. You
have one, your wife has one, the joint entity Mr&Mrs has one, and your
daughter has one.

If either you or your wife, for example, opened a Traditional IRA, you
would see what we're talking about....
I have a Trust account, a traditional IRA and a roll-over IRA. Each has a
separate Vanguard account number and transaction downloads now work just
fine. (Well, almost, but that's a different story.)
 
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T

The Michael

The reason you are not experiencing the problem the rest of us are
discussing is that in your case no owner has multiple accounts. You
have one, your wife has one, the joint entity Mr&Mrs has one, and your
daughter has one.

If either you or your wife, for example, opened a Traditional IRA, you
would see what we're talking about....
Doug, he and his wife both have IRAs (ROTH). My wife and I have IRAs (Traditional)
as well as multiiple other accounts; all with no download problems.
 
W

William W. Plummer

The Michael said:
Doug, he and his wife both have IRAs (ROTH). My wife and I have IRAs (Traditional)
as well as multiiple other accounts; all with no download problems.
Note: IRAs are no different from ordinary investment accounts. The
difference is only in the title of the account and how you handle tax
matters. Vanguard is not part of this.
 
D

Doug Ellice

The said:
Doug, he and his wife both have IRAs (ROTH). My wife and I have IRAs (Traditional)
as well as multiiple other accounts; all with no download problems.
I'm not making myself clear. His case is not similar to mine: no one
member of his family has 2 Vanguard accounts. He has one. She has one.
The entity Mr&MrsJTWROS owns one.

The problem I (and some others here) are discussing is that when one
person, or entity, owns more than one account - AND has different funds
in those accounts.

Doug
 
T

The Michael

see reply to your IRA post above (it appears you have ignored it). It DOES NOT cause
anyone but you a problem. Vanguard is out to get only YOU apparently.

The rest of us can all breath easy. This is not a Quicken matter at all.
 
D

Doug Ellice

The said:
see reply to your IRA post above (it appears you have ignored it). It DOES NOT cause
anyone but you a problem. Vanguard is out to get only YOU apparently.

The rest of us can all breath easy. This is not a Quicken matter at all.
I'm sorry, but one problem with newsgroups as opposed to CompuServe is
that messages don't have serial numbers. I'll go looking in a minute
for the reply you are talking about, and hope I find it.

But what's your problem? I'm not the only person here to report this
issue. It isn't like I'm doing something wrong. Admittedly, only a few
people will run into this, because only a few people will have more than
one Vanguard account. In my case, I have three: a traditional IRA, a
Roth IRA, a SEP-IRA. (The one non-IRA account I have at Vanguard is JT
with my spouse, so that does not enter into it, because that has a
different "form of ownership".)

And it IS a Quicken matter, because for Quicken to download the
transactions it needs the several investment positions in each account
to have a common, unique, "account number".

Vanguard eventually acknowleged to me that their normal numbering
practice does pose this problem for Quicken users, and they manually
adjusted my "account numbers" so that Quicken would no longer be confounded.

Sorry to have bothered you with all this.
Doug
 
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D

Doug Ellice

William said:
I have a Trust account, a traditional IRA and a roll-over IRA. Each has a
separate Vanguard account number and transaction downloads now work just
fine. (Well, almost, but that's a different story.)
My guess is that the trust account doesn't enter into this at all. Like
a joint account spouses might have, it is a unique "form of ownership"
distinct from an account in your own name alone.

But even if I'm correct about that, you say that you have 2 IRA accounts
in your own name and have not experienced the numbering problem I'm
talking about. Fair enough - Vanguard does what Vanguard does, and they
may have numbered your fund investments differently.

In my case, when I bought for what I'll call here "my second account"
shares in a Vanguard fund I already owned in "my first account", the
position got a different account number - as one would expect.

But when I bought for my second account shares in a fund I did NOT
already own in my first account, the position was numbered as if it was
part of the first account.

As I said previously, other people have reported the same thing, have
phoned Vanguard, and have gotten the numbers changed so that Quicke's
automatic download can keeps straight which shares are in which account.

Doug
 
T

The Michael

And it IS a Quicken matter, because for Quicken to download the
transactions it needs the several investment positions in each account
to have a common, unique, "account number".
What you are describing here is your problem with the account numbers Vanguard has
assigned to you. It is Vanguard you will want to talk to. Quicken users cannot help
you with this.
 
D

Doug Ellice

The said:
What you are describing here is your problem with the account numbers Vanguard has
assigned to you. It is Vanguard you will want to talk to. Quicken users cannot help
you with this.

Thank you for your advice. I have spoken to Vanguard, and they have
eliminated the problem with which their practice confronted Quicken.
Doug
 
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A

Andrew

The said:
What you are describing here is your problem with the account numbers
Vanguard has assigned to you. It is Vanguard you will want to talk
to. Quicken users cannot help you with this.
--
Sure Quicken users can help! Although Vanguard's numbering may not cause
problems for the vast majority of their account members, it certainly screws
us up!
And many times the average Quicken user might not understand the
implications and subtleties of the numbering schemes and download
procedures.

And having the ability for Quicken users who have already gone through this
pain and post their experiences and the fact that Vanguard, on demand, will
change the account numbers, certainly DOES help Quicken users.
 

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