What will happen?


E

ex WGS Hamm

My brother who owns his own home and works full time and has never claimed
any kind of benefit. lived with a woman who deiced her ship had come in when
she met him and stopped work.
He paid for everything, including the purchase of her shiny newish BMW.
She lived with him for 3 years, until he went on holiday with some mates,
came back, and discovered she had cleared his house ad buggered off. Police
aren't interested as apparently she was his common law wife. She took photo
albums of his kiddies, items he had had since he was a child and other
stuff. She wiped files from his computer too. Turns out that the whole time
she was with him she was also claiming income support. He never knew about
this and was supporting her thinking that his was the sole income and she
had nothing, hence him paying all her bills etc.
DSS have contacted him about this.She apparently denied she was lliving with
him as a common law wife and he was not supporting her.
Recently he was doing some work on his PC and discovered some files which
prove he was paying for her and indeed living as man and wife for the last 3
years.
So what will happen?
Obviously I will be happy if she gets done big time. Either way she cannot
win. If she says she was living as man and wife, DSS have her, and if she
claims she was a lodger, he can go to the police and have her charged with
the theft of his belongings.
 
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C

Colin Wilson

She wiped files from his computer too.
Recently he was doing some work on his PC and discovered some files which
prove he was paying for her and indeed living as man and wife for the last 3
years.
I can`t help as far as the fraudulent behaviour she`s been up to, but...

Deleted files are usually recoverable quite easily, with some provisos :

a) stop using the machine immediately, as any data may overwrite what
you`re trying to recover

b) don`t install anything on the drive

c) take it along to someone who can do the recovery for you by either
getting a proper mirror of the entire drive, or by hooking it up to a
seperate setup that already has undelete / recovery utils installed.
 
E

ex WGS Hamm

Colin Wilson said:
I can`t help as far as the fraudulent behaviour she`s been up to, but...

Deleted files are usually recoverable quite easily, with some provisos :

a) stop using the machine immediately, as any data may overwrite what
you`re trying to recover

b) don`t install anything on the drive

c) take it along to someone who can do the recovery for you by either
getting a proper mirror of the entire drive, or by hooking it up to a
seperate setup that already has undelete / recovery utils installed.
I think this is what he did to discover the files, as he works for the MOD
(very hush hush) something to do with computers and is knowledgeable.
 
A

A. Fraudster

ex WGS Hamm said:
I think this is what he did to discover the files, as he works for the MOD
(very hush hush) something to do with computers and is knowledgeable.
Anybody can create a computer file, this is not acceptable evidence.

I think now that he will fare a lot better if he can provide DNA evidence.
 
M

Mike

A. Fraudster said:
Anybody can create a computer file, this is not acceptable evidence.

I think now that he will fare a lot better if he can provide DNA evidence.
I hope he hasn't done the laundry then!!!!

A computer file is evidence, however must be supported. The DWP
presumably know she was living at the address and his statement alone
will be sufficient for the DWP to nil her claim forthe duration calc an
overpayment on her claim.

Alone this won't be sufficient for a fraud prosecution but a few paid
bills might. For example, if he can prove he bought & maintained the
car for her, and it's reg and insured in her name there is material
(although not conclusive) evidence of their relationship. A few more
bits and bobs like that and their well on the way to a prosecution.

Have they ever taken a holiday together and shared a room, any time they
have ever presented themselves as a couple is all evidence to support
the files and his statement.

The DWP would be keen to prosecute if your brother is prepared to
co-operate fully and can provide financial evidence, a few friends or
relatives who can testify to their relationship would be icing on the
cake.

The DNA evidence is un-necessary.

Mike
 
E

ex WGS Hamm

Mike said:
A computer file is evidence, however must be supported. The DWP
presumably know she was living at the address and his statement alone
will be sufficient for the DWP to nil her claim forthe duration calc an
overpayment on her claim.

Alone this won't be sufficient for a fraud prosecution but a few paid
bills might. For example, if he can prove he bought & maintained the
car for her, and it's reg and insured in her name there is material
(although not conclusive) evidence of their relationship. A few more
bits and bobs like that and their well on the way to a prosecution.
The DSS lady took away the files. I am not sure exactly what were in them
but evidence of his paying for bills seems to be one of the things that was.
Have they ever taken a holiday together and shared a room,
Yes and he has lots of photographs of them together on holiday.
any time they
have ever presented themselves as a couple is all evidence to >support
the files and his statement. Will tell him.

The DWP would be keen to prosecute if your brother is prepared to
co-operate fully and can provide financial evidence, a few friends or
relatives who can testify to their relationship would be icing on the
cake.
I have told him that I will be happy to testify.
The DNA evidence is un-necessary.
:)
 
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A

A. Fraudster

ex WGS Hamm said:
The DSS lady took away the files. I am not sure exactly what were in them
but evidence of his paying for bills seems to be one of the things that was.
Yes and he has lots of photographs of them together on holiday.

I have told him that I will be happy to testify.
:)
This is very easy to prove if your brother kept his documentation in order,
her details are on the electoral roll and will show what address she is or
was living at for the last 3 years, no doubt the DWP can verify her address
using the same records.
 
M

Mike

This is very easy to prove if your brother kept his documentation in order,
her details are on the electoral roll and will show what address she is or
was living at for the last 3 years, no doubt the DWP can verify her address
using the same records.
Proving she lived there does not invalidate her claim, the DWP has to
show they were living together as husband and wife (LTAHAW).

There are 6 key factors which establish a relationship:

1) Presence (actually living in the same property)
2) Financial (the degree and how their finances are emeshed)
3) Sexual
4) Emotional
5) Children (not just parentage but how childcare and decisions are taken)
6) Perception (are they perceived as a couple by friends relatives;
other 3rd parties)

Not all relationships are the same, and no factor proves (or disproves!)
that a LTAHAW situation exists, they are all indicators.

By the sound of it the only thing missing was the sprogs, and with one
partner stating they were LTAHAW the decision is certain, prosecution
not so easy though.

Mike
 
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E

ex WGS Hamm

Mike said:
Proving she lived there does not invalidate her claim, the DWP has to
show they were living together as husband and wife (LTAHAW).

There are 6 key factors which establish a relationship:

1) Presence (actually living in the same property)
2) Financial (the degree and how their finances are emeshed)
3) Sexual
4) Emotional
5) Children (not just parentage but how childcare and decisions are taken)
6) Perception (are they perceived as a couple by friends relatives;
other 3rd parties)

Not all relationships are the same, and no factor proves (or disproves!)
that a LTAHAW situation exists, they are all indicators.

By the sound of it the only thing missing was the sprogs, and with one
partner stating they were LTAHAW the decision is certain, prosecution
not so easy though.
spoke to my brother today and he says they took away bank stuff, details of
him paying for things, letters from her on his PC telling DVLC and other
official bodies of her new address, photos of them together on holiday. Plus
he told them that she has told the police that she never stole his stuff as
technically it was hers too as they were cohabiting.Also gave names of
friends who knew they were living together as a couple and of course I will
say so too.
Apparently this isn't the first time she has pulled a stunt like this
either, living with a chap and then clearing off leaving the house empty. I
hope they throw the book at her.
 

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