what do they want?

[graham]

good morning!

i had a letter last week to say that HB were coming round to check on my
claim. i have been in reciept of HB for many years and despite recieving a
visit from them last year, want to come again this.

my problem is that i inherited some money (now spent) that i paid into my
bank account and then went on a shopping spree. i now have some new
furniture, tv, dvd player etc and am worried that HB have looked at my
accounts and think i'm claiming fraudulently. Afterall, if they get an idea
in their head it's a difficult thing to shake it.

thank you for any replies.

 

[Robbie]

good morning!

i had a letter last week to say that HB were coming round to check on my
claim. i have been in reciept of HB for many years and despite recieving a
visit from them last year, want to come again this.

my problem is that i inherited some money (now spent) that i paid into my
bank account and then went on a shopping spree. i now have some new
furniture, tv, dvd player etc and am worried that HB have looked at my
accounts and think i'm claiming fraudulently. Afterall, if they get an idea
in their head it's a difficult thing to shake it.

thank you for any replies.

Did you spend a sizeable sum? Was it more or less than 3 months ago? The
HB usually ask for bank account details from about the last 3 months. Of
course, any statement covering 3 months ago might also show a period
before this with the inheritance on it.

How did you pay for the goods? cash? If so, are there large and frequent
withdrawals from the account? Have you got the receipts?

When the inheritance went into your account, how much did you have in
your account at that point? Without any of the above details, it's a bit
difficult to give an answer. That said if you only inherited a small
amount and your account never rose above £5,000 for example then you
have nothing to worry about.

 

[graham]

Did you spend a sizeable sum? Was it more or less than 3 months ago?

sizeable for me. about £3,000

The HB usually ask for bank account details from about the last 3 months.
Of course, any statement covering 3 months ago might also show a period
before this with the inheritance on it.

i inherited the money between my last visit and this, any statement from the
last 3 months won't show this money. i was worried because of the new
furniture and electrical goods and i don't have any bank statements because
i shread them after i've looked at them. is there any reason they'd want to
look at my statements? i can get mini ones from the cashpoint.

How did you pay for the goods? cash? If so, are there large and frequent
withdrawals from the account? Have you got the receipts?

i don't have any reciepts to hand and i paid for most of them by credit card
and transferred the money from the account the money was in to my credit
card account.

When the inheritance went into your account, how much did you have in your
account at that point?

zero, almost.

Without any of the above details, it's a bit difficult to give an answer.
That said if you only inherited a small amount and your account never rose
above £5,000 for example then you have nothing to worry about.

no, i didn't inherit enough to put it above £5,000 but it's this statement
thing. i've been trying out a job for the last few weeks and i'm worried
they'll stop my claim. rather foolishly i haven't told them i'm trying this
out but before i started they did tell me i could try a job for a while to
see if it worked out. the last thing i want is to stop HB and then find i
cannot cope with the job.

 

[Robbie]

sizeable for me. about £3,000


i inherited the money between my last visit and this, any statement from the
last 3 months won't show this money. i was worried because of the new
furniture and electrical goods and i don't have any bank statements because
i shread them after i've looked at them. is there any reason they'd want to
look at my statements? i can get mini ones from the cashpoint.


i don't have any reciepts to hand and i paid for most of them by credit card
and transferred the money from the account the money was in to my credit
card account.


zero, almost.

I meant, how much did you have after the inheritance went in!

Up to 10 April 2006 you could have £3,000 in the bank and this would
have no effect on your benefit.

From 11 April 2006 this rose to £6,000.

If you had under those amounts at that time then you haven't got
anything to worry about. It's only if it was above these amounts that
benefit would begin to be affected.

no, i didn't inherit enough to put it above £5,000 but it's this statement
thing. i've been trying out a job for the last few weeks and i'm worried
they'll stop my claim. rather foolishly i haven't told them i'm trying this
out but before i started they did tell me i could try a job for a while to
see if it worked out. the last thing i want is to stop HB and then find i
cannot cope with the job.

Who told you that you could work? It's just you say "they". Do you mean
the Housing Benefit people? Are you in receipt of any other benefit? eg
Incapacity Benefit or Income Support, or both? If you are working you
have to inform the Incap or Income Support sections. If you receive
neither you have to tell the HB section if you earn money.

You will be asked if you have any income. If you are working and being
paid and you say "no" then that is making a fraudulent statement if you
sign it.

Again, advice depends on what other benefits apart from HB you are
receiving and if you are earning money in this job.

 

[graham]

I meant, how much did you have after the inheritance went in!

Up to 10 April 2006 you could have £3,000 in the bank and this would have
no effect on your benefit.

From 11 April 2006 this rose to £6,000.

it may have been more than 3,000 but certainly no more than 6,000.

Who told you that you could work? It's just you say "they". Do you mean
the Housing Benefit people?
yes

Are you in receipt of any other benefit? eg Incapacity Benefit or Income
Support, or both?

IB, i recieve no IS

If you are working you have to inform the Incap or Income Support
sections. If you receive neither you have to tell the HB section if you
earn money.

You will be asked if you have any income. If you are working and being
paid and you say "no" then that is making a fraudulent statement if you
sign it.

right. i better tell them on moday then. what would happen if i tell them
i'm earning money? would this affect my claim insomuch as i'd have to sign
off IB? i've been doing it for a few weeks now and do i get any grace or do
i have to pay back any money they (IB) paid me while i was earning money?

Again, advice depends on what other benefits apart from HB you are
receiving and if you are earning money in this job.

i am earning money but it would'nt be enough to support myself and pay rent
etc if i stopped benefits.

 

[Robbie]

it may have been more than 3,000 but certainly no more than 6,000.

You're drip feeding information! Without a clear answer I'm having to
answer 2 possible scenarios at once. Was it £6,000 before April 10? If
so, you have been potentially overpaid. The overpayment is worked out by
looking at how much you had in excess of £3,000 and then for every £250
you have in excess of £3000 taking £1 from weekly benefit. ie if you had
£4,000 then £4 per week would be taken from weekly benefit, although it
reduces over time. The HB people would then look at whether your
spending was reasonable to get your savings to the £3,000 limit. But
again, the crossover date of 10/04/06 is important - it really does
depend on when you got your inheritance. If you got the inheritance
after 10/04/06 then it doesn't make any difference to your benefit.

yes

They shouldn't have told you this then. Do you have it in writing?

IB, i recieve no IS

You get IB because you declare you can't work...

right. i better tell them on moday then. what would happen if i tell them
i'm earning money? would this affect my claim insomuch as i'd have to sign
off IB? i've been doing it for a few weeks now and do i get any grace or do
i have to pay back any money they (IB) paid me while i was earning money?

You need to contact the IB section on Monday and tell them all. How much
are you earning per week? There are 2 different schemes run by IB to
help people back to work. You can also earn a fair amount of money short
term which may not affect your IB. But all income is relevant for HB and
CTB. You are allowed to earn so much (it used to be £20 per week) then
HB and CTB reduces as income increases.

i am earning money but it would'nt be enough to support myself and pay rent
etc if i stopped benefits.

You might find you can be treated as still receiving IB but you should
really tell the IB in advance of stating work.

It is a bit of a minefield but the DWP and HB are there to work out what
you should get. You just have to tell them when you start work and how
much you earn. By not disclosing things it creates problems down the line.

If your income is low you can still claim HB and CTB. If you have been
on the sick for a year or more you may qualify for Working Tax Credit.

 

[graham]

You're drip feeding information! Without a clear answer I'm having to
answer 2 possible scenarios at once. Was it £6,000 before April 10?

no, i recieved a cheque for 3,000 and there may have been two hundred pounds
in my account at the time. within a matter of a month it was nearly all
gone.

They shouldn't have told you this then. Do you have it in writing?

i don't have it in writing. it was when i was looking at all the adverts you
get promising training and a job at the end of it at your local college.

You need to contact the IB section on Monday and tell them all. How much
are you earning per week?

quite a bit. 350 a week but i don't know how long i will be there or if i
will need to leave at a moment's notice.

There are 2 different schemes run by IB to help people back to work. You
can also earn a fair amount of money short term which may not affect your
IB. But all income is relevant for HB and CTB. You are allowed to earn so
much (it used to be £20 per week) then HB and CTB reduces as income
increases.

that isn't so bad then. if i declare these earnings and i can keep my
benefit if and when i leave work i don't mind that. the thing is i'm off
sick for mental health reasons and i do feel better working but the work i
am doing is very manual and heavy and i am finding i may have to stop
because it is hurting my back - a different reason for being off entirely!

If your income is low you can still claim HB and CTB. If you have been on
the sick for a year or more you may qualify for Working Tax Credit.

ok. just briefly what's working tax credit? do i get paid to work or do i
not have to pay tax?

 

[Robbie]

no, i recieved a cheque for 3,000 and there may have been two hundred pounds
in my account at the time. within a matter of a month it was nearly all
gone.

There's a potential overpayment of £1! Not even worth persuing. The
other matter though is...

i don't have it in writing. it was when i was looking at all the adverts you
get promising training and a job at the end of it at your local college.

quite a bit. 350 a week but i don't know how long i will be there or if i
will need to leave at a moment's notice.


that isn't so bad then. if i declare these earnings and i can keep my
benefit if and when i leave work i don't mind that. the thing is i'm off
sick for mental health reasons and i do feel better working but the work i
am doing is very manual and heavy and i am finding i may have to stop
because it is hurting my back - a different reason for being off entirely!


ok. just briefly what's working tax credit? do i get paid to work or do i
not have to pay tax?

If you are earning £350 a week then your IB will stop. You can claim
Working Tax Credit based on your income from the past full tax year to
April 06. Unless your rent is very high I doubt you'd get HB and almost
certainly no CTB.

Obviously it depends where you live in the country but £350 a week to
most people is a decent wage and people bring up children on less than
that. And pay full rent! I get less than that and manage to get by.

If you had been on IB for a year you could have kept entitlement to IB
for 1 year if things didn't work out ie your level of IB would be
protected. But I believe you have to tell the IB section when you start
work to be covered by that, not weeks later. Without sounding harsh, you
are committing fraud, and I think you know that. How are you paid?
Surely your wages go into the bank? Therefore surely your wages will be
on your bank statement? How long have you worked there? If you have just
recently started it's not a terminal situation - you could bluff your
way out of it and tell the IB section you start today and hope they buy
it. If you have worked there for weeks and have been paid wages and NI
conts, tax etc you really need to get off IB asap before you are
investigated for benefit fraud.

 

[graham]

graham wrote:
If you are earning £350 a week then your IB will stop. You can claim
Working Tax Credit based on your income from the past full tax year to
April 06. Unless your rent is very high I doubt you'd get HB and almost
certainly no CTB.
ok.

Obviously it depends where you live in the country but £350 a week to most
people is a decent wage and people bring up children on less than that.
And pay full rent! I get less than that and manage to get by.

If you had been on IB for a year you could have kept entitlement to IB for
1 year if things didn't work out ie your level of IB would be protected.
But I believe you have to tell the IB section when you start work to be
covered by that, not weeks later. Without sounding harsh, you are
committing fraud, and I think you know that. How are you paid? Surely your
wages go into the bank? Therefore surely your wages will be on your bank
statement?

yes, that's what i'm worried about. can they insist on seeing statements if
there appears to be nothing wrong with my claim (see below)

How long have you worked there? If you have just recently started it's not
a terminal situation - you could bluff your way out of it and tell the IB
section you start today and hope they buy it. If you have worked there for
weeks and have been paid wages and NI conts, tax etc you really need to
get off IB asap before you are investigated for benefit fraud.

i've been there a number of weeks and yes i have paid tax and ni but like i
said before the job is proving detrimental to my health so i'm rather hoping
i can leave work and they'll either not notice or worst case i have to pay
back any over payment.

 

[Robbie]

ok.

I also meant to say, the scheme that lets you work short term and keep
your IB allows you to earn something like £75 or so a week. I think
the limit is the limit at which you would be liable for NI
contributions.

yes, that's what i'm worried about. can they insist on seeing statements if
there appears to be nothing wrong with my claim (see below)


i've been there a number of weeks and yes i have paid tax and ni but likei
said before the job is proving detrimental to my health so i'm rather hoping
i can leave work and they'll either not notice or worst case i have to pay
back any over payment.

This i the reason why there is a 12 month benefit protection for people
who have been long term sick. It allows you to try out a job without
the risk of going back on the sick at the lowest level of IB.

But as for them not noticing, again it firstly depends where your wages
were paid to (ie your bank) and secondly if the DWP pick up on the fact
that you have NI credits and contributions overlapping. Additionally,
if you wnet sick at work you could have the awkard problem of receiving
IB and SSP You'd be better off coming off benefit and trying to do this
legit rather than hope no-one picks up on it, eventually they will. The
other alternative is to give up work.

Robbie

 

[graham]

"Robbie" <[email protected]> wrote in message

This i the reason why there is a 12 month benefit protection for people
who have been long term sick. It allows you to try out a job without
the risk of going back on the sick at the lowest level of IB.

But as for them not noticing, again it firstly depends where your wages
were paid to (ie your bank)

Yes, into my bank

and secondly if the DWP pick up on the fact

that you have NI credits and contributions overlapping. Additionally,
if you wnet sick at work you could have the awkard problem of receiving
IB and SSP You'd be better off coming off benefit and trying to do this
legit rather than hope no-one picks up on it, eventually they will. The
other alternative is to give up work.

I've gone and done the decent thing. The man came round and filled a form in
to say there were noi changes to my circumstances but I stopped him said
that actually there were. He changed the sheet and then said I had to give
the address on a lettter he gave me 2 months' worth of payslips or a letter
from my employer stating how long I'd been there and how much I was earning
so now I've started the ball rolling, I really don't think the option of
giving up work is a viable one...

Robbie