what is magnetic media


R

removeps-groups

I was reading the unemployment and housing credit extension act that
was just passed (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3548/text). It
looks like starting Jan/2011, all tax returns prepared by preparers
have to be eFiled -- I guess that's what "magnetic media" means. What
is the penalty is the tax preparer does not comply? What if the
federal return cannot be eFiled? What if the client chooses to not
use eFile?


‘(3) SPECIAL RULE FOR TAX RETURN PREPARERS-CommentsClose
CommentsPermalink

‘(A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall require than any
individual income tax return prepared by a tax return preparer be
filed on magnetic media if--CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(i) such return is filed by such tax return
preparer, andCommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(ii) such tax return preparer is a specified
tax return preparer for the calendar year during which such return is
filed.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(B) SPECIFIED TAX RETURN PREPARER- For purposes of
this paragraph, the term ‘specified tax return preparer’ means, with
respect to any calendar year, any tax return preparer unless such
preparer reasonably expects to file 10 or fewer individual income tax
returns during such calendar year.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(C) INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX RETURN- For purposes of
this paragraph, the term ‘individual income tax return’ means any
return of the tax imposed by subtitle A on individuals, estates, or
trusts.’.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(b) Conforming Amendment- Paragraph (1) of section 6011(e) of the
Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by striking ‘The Secretary
may not’ and inserting ‘Except as provided in paragraph (3), the
Secretary may not’.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(c) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to
returns filed after December 31, 2010.
 
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D

D. Stussy

I was reading the unemployment and housing credit extension act that
was just passed (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3548/text). It
looks like starting Jan/2011, all tax returns prepared by preparers
have to be eFiled -- I guess that's what "magnetic media" means. What
is the penalty is the tax preparer does not comply? What if the
federal return cannot be eFiled? What if the client chooses to not
use eFile?


‘(3) SPECIAL RULE FOR TAX RETURN PREPARERS-CommentsClose
CommentsPermalink

‘(A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall require than any
individual income tax return prepared by a tax return preparer be
filed on magnetic media if--CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(i) such return is filed by such tax return
preparer, andCommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(ii) such tax return preparer is a specified
tax return preparer for the calendar year during which such return is
filed.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(B) SPECIFIED TAX RETURN PREPARER- For purposes of
this paragraph, the term ‘specified tax return preparer’ means, with
respect to any calendar year, any tax return preparer unless such
preparer reasonably expects to file 10 or fewer individual income tax
returns during such calendar year.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(C) INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX RETURN- For purposes of
this paragraph, the term ‘individual income tax return’ means any
return of the tax imposed by subtitle A on individuals, estates, or
trusts.’.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(b) Conforming Amendment- Paragraph (1) of section 6011(e) of the
Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by striking ‘The Secretary
may not’ and inserting ‘Except as provided in paragraph (3), the
Secretary may not’.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

(c) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to
returns filed after December 31, 2010.
Magnetic media means a floppy disk (including the 3.5" hard-cased
floppies), or 9T-tape. A wire/modem transfer has no magnetic medium and is
therefore excluded. This might include the older 5.25" floppies, but
usually doesn't include the oldest 8" floppies unless it specifically says
so

If they wanted "Internet or phone" transmissions, they would have said "by
electronic means" instead of "on magnetic media."

This language actually KILLS "e-file" that we've had since 1990 (for 1989
returns in pilot program areas).
 
R

removeps-groups

Magnetic media means a floppy disk (including the 3.5" hard-cased
floppies), or 9T-tape.  A wire/modem transfer has no magnetic medium and is
therefore excluded.  This might include the older 5.25" floppies, but
usually doesn't include the oldest 8" floppies unless it specifically says
so
This sounds ridiculous. Hardly anyone I know uses 3.5" floppies any
more. Most everything is on hard drives, and sometimes the hard drive
is on a remote computer.
If they wanted "Internet or phone" transmissions, they would have said "by
electronic means" instead of "on magnetic media."

This language actually KILLS "e-file" that we've had since 1990 (for 1989
returns in pilot program areas).
Why would they want to kill eFile? Isn't that what everyone pretty
much uses these days?
 
D

D. Stussy

This sounds ridiculous. Hardly anyone I know uses 3.5" floppies any
more. Most everything is on hard drives, and sometimes the hard drive
is on a remote computer.


Why would they want to kill eFile? Isn't that what everyone pretty
much uses these days?
I don't know, but you are correct that the bill actually mandates "magnetic
media." I looked up the final version that Obama signed yesterday. That
would also rule out USB flash-drives and flash-cards, as those are
silicon-based non-magnetic media. I think Congress was trying to be smart
but designated the wrong thing.

I plan on raising this issue in my tax update class in 3 weeks from
tomorrow. However, it is clear that the language used EXCLUDES electronic
wire transmission - as there is no medium storing the data, and would also
exclude CD/DVD media (since they are optical, not magnetic). I also noted
no provision for the Secretary (or his designate) to permit other types -
ONLY "magnetic media" is permitted.

There are probably some income tax returns that cannot fit on a floppy
disk. What are we supposed to do with those - send a hard drive?
 
L

LoTax

Unbelievable. UFB. Is this a hoax, a prank to see who's in the 21st
century yet? Can Congress possibly be so out of it? "Magnetic Media"
is how payroll information was required to be sent to the Social
Security Administration. In West By-God Virginia. In a previous
*millennium* yet!!!
 
H

HLunsford

LoTax said:
Unbelievable. UFB. Is this a hoax, a prank to see who's in the 21st
century yet? Can Congress possibly be so out of it? "Magnetic Media"
is how payroll information was required to be sent to the Social
Security Administration. In West By-God Virginia. In a previous
*millennium* yet!!!
It is a puzzlement, to be sure.

The inclusion of the term magnetic media was evidently by some staff
member who didn't realize that even that is not done these days.

(However I was looking in back room last week for a certain 3 1/2 inch
floppy perchance it had an old spreadsheet on it, and it did. I have
about 30 of these old floppies on hand just in case they're need per
this new bill.) (grin)

The other hangup with the language used speaks of tax preparers who file
tax returns. Now we all know that only taxpayers "file" returns, and
that certain tax preparers who are also ERO's accept client signatures
on documents which allow them to transmit returns to IRS; NOT to file them.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
 
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D

Dan Lanciani

| | > On Nov 9, 8:00 pm, "D. Stussy" <[email protected]>
| > wrote:
| > > > I was reading the unemployment and housing credit extension act that
| > > > was just passed (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3548/text). It
| > > > looks like starting Jan/2011, all tax returns prepared by preparers
| > > > have to be eFiled -- I guess that's what "magnetic media" means. What
| > > > is the penalty is the tax preparer does not comply? What if the
| > > > federal return cannot be eFiled? What if the client chooses to not
| > > > use eFile?
| > >
| > > > (3) SPECIAL RULE FOR TAX RETURN PREPARERS
| > >
| > > > (A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall require than any
| > > > individual income tax return prepared by a tax return preparer be
| > > > filed on magnetic media if--
| > >
| > > > (i) such return is filed by such tax return
| > > > preparer, and
| > >
| > > > (ii) such tax return preparer is a specified
| > > > tax return preparer for the calendar year during which such return is
| > > > filed.
| >
| > > Magnetic media means a floppy disk (including the 3.5" hard-cased
| > > floppies), or 9T-tape. A wire/modem transfer has no magnetic medium and
| is
| > > therefore excluded. This might include the older 5.25" floppies, but
| > > usually doesn't include the oldest 8" floppies unless it specifically
| says
| > > so
| >
| > This sounds ridiculous. Hardly anyone I know uses 3.5" floppies any
| > more. Most everything is on hard drives, and sometimes the hard drive
| > is on a remote computer.
| >
| > > If they wanted "Internet or phone" transmissions, they would have said
| "by
| > > electronic means" instead of "on magnetic media."
| > >
| > > This language actually KILLS "e-file" that we've had since 1990 (for
| 1989
| > > returns in pilot program areas).
| >
| > Why would they want to kill eFile? Isn't that what everyone pretty
| > much uses these days?
|
| I don't know, but you are correct that the bill actually mandates "magnetic
| media." I looked up the final version that Obama signed yesterday. That
| would also rule out USB flash-drives and flash-cards, as those are
| silicon-based non-magnetic media. I think Congress was trying to be smart
| but designated the wrong thing.
|
| I plan on raising this issue in my tax update class in 3 weeks from
| tomorrow. However, it is clear that the language used EXCLUDES electronic
| wire transmission - as there is no medium storing the data, and would also
| exclude CD/DVD media (since they are optical, not magnetic). I also noted
| no provision for the Secretary (or his designate) to permit other types -
| ONLY "magnetic media" is permitted.
|
| There are probably some income tax returns that cannot fit on a floppy
| disk. What are we supposed to do with those - send a hard drive?

I still have 9-track tape drives if anybody wants to go that route.
I can even go as low as 800bpi density for maximum backwards
compatibility...

Dan Lanciani
[email protected]*com
 
D

D. Stussy

LoTax said:
Unbelievable. UFB. Is this a hoax, a prank to see who's in the 21st
century yet? Can Congress possibly be so out of it? "Magnetic Media"
is how payroll information was required to be sent to the Social
Security Administration. In West By-God Virginia. In a previous
*millennium* yet!!!
Unfortunately, it's NOT. HR 3548 - now PL 111-92, section 17.

Tax year 2009 (timely filed including extensions) is the last year of
e-file.

After December 31, 2010, ALL income tax returns prepared by a preparer who
does 11+ per calendar year must be filed on magnetic media. I read this as
including PAST year [delinquent] returns and possibly amended returns as
well. There are no waivers. There is no discretion, not even by the
Secretary (or his designate).
 
D

D. Stussy

Dan Lanciani said:
| | > On Nov 9, 8:00 pm, "D. Stussy" <[email protected]>
| > wrote:
| > > > I was reading the unemployment and housing credit extension act that
| > > > was just passed
(http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3548/text). It
| > > > looks like starting Jan/2011, all tax returns prepared by preparers
| > > > have to be eFiled -- I guess that's what "magnetic media" means. What
| > > > is the penalty is the tax preparer does not comply? What if the
| > > > federal return cannot be eFiled? What if the client chooses to not
| > > > use eFile?
| > >
| > > > (3) SPECIAL RULE FOR TAX RETURN PREPARERS
| > >
| > > > (A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall require than any
| > > > individual income tax return prepared by a tax return preparer be
| > > > filed on magnetic media if--
| > >
| > > > (i) such return is filed by such tax return
| > > > preparer, and
| > >
| > > > (ii) such tax return preparer is a specified
| > > > tax return preparer for the calendar year during which such return is
| > > > filed.
| >
| > > Magnetic media means a floppy disk (including the 3.5" hard-cased
| > > floppies), or 9T-tape. A wire/modem transfer has no magnetic medium and
| is
| > > therefore excluded. This might include the older 5.25" floppies, but
| > > usually doesn't include the oldest 8" floppies unless it specifically
| says
| > > so
| >
| > This sounds ridiculous. Hardly anyone I know uses 3.5" floppies any
| > more. Most everything is on hard drives, and sometimes the hard drive
| > is on a remote computer.
| >
| > > If they wanted "Internet or phone" transmissions, they would have said
| "by
| > > electronic means" instead of "on magnetic media."
| > >
| > > This language actually KILLS "e-file" that we've had since 1990 (for
| 1989
| > > returns in pilot program areas).
| >
| > Why would they want to kill eFile? Isn't that what everyone pretty
| > much uses these days?
|
| I don't know, but you are correct that the bill actually mandates "magnetic
| media." I looked up the final version that Obama signed yesterday. That
| would also rule out USB flash-drives and flash-cards, as those are
| silicon-based non-magnetic media. I think Congress was trying to be smart
| but designated the wrong thing.
|
| I plan on raising this issue in my tax update class in 3 weeks from
| tomorrow. However, it is clear that the language used EXCLUDES electronic
| wire transmission - as there is no medium storing the data, and would also
| exclude CD/DVD media (since they are optical, not magnetic). I also noted
| no provision for the Secretary (or his designate) to permit other types -
| ONLY "magnetic media" is permitted.
|
| There are probably some income tax returns that cannot fit on a floppy
| disk. What are we supposed to do with those - send a hard drive?

I still have 9-track tape drives if anybody wants to go that route.
I can even go as low as 800bpi density for maximum backwards
compatibility...
....But do you have a working IBM/360 series mainframe to control the tape
drive from?

(A system 370, 3080-series, or 9370 will do just as well, and so will their
clones; e.g. Amdahl 680).
 
B

Bill Brown

Can you say SNAFU? Can you say FUBAR? Can you say Concgress Critters
In Action?
 
D

D. Stussy

URL: http://tax.cchgroup.com/news/headlines/2009/nws11609.htm#1

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi ... praised the tax provisions in the bill,
calling it a down-payment on the future for middle-class Americans."

Figures. Only she would call a backwards movement "the future."

However, shame on CCH for not mentioning at all the filing requirement in
their summary.
 
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M

Mark Bole

D. Stussy said:
(A system 370, 3080-series, or 9370 will do just as well, and so will their
clones; e.g. Amdahl 680).
Oooh, I worked on a 9370 for a project once! Not a commercially
successful product for IBM, as I recall...

-Mark Bole
 
D

dpb

Mark said:
Oooh, I worked on a 9370 for a project once! Not a commercially
successful product for IBM, as I recall...
Or for that matter a CDC or DEC or VAX... :)

I still have the cases of several of the old Philco 2000 7-track drives
as server racks... :)

--
 
D

Dan Lanciani

| | > In article <[email protected]>, (e-mail address removed)
| (D. Stussy) writes:

(snip)

| > | There are probably some income tax returns that cannot fit on a floppy
| > | disk. What are we supposed to do with those - send a hard drive?
| >
| > I still have 9-track tape drives if anybody wants to go that route.
| > I can even go as low as 800bpi density for maximum backwards
| > compatibility...
|
| ...But do you have a working IBM/360 series mainframe to control the tape
| drive from?

No, but I have other working machines to control the tape drives. N.B.
I'm not offering to do data processing for you. I will simply put your
data on the tape in whatever format (within reason--I can't do unlimited
length records easily anymore) you specify.

Dan Lanciani
[email protected]*com
 
D

D. Stussy

Dan Lanciani said:
| | > In article <[email protected]>, (e-mail address removed)
| (D. Stussy) writes:

(snip)

| > | There are probably some income tax returns that cannot fit on a floppy
| > | disk. What are we supposed to do with those - send a hard drive?
| >
| > I still have 9-track tape drives if anybody wants to go that route.
| > I can even go as low as 800bpi density for maximum backwards
| > compatibility...
|
| ...But do you have a working IBM/360 series mainframe to control the tape
| drive from?

No, but I have other working machines to control the tape drives. N.B.
I'm not offering to do data processing for you. I will simply put your
data on the tape in whatever format (within reason--I can't do unlimited
length records easily anymore) you specify.
I plan on using floppy disks. When I run out of 3.5"'s, I'll start using
5.25"'s.
 
P

paulthomascpa

HLunsford said:
The inclusion of the term magnetic media was evidently by some staff
member who didn't realize that even that is not done these days.

(However I was looking in back room last week for a certain 3 1/2 inch
floppy perchance it had an old spreadsheet on it, and it did. I have
about 30 of these old floppies on hand just in case they're need per this
new bill.) (grin)



And so....you'll auction them off? On e-Bay maybe?

And will they sell for cash or scotch?
 
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P

paulthomascpa

D. Stussy said:
Unfortunately, it's NOT. HR 3548 - now PL 111-92, section 17.

Tax year 2009 (timely filed including extensions) is the last year of
e-file.

After December 31, 2010, ALL income tax returns prepared by a preparer who
does 11+ per calendar year must be filed on magnetic media.





Just be glad it's not applicable to information returns.

Wouldn't you hate to get all those W-2 and 1099 forms on floppies too?

And then, I take it to mean that we don't have to do this for the corporate
tax returns, 990's, 5500's. Just individual returns.
 
S

Stuart A. Bronstein

D. Stussy said:
Unfortunately, it's NOT. HR 3548 - now PL 111-92, section 17.

After December 31, 2010, ALL income tax returns prepared by a
preparer who does 11+ per calendar year must be filed on
magnetic media.
Actually that's a slight misreading of the statute. The final
legislation as a public law is not yet available on congress's gpo
website. But here is what appears to be the final version after
passed by Congress:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:5:./temp/~c111IAhMEA::

What it says, among other things, is that under certain
circumstances, "The Secretary shall require than any individual
income tax return prepared by a tax return preparer be filed on
magnetic media...."

In other words the treasury is required to promulgate regulations
concerning "electronic returns." I believe courts would uphold any
regulation that interprets "magnetic media" to mean electronically
stored data.
 
C

Chip

Dan said:
| > | There are probably some income tax returns that cannot fit on a floppy
| > | disk. What are we supposed to do with those - send a hard drive?
| >
| > I still have 9-track tape drives if anybody wants to go that route.
| > I can even go as low as 800bpi density for maximum backwards
| > compatibility...
|
| ...But do you have a working IBM/360 series mainframe to control the tape
| drive from?

No, but I have other working machines to control the tape drives. N.B.
I'm not offering to do data processing for you. I will simply put your
data on the tape in whatever format (within reason--I can't do unlimited
length records easily anymore) you specify.
Do you think the IRS still has tape machines to read them?

Chip
 
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