Vanguard Account Shares Transferred to Admiral Class?


A

Andrew

What's the best way to transfer shares (new NAV and new symbol, but
preserving the cost basis) from one class of shares to another? I didn't
see a specific drop down box for this -- apparently Vanguard is lowering
their requirement to transfer shares to 'Admiral' class shares (lower cost
of ownership), and my brother is asking me.

Does is matter from Q's point of view if the account NUMBER is also
changing? I think he has each mutual fund in its own Q account vs. keeping
all in a single account if that matters? (I'll ultimately need to do that
myself in one account I think, but he has a one for one setup).

Thanks!
 
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C

Charlie K

What's the best way to transfer shares (new NAV and new symbol, but
preserving the cost basis)  from one class of shares to another? I didn't
see a specific drop down box for this -- apparently Vanguard is lowering
their requirement to transfer shares to 'Admiral' class shares (lower cost
of ownership), and my brother is asking me.

Does is matter from Q's point of view if the account NUMBER is also
changing?  I think he has each mutual fund in its own Q account vs. keeping
all in a single account if that matters?  (I'll ultimately need to do that
myself in one account I think, but he has a one for one setup).

Thanks!

--
I used stock split to do my conversions to Admiral shares. Some
people prefer corporate acquisition. Search "Admiral Shares" on this
group for exact procedures.
 
G

gk

I used stock split to do my conversions to Admiral shares.  Some
people prefer corporate acquisition. Search "Admiral Shares" on this
group for exact procedures.
Need explanation, please, on why just "Remove" Investor shares and
then "Add" Admiral shares wouldn't work.
That's how the transactions came downloaded from Vanguard.
Thanks.
 
A

Andrew

gk said:
Need explanation, please, on why just "Remove" Investor shares and
then "Add" Admiral shares wouldn't work.
That's how the transactions came downloaded from Vanguard.
Thanks.
Does that preserve the cost basis? I haven't run a test, but I doubt it.
 
J

John Pollard

Need explanation, please, on why just "Remove" Investor shares and
then "Add" Admiral shares wouldn't work.
That's how the transactions came downloaded from Vanguard.
And that's what the Quicken Corporate Acquisition uses. One Remove shares
transaction for all shares of the "acquired" company; one Add shares
transaction for each *lot* of the acquired company. Per account where the
"acquiring" company is held.

But if one had to do that manually, it could be a tedious exercise.

And when you didn't acquire all your shares from the fi that now holds
those shares ... that fi can't download the correct Add Shares
transactions (unless you made the effort to tell them about each lot you
ever bought, including via reinvestments).

A possible drawback to using Corporate Acquisition for a conversion is
that, the Corporate Acquisition "acquires" *all* shares in all accounts;
while sometimes a conversion only affects some of the shares owned. Even
then, it may sometimes be easier to delete unwanted Add Shares
transactions and modify incorrect Remove shares transactions, than to
manually enter the correct transactions.
 
J

John Pollard

Does that preserve the cost basis? I haven't run a test, but I doubt
it.
It does if you make sure you have one Add Shares transaction for each lot
purchased of the "acquired" company ... with the correct cost of the
original purchase in the Add Shares transaction.
 
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C

Charlie K

Does that preserve the cost basis?  I haven't run a test, but I doubt it.

--
Vanguard downloads one remove shares for all prior transactions and
one add shares per account. To preserve cost basis per transaction I
prefer the stock split. I've done this at least four times now. You
input prior share number, current share number and price. If you have
it in two accounts which are both being converted, like I did; chose
one to get the share numbers. It will convert both using the same
ratio. Then go to stock description and change the symbol to the
Admiral Share symbol. When it asks about price history, chose
default. You may be left with a rounding error. Mine was off .000015
in shares. I just Added Shares in that quantity at $0 so it matched
the new number. Prior lots will be to six decimal places instead of
three. I've learned to live with that.
 
C

Charlie K

It does if you make sure you have one Add Shares transaction for each lot
purchased of the "acquired" company ... with the correct cost of the
original purchase in the Add Shares transaction.
The problem John is Vanguard doesn't download it that way, which was
the original question. Accepting the Vanguard download just gets you
a total shares in and a total out. No cost association.
 
C

Charlie K

Need explanation, please, on why just "Remove" Investor shares and
then "Add" Admiral shares wouldn't work.
That's how the transactions came downloaded from Vanguard.
Thanks.
Vanguard downloads one remove shares for all prior transactions and
one add shares per account. To preserve cost basis per transaction I
prefer the stock split. I've done this at least four times now. You
input prior share number, current share number and price. If you
have
it in two accounts which are both being converted, like I did; chose
one to get the share numbers. It will convert both using the same
ratio. It converts the history like that also. Then go to stock
description and change the symbol to the Admiral Share symbol. When
it asks about price history, chose
default. You may be left with a rounding error. Mine was off .000015
in shares. I just Added Shares in that quantity at $0 so it matched
the new number. Prior lots will be to six decimal places instead of
three. I've learned to live with that.
 
J

John Pollard

Charlie said:
It does if you make sure you have one Add Shares transaction for
each lot purchased of the "acquired" company ... with the correct
cost of the original purchase in the Add Shares transaction.
[/QUOTE]
The problem John is Vanguard doesn't download it that way, which was
the original question. Accepting the Vanguard download just gets you
a total shares in and a total out. No cost association.
The question (by Andrew) that I answered was whether the Remove shares and
Add Shares retained the cost basis. As my *qualified* response said: it
does (when the Add Shares transactions contain the correct cost). The
question I answered didn't specifically ask if Vanguard downloaded correct
transactions and I did not attempt to address what Vanguard downloaded;
just the notion of whether Remove Shares/Add Shares could handle the
transaction. I made the requirement clear.

And I think I've said here before, that it's not likely that you can
expect investment fi's to consistently download transactions as you would
like them. Sometimes they can't. And sometimes they download them as
they should, from their perspective ... even if that isn't how the user
ultimately wants them recorded in Quicken.

I've learned to check what the fi downloads and adjust accordingly ...
including deleting downloaded transactions when there is no way to make
use of them. [If a Corporate Acquisition transaction had been done before
the download, the downloaded transactions should have "matched" the
Quicken generated transactions, and could have been Accepted with causing
any problem.]
 
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A

Andrew

John said:
The problem John is Vanguard doesn't download it that way, which was
the original question. Accepting the Vanguard download just gets you
a total shares in and a total out. No cost association.
The question (by Andrew) that I answered was whether the Remove
shares and Add Shares retained the cost basis. As my *qualified*
response said: it does (when the Add Shares transactions contain the
correct cost). The question I answered didn't specifically ask if
Vanguard downloaded correct transactions and I did not attempt to
address what Vanguard downloaded; just the notion of whether Remove
Shares/Add Shares could handle the transaction. I made the
requirement clear.
And I think I've said here before, that it's not likely that you can
expect investment fi's to consistently download transactions as you
would like them. Sometimes they can't. And sometimes they download
them as they should, from their perspective ... even if that isn't
how the user ultimately wants them recorded in Quicken.

I've learned to check what the fi downloads and adjust accordingly ...
including deleting downloaded transactions when there is no way to
make use of them. [If a Corporate Acquisition transaction had been
done before the download, the downloaded transactions should have
"matched" the Quicken generated transactions, and could have been
Accepted with causing any problem.]
FWIW, Vanguard's ADD SHARES and REMOVE SHARES did NOT retain cost basis (as
I expected would happen) when downloaded from Vanguard. The incoming
transaction has the net value of the outgoing transaction, and thus, no cost
basis was made. In fact, it is funny in that the ADD SHARES was processed
BEFORE the REMOVE SHARES when I did a ACCEPT ALL. I wonder if it would have
been reversed if I selected did the REMOVE SHARES first? No matter, the
correct value is still there when all is said and done.

I am not so sure personally I care. Any cost basis I ultimately report to
the IRS will be coming off of the Vanguard 1099B when I sell. In fact, I
think I remember reading recently that soon FIs are going to be required to
report cost basis to the IRS as well as just the proceeds as they do today.
 
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